Discussion
I need some opinions...
I'm looking at building something mid-engined, v8 powered and that will work well in a track environment. I can cope with considerable compromise in terms of its on road performance (currently regularly use a stripped out, roll caged mid engine car for example).
I've basically ended up with 2 cars on the short list; An Ultima GTR (prefer tin-tops) or a GT40 (probably the CAV GTR Race or Tornado TS40 with rose jointed suspension, cage etc).
Now I don't mind doing a build from scratch (in fact I'm quite tempted by this) but I'm mindful that both Ultimas and GT40s do find their way onto the 2nd hand market fairly frequently and at notionally similar pricing (lets say 30k ish for a properly built/spec example).
My understanding is that a realistic build cost for a GTR is probably around the 40k mark and a decent build of a GT40 is going to be around 5k cheaper but the real issue is which one?
The track day side of things is very important (although I do want either option to be road legal)
I want reliability and have a particular hatred of things like poor cooling design.
I've kind of come to the conclusion that when evaluating the kinds of owners of either cars it's possibly fair to say that...
The average GT40 builder normally builds a replica and it's the pursuit of accuracy which is the aim here and thus compromises which may affect it's on track prowess are likely to have been taken
The average Ultima builder seems to come a track focused point of view and thus a buit GTR is likley to be "track ready" from the get go so to speak
I've noted that GT40s tend to use the Ford 302 and Ultimas the Chevy and this is perhaps another thing that may swing me towards the Ultima option given the slightly more readily available parts,tuning options that seem to be available.
Any opinions, questions etc would be greatfully recieved...
I'm looking at building something mid-engined, v8 powered and that will work well in a track environment. I can cope with considerable compromise in terms of its on road performance (currently regularly use a stripped out, roll caged mid engine car for example).
I've basically ended up with 2 cars on the short list; An Ultima GTR (prefer tin-tops) or a GT40 (probably the CAV GTR Race or Tornado TS40 with rose jointed suspension, cage etc).
Now I don't mind doing a build from scratch (in fact I'm quite tempted by this) but I'm mindful that both Ultimas and GT40s do find their way onto the 2nd hand market fairly frequently and at notionally similar pricing (lets say 30k ish for a properly built/spec example).
My understanding is that a realistic build cost for a GTR is probably around the 40k mark and a decent build of a GT40 is going to be around 5k cheaper but the real issue is which one?
The track day side of things is very important (although I do want either option to be road legal)
I want reliability and have a particular hatred of things like poor cooling design.
I've kind of come to the conclusion that when evaluating the kinds of owners of either cars it's possibly fair to say that...
The average GT40 builder normally builds a replica and it's the pursuit of accuracy which is the aim here and thus compromises which may affect it's on track prowess are likely to have been taken
The average Ultima builder seems to come a track focused point of view and thus a buit GTR is likley to be "track ready" from the get go so to speak
I've noted that GT40s tend to use the Ford 302 and Ultimas the Chevy and this is perhaps another thing that may swing me towards the Ultima option given the slightly more readily available parts,tuning options that seem to be available.
Any opinions, questions etc would be greatfully recieved...
I know exactly what you mean,I own several V8 powered vehicles and all because I love the exhaust note.The idea of building your own car may sound like a good idea but you only have to look at previous topics to see that many owners suffer repeat problems of one sort or another and I would imagine it gets a little tedius.My car is nearing completion as we speak, so obviously, I am unable to comment on driving experience as yet but I have yet to meet an owner(or driver)that does not report favourably.
well i have owned a 98 sports for some four years and previous to this a well built kva 40 in gulf colours and a cooking 302 injected.
i can only say the ultima is a much more useable and naturally developed machine for fast road and track days. the KVA was a looker and a brute. though it was like driving a microwave on wheels.
with the KVA that early sunday morning blast left you exhausted , with the Ultima you just want more.
for looks the wife has never forgiven me for selling.
re KAV from South AFrica. i shipped the first three in for the U.K distributor it is a whole different kettle of fish. a great piece of engineering but please forget 40 Grand you will need a lot lot more.
i can only say the ultima is a much more useable and naturally developed machine for fast road and track days. the KVA was a looker and a brute. though it was like driving a microwave on wheels.
with the KVA that early sunday morning blast left you exhausted , with the Ultima you just want more.
for looks the wife has never forgiven me for selling.
re KAV from South AFrica. i shipped the first three in for the U.K distributor it is a whole different kettle of fish. a great piece of engineering but please forget 40 Grand you will need a lot lot more.
Thanks for the feedback - there's been some changes at CAV and they seem to be able to supply kits now whereas before they always seemd to be turnkey.
Suspect the only real way to know is to try and find some examples near to me and take a look.
GTWayne I know what you mean but I'm definitely not wearing rose tinted spectacles about the realities of building a car...
>> Edited by GnuBee on Wednesday 24th May 11:38
Suspect the only real way to know is to try and find some examples near to me and take a look.
GTWayne I know what you mean but I'm definitely not wearing rose tinted spectacles about the realities of building a car...
>> Edited by GnuBee on Wednesday 24th May 11:38
I looked at all the GT-40 vendors before stumbling across the Ultima by accident.
I scoured the GT-40 user forums and there was a lot of debate about quality of fabrication, quality of fit, where to get parts (no supplier has a full kit), etc. Most disturbing to me was that there was a lot of discussion along the lines of "if you have engine X connected to transaxle Y through bell housing Z then you'll need to cut this piece of the chassis and move it back 2 inches", and a lot of discussion about where to fit the flux capacitor because it won't fit in the same place on a normal engine. All that junk.
The Ultima forum, in comparison, is more about peripheral things. The GT40 forums even have topics like "what brakes to use" and "where did you get your uprights from" along with instructions on how to machine these types of parts to get them to fit.
So, after 10 years fantasizing about building and owning a GT-40, I went with the Ultima, and I love it! The kit from Ultima is very complete, and everything fits (sometimes tightly, but it still fits).
I scoured the GT-40 user forums and there was a lot of debate about quality of fabrication, quality of fit, where to get parts (no supplier has a full kit), etc. Most disturbing to me was that there was a lot of discussion along the lines of "if you have engine X connected to transaxle Y through bell housing Z then you'll need to cut this piece of the chassis and move it back 2 inches", and a lot of discussion about where to fit the flux capacitor because it won't fit in the same place on a normal engine. All that junk.
The Ultima forum, in comparison, is more about peripheral things. The GT40 forums even have topics like "what brakes to use" and "where did you get your uprights from" along with instructions on how to machine these types of parts to get them to fit.
So, after 10 years fantasizing about building and owning a GT-40, I went with the Ultima, and I love it! The kit from Ultima is very complete, and everything fits (sometimes tightly, but it still fits).
Many thanks for the input on this gentlemen. My deliberations are on-going but your comments are all appreciated. In fact the only conclusion I've come to is that I've not reached one yet! Still of the opinion that I'm going to have to do some proper leg work (i.e. not just reading forums) and go out and look at a few examples).
If any of you are @ Donington for the BookaTrack day on the 16th of June could I ask a favour; let me know - I would like the opportunity to have a chat. May also be @ Donington on the 3rd of June as well looking after our Elise and Roadsport...
If any of you are @ Donington for the BookaTrack day on the 16th of June could I ask a favour; let me know - I would like the opportunity to have a chat. May also be @ Donington on the 3rd of June as well looking after our Elise and Roadsport...
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff