So who's responsible for TVR's problems?
Discussion
I've been reading threads where everyone, it seems, has a view of who's responsible for the problems at TVR. These have included:
The Media
The General Economic Climate
Reputation for Unreliability
Overpricing
The S6 Engine
The Workers
The Current Management
The Previous Management
Internet Forum Doom Mongers
And others....
My own view is that it has to be the management (both current and previous). If a company is doing well, and everything is Rosy in the garden, you can be certain that the management will happily take the credit for their successful decisions. As such, it follows that when there are problems it also has to be the responsibility of management. Accordingly, it is the TOTAL responsibility of management to:
Take responsibility for the design and development of good engines
Communicate effectively with all its staff
Control the company's costs, so that its income is greater than its outgoings
Have an effective sales & marketing strategy
Communicate effectively with the media, with a good PR machine
Make radical decisions according to the economic climate
It seems to me that both the present and previous management teams have failed in all (if not several) of the above.
The Media
The General Economic Climate
Reputation for Unreliability
Overpricing
The S6 Engine
The Workers
The Current Management
The Previous Management
Internet Forum Doom Mongers
And others....
My own view is that it has to be the management (both current and previous). If a company is doing well, and everything is Rosy in the garden, you can be certain that the management will happily take the credit for their successful decisions. As such, it follows that when there are problems it also has to be the responsibility of management. Accordingly, it is the TOTAL responsibility of management to:
Take responsibility for the design and development of good engines
Communicate effectively with all its staff
Control the company's costs, so that its income is greater than its outgoings
Have an effective sales & marketing strategy
Communicate effectively with the media, with a good PR machine
Make radical decisions according to the economic climate
It seems to me that both the present and previous management teams have failed in all (if not several) of the above.
Thirded. Peter Wheeler did nurture the marque to great success, but as with every strong 'character' (for lack of a better word) he did have a couple of blind spots that weren't counterweighted properly elsewhere in the organisation, I reckon, and he sure did pick his moment to bail out. Smolenski did have the right hunch about what needed to be done ASAP, but it seemed he might have been quite naive with regards to the enormity of the task at hand. Under both 'regimes', communication with stakeholders and customers did not seem to be a particular forte, either.
The S6 issue was unfortunate - but mostly in the way it was handled by the company. it is the innuendo and guesswork within the community following non-communication about the issues, what has been changed since the launch of the S6 etc. that allowed it to overshadow the strides made in quality elsewhere. No use to have rose-tinted glasses about the Golden Era of Chims and Griffs in this respect - TVR was once included in the JD Power survey and the Chim came out 172th of 180 models or thereabouts.
The press? Well, suffice it to say that I was rather surprised to learn that sales have been this far off this year so far, when the Sagaris and Tuscan 2 convertible in particular have seen a warmer reception than I can remember of any TVR in the past... It's also fair to say that TVRs have bagged far more column inches that they would normally have any right to given their market share even in the performance/ sports car world....
The S6 issue was unfortunate - but mostly in the way it was handled by the company. it is the innuendo and guesswork within the community following non-communication about the issues, what has been changed since the launch of the S6 etc. that allowed it to overshadow the strides made in quality elsewhere. No use to have rose-tinted glasses about the Golden Era of Chims and Griffs in this respect - TVR was once included in the JD Power survey and the Chim came out 172th of 180 models or thereabouts.
The press? Well, suffice it to say that I was rather surprised to learn that sales have been this far off this year so far, when the Sagaris and Tuscan 2 convertible in particular have seen a warmer reception than I can remember of any TVR in the past... It's also fair to say that TVRs have bagged far more column inches that they would normally have any right to given their market share even in the performance/ sports car world....
As a casual observer, here's my 2p worth.
I know nothing about what's been going on behind the scenes at the factory, it has been a long cold winter and I suspect sports car sales are down for everyone, however any company has to be able to react to changing market conitions. Ultimately a company has to stand or fall by it's products, and it's here IMO that it's all gone wrong.
If I was a normal bloke with £40K to spend, without loads of research all I see are five models, of varying degrees of ugliness, a bewildering selection of engines and list of performance specs that to all intents and purposes are hard to put a fag paper between.
It seems to me that the range has become increasingly niche and specialist, and this is alienating the more 'casual' buyer, which a company like TVR needs.
I know nothing about what's been going on behind the scenes at the factory, it has been a long cold winter and I suspect sports car sales are down for everyone, however any company has to be able to react to changing market conitions. Ultimately a company has to stand or fall by it's products, and it's here IMO that it's all gone wrong.
If I was a normal bloke with £40K to spend, without loads of research all I see are five models, of varying degrees of ugliness, a bewildering selection of engines and list of performance specs that to all intents and purposes are hard to put a fag paper between.
