Anyone had an M3csl on here? Opinions.....
Discussion
Just having a think about the next car and although I'm fairly sure I'll get another, newer 911 I'm considering the options.
If I post this in BMW they'll all tell me how great the CSL is I'm sure but I wondered if anyone here had any experience.
Are they comparable to 911's in terms of fun, agility and surefootedness?
If I post this in BMW they'll all tell me how great the CSL is I'm sure but I wondered if anyone here had any experience.
Are they comparable to 911's in terms of fun, agility and surefootedness?
The CSL is a bargain at the moment at circa 35k.
They are usually compared to 996 GT3s.
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
They are usually compared to 996 GT3s.
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
Sounds good so far.
Next question - would I be an arse to buy one if I'm not into trackdays? I do them on the bike but haven't ever taken my car on a track (not to say I wouldn't - just haven't to date).
I know it's a track focused car and the standard M3 probably makes more sense for me, but I like the exclusivity of the CSL and the looks and theory behind it.
Next question - would I be an arse to buy one if I'm not into trackdays? I do them on the bike but haven't ever taken my car on a track (not to say I wouldn't - just haven't to date).
I know it's a track focused car and the standard M3 probably makes more sense for me, but I like the exclusivity of the CSL and the looks and theory behind it.
They're worth buying for the exclusivity. Think they'll hold up better than a normal M3. They also look a tad nicer.
No harm buying it 'just in case' you want to do the odd trackday. Few cars are perfect for trackwork out of the box, and the CSL is still a road car. As was said, if you want a proper track weapon, get a Cup car. Or Caterham/Radical etc.
No harm buying it 'just in case' you want to do the odd trackday. Few cars are perfect for trackwork out of the box, and the CSL is still a road car. As was said, if you want a proper track weapon, get a Cup car. Or Caterham/Radical etc.
Agree with all the above - had one for a year, bit of a Q car really, as most people don't know what they are. They had, IMHO, unfair critisism from the press on release, but was mainly due to high price. At around the £35k mark, they are great value. The SMG box is not for some, others love it. They had a lot of niggles with them for the 1st year or so, but most cars will have been fixed under warranty.
All in, highly recommended, even as just a road car.
All in, highly recommended, even as just a road car.
johnfm said:
The only two people I know who sold their GT3s to buy a CSl sold their CSLs within a month. The guy I bought my GT3 from has called me twice to buy it back after his short CSL experiment.
Fair point Johnfm, but he's not selling a GT3, and we've already done the M3Csl v's GT3 to death.mbutchers said:
johnfm said:
The only two people I know who sold their GT3s to buy a CSl sold their CSLs within a month. The guy I bought my GT3 from has called me twice to buy it back after his short CSL experiment.
Fair point Johnfm, but he's not selling a GT3, and we've already done the M3Csl v's GT3 to death.mbutchers said:
johnfm said:
The only two people I know who sold their GT3s to buy a CSl sold their CSLs within a month. The guy I bought my GT3 from has called me twice to buy it back after his short CSL experiment.
Fair point Johnfm, but he's not selling a GT3, and we've already done the M3Csl v's GT3 to death.Agree entirely - just thought he may want to know that some people have not kept them for one reason or another. The Mbutchers&KayC "GT3s are overated" double act seems a bit over sensitive this afternoon!!
Spot on summary! The car is a fine every day car and vastly more practical than any 911.
domster said:
The CSL is a bargain at the moment at circa 35k.
They are usually compared to 996 GT3s.
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
They are usually compared to 996 GT3s.
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
Carrera2 said:
Are they comparable to 911's in terms of fun, agility and surefootedness?
Domster said:
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
The Csl is quite easy to drive quickly - it has great balance, but It probably doesn't feel as planted as the 911, especially exiting corners. The Csl is obviously alot lighter at the back, but then the 911 is quite unique in that respect.
