911 C4S and E46 M3

[djohnson]

I've had my 996 C4S (the post facelift 3.6 320 bhp one) for about 6 months now. On paper it is about the same performance as my old 2003 E46 M3 (give or take a little bit). However I still maintain that it doesn't feel quite as quick in a straight line as the M3 did. It does deliver the power in a slightly more linear way so I guess it could be that. Has anyone else found the same thing? Is it worth getting the power output checked?

Thanks

[Framps]

I had an M3 on my tail in my C4S and was happliy pulling away from him in the wet. Not sure about the stats but the 4 wheel drive certainly seemed to be making a difference. Not so sure about the dry comparison.

[1jeb]

djohnson said:

I've had my 996 C4S (the post facelift 3.6 320 bhp one) for about 6 months now. On paper it is about the same performance as my old 2003 E46 M3 (give or take a little bit). However I still maintain that it doesn't feel quite as quick in a straight line as the M3 did. It does deliver the power in a slightly more linear way so I guess it could be that. Has anyone else found the same thing? Is it worth getting the power output checked?

Thanks

Was it an SMGII?? They feel very fast when they "bang" into gear. Especially with the launch control.

[Adam B]

driven both and very similar in a straight line I thought

4S has obvious advantage in the wet given 4wd and DSC interfering too much v PSM (IMHO)

[nbetts]

djohnson said:

I've had my 996 C4S (the post facelift 3.6 320 bhp one) for about 6 months now. On paper it is about the same performance as my old 2003 E46 M3 (give or take a little bit). However I still maintain that it doesn't feel quite as quick in a straight line as the M3 did. It does deliver the power in a slightly more linear way so I guess it could be that. Has anyone else found the same thing? Is it worth getting the power output checked?

Thanks

I think your perception sounds about what I have experienced in the past as well. The M3 does 'feel' a bit quicker. To be fair both cars are about the same pace, the C4S has better urgency off the line, which would put you about a bonnet or two in front... and there I think they stay... ultimately I think the 996 would gradually creep away as I think it has slightly better aerodynamics (wide body C4S might be worse than M3).

Close call - If a E46 can pace match a 996 Facelift it would be a C4S/C2 Targa.

[rob05]

The M3 is the faster car in a straight line and definitely quicker than a C4 which is slower than a C2 regardless of Porsche's own figures.
I had my car against my mates 997s just the other day and there was nothing in it the 997 was a car length quicker and it stayed that way up to 150 then we called it a day.
You will find as i have that once you start comparing cars with roughly the same bhp there is never much in it unless the car weighs nothing.

Edited by rob05 on Thursday 17th August 15:25

[Iceboy]

Gotta agree with Rob05 here !

When I had the M3, the C2's and 4's could never pull away....alot also depends on the driver.

Saying all that.......996 is next on my shopping list....you just can't beat the feeling or driving such a machine.

[Iceboy]

Gotta agree with Rob05 here !

When I had the M3, the C2's and 4's could never pull away....alot also depends on the driver.

Saying all that.......996 is next on my shopping list....you just can't beat the feeling of driving such a machine.

[Thunderfoot]

I've pulled away from a couple of M3's in my C2, not by much, but after 90mph I seem to edge away.

Was put off owning a C4S after getting behind one and keeping up with utter ease, there seemed to be a greater difference than I thought possible. It could have been a tip with a fat crap driver behind the wheel, but still, I was a little surprised.

[rob05]

I have owned both and M3 is quicker than my old C2 but more importantly its feels very stable at high speed where my C2 was a hand full.
Cars aren't all about high speed and maybe the C2 might be a touch slower but over all its more satisfying to own the the BMW.
I needed more space that's why i went for the M3 and overall its a great all rounder but my next car will be a Porsche.

[sidicks]

rob05 said:

I had my car against my mates 997s just the other day and there was nothing in it the 997 was a car length quicker and it stayed that way up to 150 then we called it a day.

Edited by rob05 on Thursday 17th August 15:25

I do not believe that a 997 S is not noticeably quicker than a standard 911 (997) C2S (or C4S).

In the wet, the M3 wouldn;t see where the C4S went !

sidicks

[woogie]

C2's are over 120 kilos lighter then C4's so I would expect them to be a bit quicker, bar the snow that is .. lol

I can't see an M3 being much of a problem TBH. They are slower 0 to 60 and they run out of steam at 155 mph . :-)

Edited by woogie on Thursday 17th August 17:54

[rob05]

What do you mean in the wet?
What about in the snow?
You can believe it or disbelieve it I'm no representative for BMW just telling you the way it was.
The problem I'm afraid to say is all the bollox road tests and car mags people read which might give a very accurate 0-60-100 time but in real terms 0.5 of a second faster on a motorway doesn't mean anything in the real world so unless your cars has over 400bhp don't expect it to sail away into the sunset like you see on TV.
Ps. I have seen an indicated 180 mph on my car which equates to a realistic 167-8

