Pricewise, are 996s beginning to follow the pattern of 928s?
Discussion
Up to and including the 993, 911s have always defied gravity on the used market, no matter how old. And they have always been deemed to be worth fixing/restoring. In comparison, 928s fall to very low values and reach a point where they are not worth repairing and end up on the scrap heap.
There have been a lot of negative posts about 996 values lately. In five years are we going to see them in 928 territory?
There have been a lot of negative posts about 996 values lately. In five years are we going to see them in 928 territory?
I think the answer may be a cautions "yes" for some variants of the 996 (non-GT) (and, for that matter any car in the range loaded with electronics like adaptive dampers, sat nav etc etc) all of which soon becomes out-of-date or simply costs a fortune to repair / replace. Add this to the fact that a lot more have been made than ever before.
Edited by james_j on Thursday 10th August 16:30
I used to own a company that repaired computers. As for worrying about the electronics failing I wouldn't, if you want to worry try the moving parts.
If a circuit board is going to fail, it probably will have done within the first few years. Home computers generally fail because of their moving parts, or an accumulation of dust on the boards. Modern electronics on cars such as the 996 are generally modules linked together by wiring, if one was to fail you'd be replacing a module not a system.
RMS, you're looking at circa £700 or wait until the clutch needs doing. Judging by the number of 996s out there and the number of engine failures we hear of I suspect they're very much in the minority.
A 911 will always be an aspirational car.
All IMO of course.
If a circuit board is going to fail, it probably will have done within the first few years. Home computers generally fail because of their moving parts, or an accumulation of dust on the boards. Modern electronics on cars such as the 996 are generally modules linked together by wiring, if one was to fail you'd be replacing a module not a system.
RMS, you're looking at circa £700 or wait until the clutch needs doing. Judging by the number of 996s out there and the number of engine failures we hear of I suspect they're very much in the minority.
A 911 will always be an aspirational car.
All IMO of course.
ballcock said:
Shhhhhhhh ............ If you listen very carefully , you can hear the collective sigh of relief from the general PH 996 community.
Deutscher ... Surely there's something more constructive you could do with your free time , like knocking little boys sands castles and such .
Deutscher ... Surely there's something more constructive you could do with your free time , like knocking little boys sands castles and such .
You misunderstand me!!
I am lamenting what's happened to so many 928s and hoping 996s don't go the same way.
As a Porsche devotee it pains me when I see a 928 on a scrap heap.
I logged onto this forum originally cos I loved my car and wanted A. to celebrate that fact and B. learn a little more about it.
It seems the forum has recently just turned to doom and gloom as it's daily offering and it's wearing thin to be honest ...
We've all joked about too many posts knocking 996's but ... Jokes over ..
I'M BORED WITH DOOM POSTERS
Maybe you have posted cos you're lamenting the scrappage of 928's ... It's just one post too many for my poor little brain.
Why not start another topic on how wonderful your Porsche is to let a little sunlight through...
It seems the forum has recently just turned to doom and gloom as it's daily offering and it's wearing thin to be honest ...
We've all joked about too many posts knocking 996's but ... Jokes over ..
I'M BORED WITH DOOM POSTERS
Maybe you have posted cos you're lamenting the scrappage of 928's ... It's just one post too many for my poor little brain.
Why not start another topic on how wonderful your Porsche is to let a little sunlight through...
Deutscher said:
ballcock said:
Shhhhhhhh ............ If you listen very carefully , you can hear the collective sigh of relief from the general PH 996 community.
Deutscher ... Surely there's something more constructive you could do with your free time , like knocking little boys sands castles and such .
Deutscher ... Surely there's something more constructive you could do with your free time , like knocking little boys sands castles and such .
You misunderstand me!!
I am lamenting what's happened to so many 928s and hoping 996s don't go the same way.
As a Porsche devotee it pains me when I see a 928 on a scrap heap.
BTW , I've just read your first post , and I'm sorry , but I just can't seem to take that translation from it ... It just seems to be about 996 bashing ....
I could be wrong ............
I am sure if the internet was available back in the 70's/80's there would have been scare stories about the 911 of the time. Don't worry about the 996 - just like the 993 v 996, I am starting to see the odd post suggesting the 997 isn't as hardcore as the 996! Porsche Carrera's (to use their universal name!) will always be worth their salt.
I think cars in general will become more disposable as they reach a certain age/mileage/cost juncture.
But the 996 is still a 911. And, in its time, like its predecesors, I reckon it was the best evolution of the 911 -until the next one came along.
So, some will disappear, a few will live beyond their useful life, but many will continue giving pleasure until the oil wells run dry.
But the 996 is still a 911. And, in its time, like its predecesors, I reckon it was the best evolution of the 911 -until the next one came along.
So, some will disappear, a few will live beyond their useful life, but many will continue giving pleasure until the oil wells run dry.
Edited by Geneve on Thursday 10th August 23:34
ballcock said:
I logged onto this forum originally cos I loved my car and wanted A. to celebrate that fact and B. learn a little more about it.
It seems the forum has recently just turned to doom and gloom as it's daily offering and it's wearing thin to be honest ...
I'M BORED WITH DOOM POSTERS
It seems the forum has recently just turned to doom and gloom as it's daily offering and it's wearing thin to be honest ...