The Csl is great fun tho', if possibly a bit 2 dimensional compared to the Porsche. I would also say that it is maybe a bit more agile, but i'm sure many on here will disagree
The Csl is probably not as surefooted as the 911 in the wet, especially on the Cup tyres.
The only way to tell, is to get a drive......
A previous poster on here had the same dilema with Csl and GT3, and although loved the Csl for its immediate accessibility, he hated the SMG box - here's some of what he said.....
slippydiff said:
Soon after I found myself in the drivers seat.
I'd already been forewarned that upchanges would be smoother if I feathered the throttle as I operated the paddles, and thus attempted this whilst in S3 or S4.
Ughhhhhhhhhh
!! the memories of my first driving lesson came flooding back !! talk about jerky and uncoordinated !!
The smoothness of the changes didn't improve much and the first seeds of doubt were sown...................
We negotiated a large roundabout which gave me a bit of time to assess the steering weight and feel, both of which were lighter and lacking in comparison with the GT3 tested earlier in the week.
Outside temp was 3 oC but felt a lot colder ! The grip seemed good, but with little or no feedback (I believe dialling in twice the camber and getting the tyres properly warmed, increases the weighting of the steering considerably) neither of which was an option today unfortunately.
Having got onto a dual carriageway I was able to give it some beans. What followed was mightily impressive and just as quick as the GT3, with a better quality of sound than the GT3 but with the Cup air filter assembly fitted as previously mentioned, no louder.
We sprinted effortlessly up to slow Autobahn cruising speeds
during which my heart dropped, as I'm sure I heard the dreaded clutch "upchange slurring" on at least one shift 
At these speeds the car felt very secure and planted (if a bit mundane TBH)
I tried changing up and down the box in various modes and found myself getting frustrated by my lack of smoothness even at this early stage.
By now my previously "just comfortable" seat position was becoming less so and I felt distinctly hunched up and awkard.
I experimented with the auto modes and then went back to trying S3 - 4 and finally managed some "smoother" upchanges.
However upping the revs and being more agressive brought a return of the jerky changes
I normally consider myself a pretty laid back person, but for no apparent reason I felt both very frustrated and somewhat irratated by the whole SMG thing.
With my patience rapidly dwindling (and us getting close to the dealership) I asked my assistant if he could make seamless upchanges whilst using the upper reaches of the rev range in the higher S modes, and if so, perhaps he would like to demonstrate such changes.
He leapt at the chance (being a staunch supporter of the system) and took over the driving seat. As we swapped seats I said to him "I think I could get very p***ed off with this whole SMG 'box thing very quickly"
He replied he thought it was very much a "love it or loathe it" concept and then proceeded to head down some twistier and tighter backroads (closer to the type used on the GT3 test)
I noticed this previously mild mannered man now spouted horns as the red mist decended
, and upped the ante considerably ! Here was a man totally at ease with this so far "alien" (to me) system, now traversing backroads at very illegal speeds with total confidence.
The car was very impressive (from the passenger seat) and at the same speeds the GT3 was starting to loose some of its composure the CSL was "four square" and totally settled.
Even a section of road which had some nasty cresting undulations in close proximity to each other (which allowed no time for the suspension to regain from one compression to the next) and was taken at "very naughty" speeds, held no horrors (something I'm sure the GT3 would not have shrugged off with such distain)
So far all the gearchanges had been perfectly executed during this "maximum attack" assault, but then on the return run as we went up through the 'box there was an almighty bang as a gear went home, "see, even I don't get it right all the time" was his retort.
Our return was even quicker than the outbound leg
and we soon found ourselves back on the forecourt.
So just what are my thoughts ?
I think I'd buy one every day................................without the SMG 'box.
Some may call me a luddite, but I personally just don't get/ see the point of the SMG system. For me, part of the pleasure of driving a car like this is having control and reacting to feedback (and cars of this ilk are honed to improve feedback through the few contact surfaces you have with them)Having now driven the CSL I think that extra £10-15K for the GT3 would be money well spent.