Edited by rob05 on Thursday 17th August 18:02

[sidicks]

rob05 said:

What do you mean in the wet?
What about in the snow?
You can believe it or disbelieve it I'm no representative for BMW just telling you the way it was.
The problem I'm afraid to say is all the bollox road tests and car mags people read which might give a very accurate 0-60-100 time but in real terms 0.5 of a second faster on a motorway doesn't mean anything in the real world so unless your cars has over 400bhp don't expect it to sail away into the sunset like you see on TV.
Ps. I have seen an indicated 180 mph on my car which equates to a realistic 167-8

Edited by rob05 on Thursday 17th August 18:02

Ok then, wet and snow.

(I use to own an E46 M3 and now own a 997 C4S) - in the dry (cross country) the C4S would be noticeably quicker. In the wet /snow it would be even further ahead.

Carrera 'S' has 3.5% more power, 9.6% more torque and is 10.5% (C2S), 6.5% (C4S) lighter..........

Sidicks

Edited by sidicks on Thursday 17th August 18:20

[djohnson]

1jeb said:

djohnson said:

I've had my 996 C4S (the post facelift 3.6 320 bhp one) for about 6 months now. On paper it is about the same performance as my old 2003 E46 M3 (give or take a little bit). However I still maintain that it doesn't feel quite as quick in a straight line as the M3 did. It does deliver the power in a slightly more linear way so I guess it could be that. Has anyone else found the same thing? Is it worth getting the power output checked?

Thanks

Was it an SMGII?? They feel very fast when they "bang" into gear. Especially with the launch control.

Manual

[djohnson]

Thanks all.

[rob05]

Sidicks if you want to quote figures which to me are all subjective I'll give you some.
Autocar's figures for the M3 are 343 bhp 0-60 4.8 sec and 269 torque(lb ft) against the 997 4s which has 350 bhp 0-60 4.8 sec and 295 torque.
Does that really equate to noticeably quicker?
Baring in mind that the original poster was comparing the 996 with only 320 bhp that would mean by your calculations the M3 would murder the old 996?
Maybe your M3 wasn't that fast compared to mine?
All i can tell you is what i already said,that is my car is quicker than any standard 320bhp C4 or C2 and a car length or so behind a 997 C2 and against your car i doubt it would be much slower in a straight line on a dry day anything else and your car would murder mine.

[grant3]

Sorry driven 3 variants of M3 now & they are rubbery & detached compared to any 911, really cannnot see any comparison different animals, unless you need 4 good seats!!!
Now the MCoupe, that is different, a fabulous car, compact feelsome, fast, just didn't look too hot!

[Taaffy]

rob05 said:

Sidicks if you want to quote figures which to me are all subjective I'll give you some.
Autocar's figures for the M3 are 343 bhp 0-60 4.8 sec and 269 torque(lb ft) against the 997 4s which has 350 bhp 0-60 4.8 sec and 295 torque.
Does that really equate to noticeably quicker?
Baring in mind that the original poster was comparing the 996 with only 320 bhp that would mean by your calculations the M3 would murder the old 996?
Maybe your M3 wasn't that fast compared to mine?
All i can tell you is what i already said,that is my car is quicker than any standard 320bhp C4 or C2 and a car length or so behind a 997 C2 and against your car i doubt it would be much slower in a straight line on a dry day anything else and your car would murder mine.

The official 0-62 mph for the M3 5.2 secs .....220 bhp/tonne (approx)

The official 0-62mph for the facelift 996 C2 5.0 secs .....237 bhp/tonne (approx)

The official 0-62 for the Carrera S 4.8 secs .....250 bhp/tonne (approx)

not much in it really......bhp/tonne more relevant for on the move times.

Half a second here or there is irrelevant as you have to consider the skill of the drivers involved.

I have just changed an M3 E46 for a C2S, a mate who had a C2S at the same time as the M3 was virtually pushing me up the road on the straights and i was wringing the M3's neck with every gearchange.

They both feel fast in different ways ,the M3 always feels manic whilst the C2S feels unstressed and easy.

Personally i prefer the low down torque delivery of the 997 over the M3.

Take car testers figs with a pinch of salt as they really screw the revs and clutch to get the best possible time........

Edited by Taaffy on Sunday 20th August 17:06

[housemaster]

Well I had 4 years of E46 M3's and had many 'runs' with 996 C2's and C4's and never had one get away or get past in a straight line, there really is very little in it and I would say the M3 was a little quicker than the C4 and C4S upto the 120 region based on my experiences. Every car is different but I think 996 C2's, C4's and M3's are much the same performance wise. Mind you, my M3's have gone now and I have a GT3, so read into that what you will...