I'M BORED WITH DOOM POSTERS
Couldn't agree more with your first sentence - same reasons as I joined, couldn't really give too much thought to my cars before I bought the Boxster. A car was a car, it did what I needed and I let hubby sort what needed doing and I listened to his advice on what buy when it came to replacement time.
For some reason I rebelled against his advice when it came to replacing the TT (don't have any qualms in admitting that motoring became fun with little Audi) I wanted a Porsche.
Much searching found me a lovely low mileage S, probably paid top price from a dealer - more than I've paid for a car, ever.
We got on wonderfully for a few thousand miles until the engine expired at 12k miles. No other way of describing it other than it burst my little bubble of happiness, contentment and enjoyment.
Great service from the dealer, new engine without cost - but I'm left with an (unreasonable perhaps) sense of fragility with the car. It wasn't being driven hard when the engine died and I don't drive it hard now. But I can't past the feeling that it may happen again.
While you may be annoyed at the doom and gloom stories, I get equally annoyed with the vehement protestations that they're one off failures.
While I don't pretend to understand the mechanics of these failures I'm convinced they're occuring a little more frequently than a "one off failure" statement would suggest. It appears from reading a few posts on here that independants are investing considerable time, resources and finance in setting themselves up to catch those unfortunate enough to not be protected by a warranty and finding themselves looking for a new engine. Odd behaviour to cope with the occassional "one off failure"?
From my point of view, I'm a little disturbed to read several comments that if you've had one engine replacement you won't get a second!!! See nothing in my warranty booklet about that?
I fully appreciate that owners are wanting to protect their residuals - I'm one of them! But burying your head and pretending a "problem" doesn't exist is hardly helpful to those who come to look for advice on a potential purchase.
Rant away boys.
Jackie
Edited by jac-in-a-box on Friday 11th August 00:31
Jackie , at no stage did I suggest that the 996/986 (for your benefit!!) is without fault .. It's a high performance engine and speaking delicately.. Sh1t happens!!
A good friend of mine is driving a 993 that had an engine replacement at less than 20k. I make no assumptions that any Porsche engines are any way near bomb proof.
My beef lies with the Doom-sayers ( and I'm not specifically blaming Deutscher , he says this was not his intention) who seem to be dominating at the moment, with whipping the 996 their only intent.
It shows the state of affairs when 996 owners feel the need to post topics on how reliable their cars are just to negate the amount of rubbish written by people who are on a water cooled warpath.
A good friend of mine is driving a 993 that had an engine replacement at less than 20k. I make no assumptions that any Porsche engines are any way near bomb proof.
My beef lies with the Doom-sayers ( and I'm not specifically blaming Deutscher , he says this was not his intention) who seem to be dominating at the moment, with whipping the 996 their only intent.
It shows the state of affairs when 996 owners feel the need to post topics on how reliable their cars are just to negate the amount of rubbish written by people who are on a water cooled warpath.
Please don't think my "annoyance" is directed at you, far from it!
I was reasonably happy to accept my dealers assurance than my engine failure was an "unusual and rare occurance" - perhaps he meant the mode of failure, 3 split liners rather the increasingly reported aux drive shaft failure. Either way I'm getting a little nervous about the future longevity of the current engine; I'm not a pessimist normally!
It rankles that my engine popped and it's not quite so isolated as I was led to believe. Don't get me wrong I love the car to pieces and regard myself as fortunate to own the car, I'll carry on paying for the warranty simply for the comforting blanket of security it provides (notwithstanding my question on this entitlement to one engine only business that's circulating the bazaars) though it sticks in my throat that I have to.
Perhaps I've just been unlucky. None-the-less, I'm surprised at the ferocity of some of the responses from members towards those who report they've been a victim of an engine failure - they're trolls etc!
Jackie
I was reasonably happy to accept my dealers assurance than my engine failure was an "unusual and rare occurance" - perhaps he meant the mode of failure, 3 split liners rather the increasingly reported aux drive shaft failure. Either way I'm getting a little nervous about the future longevity of the current engine; I'm not a pessimist normally!
It rankles that my engine popped and it's not quite so isolated as I was led to believe. Don't get me wrong I love the car to pieces and regard myself as fortunate to own the car, I'll carry on paying for the warranty simply for the comforting blanket of security it provides (notwithstanding my question on this entitlement to one engine only business that's circulating the bazaars) though it sticks in my throat that I have to.
Perhaps I've just been unlucky. None-the-less, I'm surprised at the ferocity of some of the responses from members towards those who report they've been a victim of an engine failure - they're trolls etc!
Jackie
jac-in-a-box said:
Please don't think my "annoyance" is directed at you, far from it!
Well you did kinda quote me , Jackie!!
... I absolutely agree with you though .. There's no point in sticking your head in the sand and shouting 'troll' first, asking questions later.
Neither is there a point in needlessly pummelling the 996/986 engine for the sake of bolstering up your own variant of 911 , a lot of which I've seen in recent times.
BTW , I'm interested in hearing how this 'one warranty , one engine' thing works out as well ... Hopefully you won't be the one to fondle that barrier!!
For those who complain about 996's reliability it can clearly be seen that you've never had a Fezza thats for sure and more than that you don't have the Ferrari owner's caracter which rarely rants about the continously failing cars and appreciates the travel between their garages and the dealer... Note: Porsche achieved number 1 position on client satisfation in 2005 overtaking Lexus for the same effect. More, by percentage it has been one of the cars that least left their owners standing on the side of the road (mechanical breakdowns) up there in the top chart next to Toyota.
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