Discussion
Once I have sold my 968 CS, I will be taking delivery of a 993. The car will be my first 911 and im tempted to go for some driving tuition. Any particular courses any good ?
Does anyone have any advice on how to drive these cars quickly and safely? Im really nervous of the whole 'flinging it of backwards into a hedge' thing. Are these cars as snappy as they are rumoured to be ?
Also does anyone have any experience of a fitting a sports exhaust ? Does it generate any more power ? Any particular exhausts better than others ?
If anyone has any experience of a 993 I would be very keen to hear about it.
Dan
Does anyone have any advice on how to drive these cars quickly and safely? Im really nervous of the whole 'flinging it of backwards into a hedge' thing. Are these cars as snappy as they are rumoured to be ?
Also does anyone have any experience of a fitting a sports exhaust ? Does it generate any more power ? Any particular exhausts better than others ?
If anyone has any experience of a 993 I would be very keen to hear about it.
Dan
Why the rolleyes? What is there to be sarcastic about?
On topic - exhausts give the car some much-needed noise, but will not give you any significant power. Favourite on this forum is the RSR exhaust backbox from Carnewal, these sound great and are good value. I have Cargraphic backboxes on mine which are more expensive but come with a choice of tail pipes, and give a different (but still great!) sound. Both are livable with as a daily driver (i.e. no resonance).
The Fabspeed Supercup pipes sounds utterly awesome but are probably illegal and the resonance will melt your brain on long journeys. Also forget trackdays with them...
You can get the 'Motorsound' airbox for increased induction noise - this is a choice between buying a new one, or taking off your existing airbox and drilling the holes helpfully marked for you by Porsche.
IMO the exhaust is essential to release some character - the standard system is very quiet (Swiss regs?).
On topic - exhausts give the car some much-needed noise, but will not give you any significant power. Favourite on this forum is the RSR exhaust backbox from Carnewal, these sound great and are good value. I have Cargraphic backboxes on mine which are more expensive but come with a choice of tail pipes, and give a different (but still great!) sound. Both are livable with as a daily driver (i.e. no resonance).
The Fabspeed Supercup pipes sounds utterly awesome but are probably illegal and the resonance will melt your brain on long journeys. Also forget trackdays with them...
You can get the 'Motorsound' airbox for increased induction noise - this is a choice between buying a new one, or taking off your existing airbox and drilling the holes helpfully marked for you by Porsche.
IMO the exhaust is essential to release some character - the standard system is very quiet (Swiss regs?).
dsmith968 said:
Does anyone have any advice on how to drive these cars quickly and safely? Im really nervous of the whole 'flinging it of backwards into a hedge' thing. Are these cars as snappy as they are rumoured to be ?
Dan
Drive it like a tw@t in the rain, then yes it'll take you through a hedge ass first, but IMO you really need to be a complete numb nuts to lose the back end in the dry, especially on a public road. Of course if the tyres are worn or poor quality, and the suspension worn out then this threshold will obviously be lower. I think you're going about this the right way though - a good track day/tuition will help you learn the limits of your car so you don't go anywhere near them when you don't want to! Good luck and enjoy your 993, they're fantastic cars!
PS. RSRs are a MUST. If there's only one mod you do, make sure it's the RSRs. They sound beautiful!
Edited by 993_C2S on Sunday 6th August 22:46
.................... but IMO you really need to be a complete numb nuts to lose the back end in the dry, especially on a public road. ................
Edited by 993_C2S on Sunday 6th August 22:46
[/quote] Unless of course your local authority decides that it would be a good idea to spread chippings on a pot hole repair on a corner. Made for a bit of excitement when I least expected it, but foot down, bit of turn on the steering wheel and all was fine
Dan,
Good luck with the 993. I'm well pleased with my C2.
Depending on where you are, you could do a lot worse than go for a drive with John Lyon.
He does a half day intro on public roads for just £50 which is great value. Usually he drives your car first, and it's worth £50 just to see that! The intro is more about how to drive fast but safe, rather than specifically about 911 handling traits. But he's very knowledgeable about 911's and keen to impart info.
Bare in mind that he's a bit of an old fart and will rant on a bit about the 'good old days' etc. It seemed a bit like going out with my old man, until he got behind the wheel and suddenly you realise how well the geezer can drive. Left me realising how much I need to learn. So big respect to the fella.
I also booked a follow-up day at the MIRA test facility, with a very impressive variable surface skid circuit with water sprayers. This was bloody expensive, but taught me plenty about the limits of the car in adverse conditions, and more importantly how to react when it all goes petetong. It also demonstrated yet again how good Lyon is when he gets behind a wheel.
Good luck with the 993. I'm well pleased with my C2.
Depending on where you are, you could do a lot worse than go for a drive with John Lyon.
He does a half day intro on public roads for just £50 which is great value. Usually he drives your car first, and it's worth £50 just to see that! The intro is more about how to drive fast but safe, rather than specifically about 911 handling traits. But he's very knowledgeable about 911's and keen to impart info.