I'd already been forewarned that upchanges would be smoother if I feathered the throttle as I operated the paddles, and thus attempted this whilst in S3 or S4.
Ughhhhhhhhhh
!! the memories of my first driving lesson came flooding back !! talk about jerky and uncoordinated !! The smoothness of the changes didn't improve much and the first seeds of doubt were sown...................
We negotiated a large roundabout which gave me a bit of time to assess the steering weight and feel, both of which were lighter and lacking in comparison with the GT3 tested earlier in the week.
Outside temp was 3 oC but felt a lot colder ! The grip seemed good, but with little or no feedback (I believe dialling in twice the camber and getting the tyres properly warmed, increases the weighting of the steering considerably) neither of which was an option today unfortunately.
Having got onto a dual carriageway I was able to give it some beans. What followed was mightily impressive and just as quick as the GT3, with a better quality of sound than the GT3 but with the Cup air filter assembly fitted as previously mentioned, no louder.
We sprinted effortlessly up to slow Autobahn cruising speeds
during which my heart dropped, as I'm sure I heard the dreaded clutch "upchange slurring" on at least one shift At these speeds the car felt very secure and planted (if a bit mundane TBH)
I tried changing up and down the box in various modes and found myself getting frustrated by my lack of smoothness even at this early stage.
By now my previously "just comfortable" seat position was becoming less so and I felt distinctly hunched up and awkard.
I experimented with the auto modes and then went back to trying S3 - 4 and finally managed some "smoother" upchanges.
However upping the revs and being more agressive brought a return of the jerky changes
I normally consider myself a pretty laid back person, but for no apparent reason I felt both very frustrated and somewhat irratated by the whole SMG thing.
With my patience rapidly dwindling (and us getting close to the dealership) I asked my assistant if he could make seamless upchanges whilst using the upper reaches of the rev range in the higher S modes, and if so, perhaps he would like to demonstrate such changes.
He leapt at the chance (being a staunch supporter of the system) and took over the driving seat. As we swapped seats I said to him "I think I could get very p***ed off with this whole SMG 'box thing very quickly"
He replied he thought it was very much a "love it or loathe it" concept and then proceeded to head down some twistier and tighter backroads (closer to the type used on the GT3 test)
I noticed this previously mild mannered man now spouted horns as the red mist decended
, and upped the ante considerably ! Here was a man totally at ease with this so far "alien" (to me) system, now traversing backroads at very illegal speeds with total confidence. The car was very impressive (from the passenger seat) and at the same speeds the GT3 was starting to loose some of its composure the CSL was "four square" and totally settled.
Even a section of road which had some nasty cresting undulations in close proximity to each other (which allowed no time for the suspension to regain from one compression to the next) and was taken at "very naughty" speeds, held no horrors (something I'm sure the GT3 would not have shrugged off with such distain)
So far all the gearchanges had been perfectly executed during this "maximum attack" assault, but then on the return run as we went up through the 'box there was an almighty bang as a gear went home, "see, even I don't get it right all the time" was his retort.
Our return was even quicker than the outbound leg
and we soon found ourselves back on the forecourt. So just what are my thoughts ?
I think I'd buy one every day................................without the SMG 'box.
Some may call me a luddite, but I personally just don't get/ see the point of the SMG system. For me, part of the pleasure of driving a car like this is having control and reacting to feedback (and cars of this ilk are honed to improve feedback through the few contact surfaces you have with them)Having now driven the CSL I think that extra £10-15K for the GT3 would be money well spent.
mbutchers said:
Carrera2 said:
Are they comparable to 911's in terms of fun, agility and surefootedness?
Domster said:
However, despite similar performance, they will be a very different beast on many levels; both cars get to their destination via different means. You'll need to drive one to see whether you like it compared to a Porsche.