It seems to me that the range has become increasingly niche and specialist, and this is alienating the more 'casual' buyer, which a company like TVR needs.
mattley said:
If I was a normal bloke with £40K to spend.
Er, there are dozens of bigger companies struggling to make a profit from normal blokes with £40K to spend. If you are running a tiny outfit in this ultra-competitive market where margines are close to nil, building cars in a shed in Blackpool with no financial or engineering backing to speak of, you need to find a type of customer that's about as bonkers as you obviously are.
Someone like me in fact, only with £40K to spend..
srebbe64 said:
If I was a normal bloke with £40K to spend, without loads of research all I see are five models, of varying degrees of ugliness
Are you mad - the cars look amazing. Hang on, I just noticed, you drive a Volvo so they probably look ugly to you!
Hang on...I drive a TVR and i think he has a point (but a volvo...?). All the current cars use the same engine with varying degrees of chassis, power outputs and to some extent styling (i like some, others are so, so).
Why doesn't TVR have a small sports car contender to take on the top spec MX5, base Honda 2000, Audi TT Roadster, etc. It could have a 4 cylinder, high revving engine (chop two cylinders off the S6? It modular isn't it?)and a shortened chassis with drop dead gorgeous / aggressive styling. If it could be done for around the £30K mark it would be the entry level TVR that the tamora was supposed to be and also be a true stepping stone to the TVR range.
The Tamora/350 should be one model with coupe/convertible with base spec S6.
The Tuscan should have the top spec S6 and the sagaris? track car special?
Thing is TVR seem to have the S6 engine sorted (?), the sagaris chassis as received good reviews (the set up can be the basis for others?) and the build quality has improved (longer/better waranty that porsche?)...just need to bring out models that have the same impact as the griff and chim?
Personally i think TVR got it wrong when they deciced to build their own engines. Unneccessary expense and risk - should have stuck with a bought in V8. understand the attraction of building your own but why when the build rate is only 500 cars a year at best?
sorry to go on but am concerned / upset at the current state of affairs...hope it all turns out OK and TVR has a future in the UK.
Definitely the management, and I think the main problem came from the previous incumbants, but the present lot have made it a lot worse from what I see. Peter Wheeler had his faults but at the end of the day look at where he brought the company from and to. Really he should have got out sooner, but that is not always easy.
As we all know The Griff & Chim were TVR's most successful models and the Tuscan was a natural progression. IMO and with hindsight a little more development was needed to make the car more reliable - that said I have a 2001 car with no real dramas, (yes failed clutches one leaving mde stranded in Morocco, ECU problems and having to change throttle bodies). The Tuscan should also have been able to sell in multiple markets, if this was done I believe PW could have capitalised on the success of the Griff & Chim and the marketing attention the Tuscan was recieving and sell to a big player to take the company to the next stage.
My feeling is because the Tuscan was not approved for multiple markets none of the big boys were interested - that is where I think the mistake was. Adding all future models since the Tuscan has only made matters worse, there would have not been any problems being a one car manufacturer at the end of the day it offered the best of both rag top and fixed head. It would also give time for a new portfolio of cars to be design and developed throughly.
Problem is they are where they are now. Someone will pick it up, but not sure on what the immediate strategy could be for revenue. My feeling is they should maybe not think about any revenue from current line up and put together a first class design & development team and ready a new car with a new platform as soon as realistically possible, but don't rush development. In the meantime they should put together a strategy to build up the heritage of the marque with a Blackpool based works service and heritage centre and get some blooody good pr going so when the new car/s hits they hit the ground running.
As we all know The Griff & Chim were TVR's most successful models and the Tuscan was a natural progression. IMO and with hindsight a little more development was needed to make the car more reliable - that said I have a 2001 car with no real dramas, (yes failed clutches one leaving mde stranded in Morocco, ECU problems and having to change throttle bodies). The Tuscan should also have been able to sell in multiple markets, if this was done I believe PW could have capitalised on the success of the Griff & Chim and the marketing attention the Tuscan was recieving and sell to a big player to take the company to the next stage.
My feeling is because the Tuscan was not approved for multiple markets none of the big boys were interested - that is where I think the mistake was. Adding all future models since the Tuscan has only made matters worse, there would have not been any problems being a one car manufacturer at the end of the day it offered the best of both rag top and fixed head. It would also give time for a new portfolio of cars to be design and developed throughly.
Problem is they are where they are now. Someone will pick it up, but not sure on what the immediate strategy could be for revenue. My feeling is they should maybe not think about any revenue from current line up and put together a first class design & development team and ready a new car with a new platform as soon as realistically possible, but don't rush development. In the meantime they should put together a strategy to build up the heritage of the marque with a Blackpool based works service and heritage centre and get some blooody good pr going so when the new car/s hits they hit the ground running.
You missed :
US
From your list.