Bare in mind that he's a bit of an old fart and will rant on a bit about the 'good old days' etc. It seemed a bit like going out with my old man, until he got behind the wheel and suddenly you realise how well the geezer can drive. Left me realising how much I need to learn. So big respect to the fella.
I also booked a follow-up day at the MIRA test facility, with a very impressive variable surface skid circuit with water sprayers. This was bloody expensive, but taught me plenty about the limits of the car in adverse conditions, and more importantly how to react when it all goes petetong. It also demonstrated yet again how good Lyon is when he gets behind a wheel.
Dan,
Having owned a 993 and on my second 3.2 Carrera (which is alot rawer than the 993) I'd advise you not to worry about getting into a 993.
I'm sure more people get into trouble coming from hot hatches into smaller roadsters like the MGF, MX5 and Lotus Elise. I hear so many more stories of people spinning these as they're RWD and lightweight and tend to lose traction quickly in the wet.
Respect your 911, the weight actually helps to keep you planted on the road, just don't try and fling it around in the wet and make sure you drive smoothly.
Above all enjoy it.
GP
Having owned a 993 and on my second 3.2 Carrera (which is alot rawer than the 993) I'd advise you not to worry about getting into a 993.
I'm sure more people get into trouble coming from hot hatches into smaller roadsters like the MGF, MX5 and Lotus Elise. I hear so many more stories of people spinning these as they're RWD and lightweight and tend to lose traction quickly in the wet.
Respect your 911, the weight actually helps to keep you planted on the road, just don't try and fling it around in the wet and make sure you drive smoothly.
Above all enjoy it.
GP
Bernard Aubrey. He used to be based out at Reading and did all of the Porsche UK recommended driver training, so 911s are his speciality. I did two full days with him and thought it was fantastic (and I'm really picky). I haven't tried John Lyons, but have heard that he's a bit like one of those piano teachers apt to whack you on the knuckles with a ruler at times, and that some of his teachings are a bit dogmatic.
You obviously haven't tried a C6 on 20"s then. Highly recommended, as it saves tons of money on driver training.
997gt3 said:
You could always get a C4 instead! Mine always handled superbly wet or dry and the 18" wheels it had meant it stuck to the road like glue.
You obviously haven't tried a C6 on 20"s then. Highly recommended, as it saves tons of money on driver training.
Edited by loach on Monday 7th August 12:36
My vote goes with John Bussell, if you want to learn how to drive really fast, if you want to learn car control and how to recover a spin, (which is very different) go with Don Palmer.
I have had both and they teach very different things!
I am using John at the moment, he really is a great teacher, you will go very fast, safely and what's more he is still racing (porsches and other marques) and winning so you know what he teaches is spot on.
He will teach you how to use the 911 behaviour to go quickly, how to master weight balance and yet be very safe.
Only advice is do it now before you have learn slow in fast out and have to unlearn and learn again how to go really quickly!
HTH
John
I have had both and they teach very different things!
I am using John at the moment, he really is a great teacher, you will go very fast, safely and what's more he is still racing (porsches and other marques) and winning so you know what he teaches is spot on.
He will teach you how to use the 911 behaviour to go quickly, how to master weight balance and yet be very safe.
Only advice is do it now before you have learn slow in fast out and have to unlearn and learn again how to go really quickly!
HTH
John
dsmith968 said:
Once I have sold my 968 CS, I will be taking delivery of a 993. The car will be my first 911 and im tempted to go for some driving tuition. Any particular courses any good ?
Dan
Dan
I'm with Ace and really recommend Don Palmer see ...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=48&h=&t=271671
dsmith968 said:
If anyone has any experience of a 993 I would be very keen to hear about it.
There may be a couple of folks on here, there's a chap called VerySideways ...
... he knows a little bit about 993s ...My ears were burning...
I will bow to greater knowledge on the driver training days, having not done one myself, but can heartily recommend getting out on track simply to learn where the limits of the car are and get used to the feeling of when it's going, and learning what you can do to save it (or, as in my case, provoke it and slide everywhere)
As for 993's, what do you want to know?
Apart from the standard brakes/clutch/tyres/shocks to look for, the weak points on the 993 seem to be surfacing as steering racks, door check straps, rust around the windscreen (specifically at the bottom of the A-pillar) and weeping lower valve cover gaskets. More recently some people have noticed the rear bumper supports disintegrate eventually too.
Sports exhaust? I haven't heard anything that sounded better than RSR's (a few that sound as good, but none better) and the RSR is the least epensive solution. You order them, put them on the car, and you have three weeks to try them. If you decide to keep them, you send back your standard exhausts plus 400 euros (about 275 quid). If you don't like them, send them back. It's just that simple.
Anything specific you want to ask feel free to ask here or PM me - lots of people have PM'd me over the years, and ended up buying very nice 993's
I've had 4 of them myself now...
