So ahh power?

[ktg]

Anyone tried one of these?

www.nelsonracingengines.com/motors_tt.html

[GTWayne]

Very impressive but total overkill for an Ultima. This type of car is best powered by a normally aspirated motor IMHO, only trouble is that it costs lots of dough to make big power. Other considerations are excess heat, packaging and the toughest G50 only being able to handle 600/650ftlbs.

[ktg]

GTWayne said:

the toughest G50 only being able to handle 600/650ftlbs.

Is that all
Is that really the limits? What trans do people use that are higher HP? The record breaker used the G50...

[cmoody32]

The G50 can handle more than that. I know of a few twin turbo's with 900+ hp at the wheels that are running through a G50.

[GTWayne]

Is that all
Is that really the limits? What trans do people use that are higher HP? The record breaker used the G50...[/quote] What do you mean 'is that all', trust me, that's loads. You seem to have bhp and ftlbs mixed up a bit. The record braking Ultima has plenty bhp for sure but I would be surprised if it has more than 600ftlb of torque. As Carol Shelby is famously quoted as saying 'horsepower sells cars, torque wins races'. There are few Ultimas out there with 600ftlbs+ so I guess it's not often a problem. The G50 is not rated by Porsche as being able to handle more than 650ftlbs but as he in the above post states, there are Ultimas in existence putting out huge figures with no breakages as yet, but in the same context many a G50 has failed with lower specific outputs.

Edited by GTWayne on Monday 7th August 14:10

[Hugger Z]

I know there are guys in the states getting upgraded internals so the Transmissions will handle more power reliably. I think Powerhaus II is one place. I know Jeff Schwartz (twin turbo LS2) and Mark Koch (single turbo LS1) used them.
www.powerhausii.com/

Builder (LS7) used California Motorsports.
www.ihp.com/cms/index.html

Edited by Hugger Z on Monday 7th August 17:26

[mondeohdear]

GTWayne said:

The record braking Ultima has plenty bhp for sure but I would be surprised if it has more than 600ftlb of torque. As Carol Shelby is famously quoted as saying 'horsepower sells cars, torque wins races'. There are few Ultimas out there with 600ftlbs+ so I guess it's not often a problem. The G50 is not rated by Porsche as being able to handle more than 650ftlbs but as he in the above post states, there are Ultimas in existence putting out huge figures with no breakages as yet, but in the same context many a G50 has failed with lower specific outputs.

As Ultima claim the GTR720 was using a standard American Speed engine then it's giving 630ftlb at 4400rpm according to the AS web site.

www.amerspeed.com/scgi-bin/showultimaengines.cgi

[GTWayne]

You will always have conflicting reports of supposed power figures and unfortunately, the Yanks are amongst the worst for over inflation. I found that when I was looking to have a proper motor built, there were so many conflicting ideas and information that once I had found a competent builder, I chose to believe 100% in what I was being told and what I was having built. I was present at the Dyno session and saw first hand the jubilation exuded by not only the builder but the Motec specialist on hand to programme the ECU at the 648.9bhp and 616ftlb made by the street friendly motor that had been created. Back to the point though, you can argue power figures all you like, but the world record breaking times speak for themselves. I am eager to time my car and should it perform better than the factory car, will have proof that the AS figures are maybe shall we say, calculated in a more favourable way. Don't get me wrong, I have no agenda and am not going out of my way to prove a damn thing but whatever my findings, all will be laid bear for one and all to decide.

[peterpsg]

Wayne, I hope you've got an LSD fitted or you might find yourself going sideways real fast...

[GTWayne]

The gearbox I have is a G50/03 with fully modified and uprated internals and steel L.S.D. all supplied by Powerhaus. The shift point is set at 7200 RPM and are as follows: 1st/74.1mph 2nd/102.1 3rd/137.3 4th/174.6 5th/213.1, the final drive is 3.444. I feel this box is as far as one can go and if not suitable, will look at alternatives like Mendola, Hollinger etc. a Hewland would be strong enough but not ideally suited to road use. I will evaluate the use of the standard type shift and may go sequential if found to be unsatisfactory.

[peterpsg]

Very nice, around £7-8 then for the box?

I do think the sequential is probably worth the money. (The CMS side mount jobby)

I have the G50/21 6 Speed (normal H pattern RHS rod shift), with a Quaife ATB LSD, and while upshifting is usually ok, I was having real problems going from 3rd -> 2nd while doing some twisty stuff on Andy Walsh's training ground.

I really do wonder though, if PHII actually does the work or if it just sends it off to CMS like other Porsche transmission 'specialists' do...

[GTWayne]

I went to the states and visited the Powerhaus room (I am not joking, it really is just a 12'x 12' stock room with about $1.5 million worth of parts in it). I don't know if like you say they build themselves or farm it out (I suspect the later) but I bought the full accoutrement and brought it back in my suitcase and had a specialist build the box for me over here.

[chuntington101]

actually yes someone in the states is getting one built! (lucky git!) lol

cant remember the site the link but it was posted on here by crafty i think

will have a look tonight.

Chris.

ps. was said (by tom nelson) that the motor (one of their 427 twin turbos) was making 1100bhp on pump and 1600bhp on race fuel. these figures are really world as there are loads of vids on the Nelson sight of engines making well into the 1Kbhp on pump.

[GTWayne]

At the beginning of this project I too was swayed by massive power motors but as time has gone by although big numbers are impressive for sure, are they really relevant in the real world?

[Hugger Z]

GTWayne said:

At the beginning of this project I too was swayed by massive power motors but as time has gone by although big numbers are impressive for sure, are they really relevant in the real world?

Not if you can't get that power to the pavement without creating a giant smoke cloud!! Although many of the high power guys I know of half throttle it until they get enough speed to ease into full throttle and then hold on for the ride! I guess it depends upon your goals and the driveability/reliability you want.