The Csl is quite easy to drive quickly - it has great balance, but It probably doesn't feel as planted as the 911, especially exiting corners. The Csl is obviously alot lighter at the back, but then the 911 is quite unique in that respect.
The Csl is great fun tho', if possibly a bit 2 dimensional compared to the Porsche. I would also say that it is maybe a bit more agile, but i'm sure many on here will disagree
The Csl is probably not as surefooted as the 911 in the wet, especially on the Cup tyres.
The only way to tell, is to get a drive......
A previous poster on here had the same dilema with Csl and GT3, and although loved the Csl for its immediate accessibility, he hated the SMG box - here's some of what he said.....
slippydiff said:
Soon after I found myself in the drivers seat.
I'd already been forewarned that upchanges would be smoother if I feathered the throttle as I operated the paddles, and thus attempted this whilst in S3 or S4.
Ughhhhhhhhhh!! the memories of my first driving lesson came flooding back !! talk about jerky and uncoordinated !!
The smoothness of the changes didn't improve much and the first seeds of doubt were sown...................
We negotiated a large roundabout which gave me a bit of time to assess the steering weight and feel, both of which were lighter and lacking in comparison with the GT3 tested earlier in the week.
Outside temp was 3 oC but felt a lot colder ! The grip seemed good, but with little or no feedback (I believe dialling in twice the camber and getting the tyres properly warmed, increases the weighting of the steering considerably) neither of which was an option today unfortunately.
Having got onto a dual carriageway I was able to give it some beans. What followed was mightily impressive and just as quick as the GT3, with a better quality of sound than the GT3 but with the Cup air filter assembly fitted as previously mentioned, no louder.
We sprinted effortlessly up to slow Autobahn cruising speeds during which my heart dropped, as I'm sure I heard the dreaded clutch "upchange slurring" on at least one shift
At these speeds the car felt very secure and planted (if a bit mundane TBH)
I tried changing up and down the box in various modes and found myself getting frustrated by my lack of smoothness even at this early stage.
By now my previously "just comfortable" seat position was becoming less so and I felt distinctly hunched up and awkard.
I experimented with the auto modes and then went back to trying S3 - 4 and finally managed some "smoother" upchanges.
However upping the revs and being more agressive brought a return of the jerky changes
I normally consider myself a pretty laid back person, but for no apparent reason I felt both very frustrated and somewhat irratated by the whole SMG thing.
With my patience rapidly dwindling (and us getting close to the dealership) I asked my assistant if he could make seamless upchanges whilst using the upper reaches of the rev range in the higher S modes, and if so, perhaps he would like to demonstrate such changes.
He leapt at the chance (being a staunch supporter of the system) and took over the driving seat. As we swapped seats I said to him "I think I could get very p***ed off with this whole SMG 'box thing very quickly"
He replied he thought it was very much a "love it or loathe it" concept and then proceeded to head down some twistier and tighter backroads (closer to the type used on the GT3 test)
I noticed this previously mild mannered man now spouted horns as the red mist decended , and upped the ante considerably ! Here was a man totally at ease with this so far "alien" (to me) system, now traversing backroads at very illegal speeds with total confidence.
The car was very impressive (from the passenger seat) and at the same speeds the GT3 was starting to loose some of its composure the CSL was "four square" and totally settled.
Even a section of road which had some nasty cresting undulations in close proximity to each other (which allowed no time for the suspension to regain from one compression to the next) and was taken at "very naughty" speeds, held no horrors (something I'm sure the GT3 would not have shrugged off with such distain)
So far all the gearchanges had been perfectly executed during this "maximum attack" assault, but then on the return run as we went up through the 'box there was an almighty bang as a gear went home, "see, even I don't get it right all the time" was his retort.
Our return was even quicker than the outbound leg and we soon found ourselves back on the forecourt.
So just what are my thoughts ?
I think I'd buy one every day................................without the SMG 'box.