VS
I will bow to greater knowledge on the driver training days, having not done one myself, but can heartily recommend getting out on track simply to learn where the limits of the car are and get used to the feeling of when it's going, and learning what you can do to save it (or, as in my case, provoke it and slide everywhere
) As for 993's, what do you want to know?
Apart from the standard brakes/clutch/tyres/shocks to look for, the weak points on the 993 seem to be surfacing as steering racks, door check straps, rust around the windscreen (specifically at the bottom of the A-pillar) and weeping lower valve cover gaskets. More recently some people have noticed the rear bumper supports disintegrate eventually too.
Sports exhaust? I haven't heard anything that sounded better than RSR's (a few that sound as good, but none better) and the RSR is the least epensive solution. You order them, put them on the car, and you have three weeks to try them. If you decide to keep them, you send back your standard exhausts plus 400 euros (about 275 quid). If you don't like them, send them back. It's just that simple.
Anything specific you want to ask feel free to ask here or PM me - lots of people have PM'd me over the years, and ended up buying very nice 993's
I've had 4 of them myself now...
VS
g7jhp said:
I'm sure more people get into trouble coming from hot hatches into smaller roadsters like the MGF, MX5 and Lotus Elise. I hear so many more stories of people spinning these as they're RWD and lightweight and tend to lose traction quickly in the wet.
Dan,
I'm in a similar position to you and am also living proof of the above, having borrowed my girlfriend's MX-5 to drive home on Christmas day in 2003 and subsequently spun it into a tree (Her: "Did you have a safe trip home?" Me: "Yeah, fine, lovely drive. As a completely unrelated aside, remind me again who insures your car?"
MX-5 is an easy car to slide whereas my recently acquired 964 feels firmly planted when pressing on. However, I'm still pretty scared of pushing it having grown up with the motoring journos banging on about the tail happy nature. I reckon you're absolutely spot on in getting some tuition early doors - I'm going to do the same at the end of the month.
Based on my experience, I would take it easy for the first few weeks while you get used to the wierd weight distribution and chatty steering wheel. I'd be interested to know how you get on with instructors - I'll let you know if I have any good experiences.
PaulZR said:
g7jhp said:
I'm sure more people get into trouble coming from hot hatches into smaller roadsters like the MGF, MX5 and Lotus Elise. I hear so many more stories of people spinning these as they're RWD and lightweight and tend to lose traction quickly in the wet.
Dan,
I'm in a similar position to you and am also living proof of the above, having borrowed my girlfriend's MX-5 to drive home on Christmas day in 2003 and subsequently spun it into a tree (Her: "Did you have a safe trip home?" Me: "Yeah, fine, lovely drive. As a completely unrelated aside, remind me again who insures your car?"
MX-5 is an easy car to slide whereas my recently acquired 964 feels firmly planted when pressing on. However, I'm still pretty scared of pushing it having grown up with the motoring journos banging on about the tail happy nature. I reckon you're absolutely spot on in getting some tuition early doors - I'm going to do the same at the end of the month.
Based on my experience, I would take it easy for the first few weeks while you get used to the wierd weight distribution and chatty steering wheel. I'd be interested to know how you get on with instructors - I'll let you know if I have any good experiences.
Wandering off topic slightly now but the bizarre thing is, since getting the 911 I'm now driving the (repaired) MX-5 with alot more verve. Never push it in the wet but can slide it around in the dry much better than before. Think it stems from the fact that I'm now more conscious that it's much slower than the Porsche and is therefore less intimidating.
Another prang coming soon, no doubt...
Another prang coming soon, no doubt...
FYI. Im insured with Tesco.
Spinning MX-5's ??? Im sure these cars were developed primarily for the female market and safe, friendly handling must have been the first part of its design. Im pretty sad when it comes to car knowledge and I don't ever remember any report describing it as a 'handful'! Shame on you guys, sounds like you were going hammer and tongs to get into that situation!
Im sure I don't need to tell you but encountering that problem in a 911 on a roundabout maybe a LOT more serious......
Spinning MX-5's ??? Im sure these cars were developed primarily for the female market and safe, friendly handling must have been the first part of its design. Im pretty sad when it comes to car knowledge and I don't ever remember any report describing it as a 'handful'! Shame on you guys, sounds like you were going hammer and tongs to get into that situation!
Im sure I don't need to tell you but encountering that problem in a 911 on a roundabout maybe a LOT more serious......
Edited by dsmith968 on Thursday 10th August 10:34
Pickled Piper said:
You have to be pretty ham fisted to lose it in the dry or even the wet. The unforgiving handling characteristics that are the stuff of bar room legend were developed / engineered out by the time the 993 was released.
Enjoy!
pp
Enjoy!
pp
You mean the unforgiving handling characteristics always talked about by people who have never driven one?
Seriously dont stress, if you drive like a pillock then yes you might fire off the road very fast, but thats only because you will be hitting the corner a lot faster than in a "normal" car, however you've had a quick rear wheel drive car, so provided you didn't have weekly "offs" you will be fine!
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