budget M3?

[NDT]

is there any such thing?

I'm after a good fun car to do 15k a year in - must have some form of rear seats (for impending baby), but these won't be used often.

budget is 10-15k, so an E36 M3 is within reach and is quite tempting, despite the appalling drug dealer image of these cars.

can anyone give me an idea of running costs?
if my budget only buys me something doggy and abused, then I'll just stick with my Subaru....

[craigw]

Might sound strange but I'd be tempted to go for a saloon, possibly that appealed to a slightly different market & hence looked after better.

Not sure if its within your budget but the EVO models with the 3.2 engine & 6 speed gearbox is fantastic.

Have you also considered a Mercedes C36 or C43, both also fantastic cars & around the same price. I think they offer similar performance & may have been loked after a little better. Alternatively for a bit of exotica you could get a nice RHD Maserati Ghibli for this money.

[jumjum]

I agree with the post above,

The saloon has always been cheaper 2nd hand, the M3 engines are pretty durable and there are quite a few place now that will service them cheaply. The AMG V8s are hardly stressed at all in the C class and I have heard of people putting on 100k mileages no problem and again probably didn't get as thrashed.

The Audi s4's 96-01 (5.5 0-60 153mph) are also now coming on to the market for reasonable money, giving another alternative.

[trackdemon]

Best 'budget' M3 would surely be a lovely example of an E30 M3 EVO. One of the very best handling front engine / RWD cars ever, enough grunt with 220bhp and reliable to boot. E36 M3's just feel a bit soft in comparison, think more 330CSi..

[markda]

A friend of mine used to drive a Mercedes C36, but am fairly sure that they are *all* automatic only... If there not, then I have never seen a manual.

I am not sure what kind of M3 evo 15k will buy, but at a guess one that has done 60k+ miles. I realise its a completely different sort of car, but know someone who recently brought a late (old shape) impreza 2000/X with 15,000 miles for 12k.... It's alot newer....

[craigw]

thing is with the e30 they are all LHD and the 330i would be more than 15k I'd imagine.

c36's & c43's (I think) were all autos but I'm sure you could still have a lot of fun with them.

Markda, he already has an Impreza.

>> Edited by craigw on Friday 17th January 15:14

[craigw]

ps. Just thought of an alternative (slightly off the wall) but how about a RHD Audi RS2. Would get a decent one for 15k, much faster and probably better handling than any of the above and you can put all the babycrap in the back! (not literally )

[craigw]

Just some ideas:

1994 AUDI RS2 Avant Silver. Rare (only 180 rhd produced) low mileage Porsche developed supercar in fantastic condition inside and out, leather/alcantara electric recarro seats, blistering acceleration with standard 315 bhp . . . . (private) more info
£17,995

1997 Mercedes C36 AMG, 97/P, 49,000 miles, silver, Mercedes service history, climate control, 17 alloys, abs, cruise control, leather interior, traction control, heated electric seats, r/window blind, multi cd, . . . . (trade) more info
£13,995

1997 BMW M3 Evolution 4dr Saloon 1997 'P' reg estoril Blue.FBMWSH,long MOT. Leather seats, ABS, aircon/climate,wood pack,arm rests,10 disc cd,must sell hence price. 50000 miles. . . . . (private) more info
£14,250

[trackdemon]

1994 AUDI RS2 Avant Silver. Rare (only 180 rhd produced) low mileage Porsche developed supercar in fantastic condition inside and out, leather/alcantara electric recarro seats, blistering acceleration with standard 315 bhp . . . . (private) more info
£17,995
Dull, lifeless steering and massive understeer included free of charge courtesy of Audi engineering department's ineptitude at making a car handle properly.

1997 Mercedes C36 AMG, 97/P, 49,000 miles, silver, Mercedes service history, climate control, 17 alloys, abs, cruise control, leather interior, traction control, heated electric seats, r/window blind, multi cd, . . . . (trade) more info
£13,995
Dull lifeless steering and massive understeer included... er de ja vu? Sadly, not a car that could be described as 'fun' to drive. Very quick but no driver involvement.

1997 BMW M3 Evolution 4dr Saloon 1997 'P' reg estoril Blue.FBMWSH,long MOT. Leather seats, ABS, aircon/climate,wood pack,arm rests,10 disc cd,must sell hence price. 50000 miles. . . . . (private) more info
£14,250

Bit more like it, but the E30 is far superior as a pure driving machine (not to mention cheaper!)

My punts for 4seats + fun:

LANCIA DELTA INTEGRALE EVO 2, Petrol, Lord Blue, Hatchback, 34,138 miles , 5 Doors. ABS, Adjustable Steering Column, Air-Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, Anti-Lock Brakes, Body Coloured Bumpers, Electric Windows, Power-Assisted Steering, Warranty. £14,500.

MASERATI GHIBLI, M REG, Dark met blue, Biscuit leather, Air con, active ride, CD. £12995

NISSAN SKYLINE GT-R R33 V-SPEC, M REG, Silver, Climate, ABS, Tracker, CD £15000

E30 BMW M3 EVO, J REG, Black, Black leather, CD, Air, LHD, £12495

LANCER EVO 5 GSR, 1998, S reg . 60000 miles, Gloss black, Rallyart suspension, Bremo brakes, new OZ alloys, Sony Hi-Fi, S/S exhaust, induction kit, just been fully serviced, £15000

PORSCHE 928S4 S, Grand Prix White, Coupe, 44,000 miles . 17" CUP 2 ALLOY WHEELS Full black leather piped in white Full Porsche Service History £13995

(OK the rears are small - but kids will fit!)

Scoobydoobeedoo Imressedya RB5, 1999 REG, Finished in Steel Blue With Blue Alicantara Sports Trim, This Is One Of Only 444 Cars, Fitted With 17 Prodrive Alloys, PIAA Driving Lamps, Only 39,000 Miles From New With Full Subaru Service History £14,995.

Or how about 2 x Westfield 1700? at £7000 each

[NDT]

Gents- thanks for your suggestions so far...
I may end up keeping my WRX estate, but we're getting an MPV as well, so I don't really need an estate.

The Subaru just isn't 'special' in the way that an M3, 911 or RS2 would be...

Integrale.... always been tempted.... (but what about bits falling off?)

[CraigAlsop]

NDT said:
The Subaru just isn't 'special' in the way that an M3, 911 or RS2 would be...

How about a P1? I found it more/as special than the above cars (waits for torrents of abuse )
I think perhaps you have a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" with your Scooby - there's very little that can touch them as a practical performance package - especially not for the price.

[goodlife]

budget is 10-15k, so an E36 M3 is within reach and is quite tempting, despite the appalling drug dealer image of these cars.

I was in the same position as you recently.

It's a real buyers market for M3's right now. Heard recently of a '97 Evo that started off 6 months ago at 16k - just sold for 10.5k.

I picked up a mint(ish) '94 3.0 M3 (non Evo) for just over £7k.

Great cars, but get one with a warranty as the Vanos units can screw up - costing you at least a grand to repair.

[M3EVO]

What a load of manure! I have previously owned a 1988 E30 M3 and now currently own a 1998 M3 Evo and the E36 knocks the E30 dead in real world conditions. It is more tractable, immensely more powerful, and I will most users will not get any where near its limits. I have tightened mine up at the front with an AC Schnitzer top brace and the cross reinforcement brace from the convertible such that turn is superb. The only chance that you would ever see an E30 get near an E36 Evo is on a track round a set of lovely esses with an experienced track driver at the wheel. Every day roads would take some extreme driving at which point if the road opened up to a straight the E30 would be left standing. You can pick up a really good Evo for around £15000 now with low mileage. No one seems to want these cars anymore when really they are not much inferior to the new E46. Watch out for Vanos on the Evo as mentioned £1695 inc VAT for the repair at Barons of Farnborough. The saloon version of the E36 is rumoured to have softer springs than the Coupe or Conv.

For reference to seating- I carried the wife and I plus two more adults and luggage to Tuscany in June last year. Off the limiter at 155mph, and round the Nurburgring on the way home. No problemo.
155 (176mph unrestricted) 0-60 in 5.3secs 0-100 in 12.8 secs and 32.5mpg combined, Insp2 service £450. Name another car that does all this? All for £15k. Shove your Scoob!

[trackdemon]

M3EVO said: What a load of manure! I have previously owned a 1988 E30 M3 and now currently own a 1998 M3 Evo and the E36 knocks the E30 dead in real world conditions. It is more tractable, immensely more powerful, and I will most users will not get any where near its limits. I have tightened mine up at the front with an AC Schnitzer top brace and the cross reinforcement brace from the convertible such that turn is superb. The only chance that you would ever see an E30 get near an E36 Evo is on a track round a set of lovely esses with an experienced track driver at the wheel. Every day roads would take some extreme driving at which point if the road opened up to a straight the E30 would be left standing. You can pick up a really good Evo for around £15000 now with low mileage. No one seems to want these cars anymore when really they are not much inferior to the new E46. Watch out for Vanos on the Evo as mentioned £1695 inc VAT for the repair at Barons of Farnborough. The saloon version of the E36 is rumoured to have softer springs than the Coupe or Conv.

For reference to seating- I carried the wife and I plus two more adults and luggage to Tuscany in June last year. Off the limiter at 155mph, and round the Nurburgring on the way home. No problemo.
155 (176mph unrestricted) 0-60 in 5.3secs 0-100 in 12.8 secs and 32.5mpg combined, Insp2 service £450. Name another car that does all this? All for £15k. Shove your Scoob!

I wonder why it is so many people confuse the enjoyment / pleasure derived from driving a car as a pure speed equation? You mention lots about the superior performance of the E36 vs E30 in terms of power and presumably overall grip if I read correctly.

IMO The joy of the E30 is not the power nut what the car does with it. Against an E36 it has lower (more accessible) limits, with wonderful steering, superb balance and greater rewards for both the average and above average driver. The E36 - while a superbly competent vehicle - just cannot give the level of visceral thrills of the E30. It may be faster but it is the inferior driving machine from my experience. The E36 brings a superb level of refinement and rounded ability but in doing so loses focus on what an 'M' car should be - too refined for its own good is a common criticism.
Not to offend any E36 owners, but I'd take an E30 on the road or on track any day as a driving machine. The E36 would be the choice for long distance comfort.

[M3EVO]

Like I mentioned, real world ideals which involve long distance travel, traffic, motorway, B-road spirited driving. The E30 I had was very buzzy and required a good thrashing everywhere. I wasnt half as comfortable in traffic. At idle and low revs the engine was not unlike the Pug GTi I used to own probably due to the older fuel injection system. Yes you are not wrong about the handling of the car but I really don't think the difference is that great between the cars. The E36 is well balanced now I have added stability aids it is a great drive. Not all cars are about top speed I am aware of this but on todays roads there are more issues to take on board. The fact that the car will do 32.5mpg in comparison of 22mpg of my old E30 is a perfect example.

I believe that my knowledge of the outer limits of the car are definitely restricted however IMO the car I own now is more thrilling to drive. Plus my steering wheel is on the correct side of the car.

BTW Great debating topic!
Any other views on both cars welcome.

[okey]

I drove a standard E30 M3 at Donington in the pouring rain with standing water, have to say it could live with every thing on track round all corners, but got left for dead in the straights. Sublime forgiving.. I could go on...

I was deeply impressed. I nearly went to Germany the next day to buy one.. now thinking of racing one, but then I know if you play around with the E36 it will be a good tool.. on the Track / Road, but the E30 was well balanced straight out of the box.

[NDT]

all good stuff - thanks all
keep it coming!

>> Edited by NDT on Tuesday 21st January 08:46

>> Edited by NDT on Tuesday 21st January 08:46

[MattNM3E36]

I lost my M3 E36 back in July due to a twat driving a post office van very badly (accident still in dispute) and I'm currently downgraded to a (very nice I s'pose) 325i.

I bought the M3 from a mate who had it for 2 years when he upgraded to a 355.

I have never, ever driven such a fantastic all rounder.
The car had so much torque it was like driving an auto around town due to the small amount of gear changes neccesary

It's the only car of its price bracket that seems to put the wind up exotica drivers
(well, a few of em';-).
The only downside for me was living in the boy racer capital of the UK, Weston S Mare, it attracted all the idiots trying to race it in a Ford RS/XR, Citroen VTS, etc,etc.

I got a bargain when I bought the car from my mate but if I had the opportunity to go for another, I'd do it like a shot.

Utterly, Utterly fantastic,


(I'm now going to go and cry.......)

[M3EVO]

The unfortunate drop in prices since the arrival of the E46 has allowed said WSMare boyracers and the like the ability to get their mitts on these cars and many are receiving the MP treatment, tinted windows, underskirt lighting, follow me home lit washer jets??!??! Sad but true. Thus pushing the image even further down the drain pipe.

Expect one at your local supermarket carpark soon.

[pdavison]

Unfortunately one of the results of the falling prices will be that the Max Power boys will be able to buy them, but won't be able to maintain them properly. M3's are high performance cars and need to be looked after as such (i.e. serviced on time & according to BMW's schedule).