Some may call me a luddite, but I personally just don't get/ see the point of the SMG system. For me, part of the pleasure of driving a car like this is having control and reacting to feedback (and cars of this ilk are honed to improve feedback through the few contact surfaces you have with them)Having now driven the CSL I think that extra £10-15K for the GT3 would be money well spent.
I'd already been forewarned that upchanges would be smoother if I feathered the throttle as I operated the paddles, and thus attempted this whilst in S3 or S4.
Ughhhhhhhhhh
!! the memories of my first driving lesson came flooding back !! talk about jerky and uncoordinated !! The smoothness of the changes didn't improve much and the first seeds of doubt were sown...................
We negotiated a large roundabout which gave me a bit of time to assess the steering weight and feel, both of which were lighter and lacking in comparison with the GT3 tested earlier in the week.
Outside temp was 3 oC but felt a lot colder ! The grip seemed good, but with little or no feedback (I believe dialling in twice the camber and getting the tyres properly warmed, increases the weighting of the steering considerably) neither of which was an option today unfortunately.
Having got onto a dual carriageway I was able to give it some beans. What followed was mightily impressive and just as quick as the GT3, with a better quality of sound than the GT3 but with the Cup air filter assembly fitted as previously mentioned, no louder.
We sprinted effortlessly up to slow Autobahn cruising speeds
during which my heart dropped, as I'm sure I heard the dreaded clutch "upchange slurring" on at least one shift At these speeds the car felt very secure and planted (if a bit mundane TBH)
I tried changing up and down the box in various modes and found myself getting frustrated by my lack of smoothness even at this early stage.
By now my previously "just comfortable" seat position was becoming less so and I felt distinctly hunched up and awkard.
I experimented with the auto modes and then went back to trying S3 - 4 and finally managed some "smoother" upchanges.
However upping the revs and being more agressive brought a return of the jerky changes
I normally consider myself a pretty laid back person, but for no apparent reason I felt both very frustrated and somewhat irratated by the whole SMG thing.
With my patience rapidly dwindling (and us getting close to the dealership) I asked my assistant if he could make seamless upchanges whilst using the upper reaches of the rev range in the higher S modes, and if so, perhaps he would like to demonstrate such changes.
He leapt at the chance (being a staunch supporter of the system) and took over the driving seat. As we swapped seats I said to him "I think I could get very p***ed off with this whole SMG 'box thing very quickly"
He replied he thought it was very much a "love it or loathe it" concept and then proceeded to head down some twistier and tighter backroads (closer to the type used on the GT3 test)
I noticed this previously mild mannered man now spouted horns as the red mist decended
, and upped the ante considerably ! Here was a man totally at ease with this so far "alien" (to me) system, now traversing backroads at very illegal speeds with total confidence. The car was very impressive (from the passenger seat) and at the same speeds the GT3 was starting to loose some of its composure the CSL was "four square" and totally settled.
Even a section of road which had some nasty cresting undulations in close proximity to each other (which allowed no time for the suspension to regain from one compression to the next) and was taken at "very naughty" speeds, held no horrors (something I'm sure the GT3 would not have shrugged off with such distain)
So far all the gearchanges had been perfectly executed during this "maximum attack" assault, but then on the return run as we went up through the 'box there was an almighty bang as a gear went home, "see, even I don't get it right all the time" was his retort.
Our return was even quicker than the outbound leg
and we soon found ourselves back on the forecourt. So just what are my thoughts ?
I think I'd buy one every day................................without the SMG 'box.
Some may call me a luddite, but I personally just don't get/ see the point of the SMG system. For me, part of the pleasure of driving a car like this is having control and reacting to feedback (and cars of this ilk are honed to improve feedback through the few contact surfaces you have with them)Having now driven the CSL I think that extra £10-15K for the GT3 would be money well spent.
That and something else a friend just mailed me have almost made my mind up I think
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