We are the cause of all TVR's problems.
If "WE" had kept buying TVR's then Wheeler would never have sold and there would have been no problems
Why we stopped buying enought of them is another question.. think we have covered what we would change at TVR about a million times and one seemed interested in what the customers thought
US
From your list.
We are the cause of all TVR's problems.
If "WE" had kept buying TVR's then Wheeler would never have sold and there would have been no problems
Why we stopped buying enought of them is another question.. think we have covered what we would change at TVR about a million times and one seemed interested in what the customers thought
rev-erend said:
think we have covered what we would change at TVR about a million times and one seemed interested in what the customers thought
On another thread someone said "be careful the factory read this" or words to that effect ,, well whoopy fecking doo so what , they never seemed to listen before did they so whats the problem now
An element of truth Rev, for sure. But customers are reactive - "we" only stopped buying because of things TVR did/didn't do.
The Speed Six had real problems at its root but the damage was done by a mixture of stony silence or PR gaffs that simply served to amplify the problem. The heart of the S6 problem appears to have gone. Or has it....?
That's the problem with 'saying nowt' -it leaves people to make up their own minds.
This week's reduction in staff and factory move news have also now suffered from the same TVR malaise. Not a fat lot of use having the world's news media report the end of TVR and then put a lengthy bit of blurb on the TVR web site today in response. The world watches the news, it doesn't watch www.tvr.co.uk.
The only place for blame in the TVR fiasco is TVR and the buck stops with the management. Blithering idiots.
The Speed Six had real problems at its root but the damage was done by a mixture of stony silence or PR gaffs that simply served to amplify the problem. The heart of the S6 problem appears to have gone. Or has it....?
That's the problem with 'saying nowt' -it leaves people to make up their own minds. This week's reduction in staff and factory move news have also now suffered from the same TVR malaise. Not a fat lot of use having the world's news media report the end of TVR and then put a lengthy bit of blurb on the TVR web site today in response. The world watches the news, it doesn't watch www.tvr.co.uk.
The only place for blame in the TVR fiasco is TVR and the buck stops with the management. Blithering idiots.
srebbe64 said:
If I was a normal bloke with £40K to spend, without loads of research all I see are five models, of varying degrees of ugliness
Are you mad - the cars look amazing.
No, Steve, they do not.
What cars did TVR sell the most of?
The Griffith. The Chimaera.
Why? They were lovely. But not just that - they looked "classic" in a way that the new cars do not. There is something of "Max Power" to some of TVRs new bodyshapes. Whilst they do look mad, evil you name it, they also not evoke the desire to own one in the Company's most important demographic.
For every young buck who has made a fortune there are a dozen old farts (I'm thinking our age and older) who have the money to buy one - and I'm not sure the old farts want to grow old quite so disgracefully...
Just my 2p. I also think TVR have tried a range of brave moves during times that are not kind and in a market with swiftly increasing levels of competition from the accepted high quality mass market brands.
The enthusiasts will always have a TVR over anything else. But it wasn't 2000 enthusiasts a year that provided TVR with their peak of production. It was people who wanted to buy a good value, powerful sports car - and as to which brand - it could have been a number. And now - with everyone from BMW to Lexus producing high powered two seater convertibles - their choices have become very wide.
Ready for a flaming, Don?
I agree a Sagaris will not appeal to everyones tastes, but the same with Griff and Chims.. to say they are Max Power is ridiculous quite honestly..
Comments like that, and the SP6 doom-mongers along with bad management on TVRs part is the problem if you ask me.
Dave.
I agree a Sagaris will not appeal to everyones tastes, but the same with Griff and Chims.. to say they are Max Power is ridiculous quite honestly..
Comments like that, and the SP6 doom-mongers along with bad management on TVRs part is the problem if you ask me.
Dave.
Hi all,
I gotta say, and this is from a Chim owner, i feel the Chim looks the product of the age it was built. Its a classic style but would it sell as many in the 2000's as it did in the 90's? definitely not.
Remember the Chim was available up until 2001 ish (correct me if im wrong) with faired in lights etc but the sales had definitely tailed off from its peak in the 90's.
I love my Chim. Don't get me wrong but i have to say i think the Tuscan looks absolutely outstanding. Anyone who can say honestly that the Tuscan is not an achingly good looking car needs to go to Spec-Savers.
(I hope my Chim. isnt listenening. Don't want to walk to work tomorrow!
)
I gotta say, and this is from a Chim owner, i feel the Chim looks the product of the age it was built. Its a classic style but would it sell as many in the 2000's as it did in the 90's? definitely not.
Remember the Chim was available up until 2001 ish (correct me if im wrong) with faired in lights etc but the sales had definitely tailed off from its peak in the 90's.
I love my Chim. Don't get me wrong but i have to say i think the Tuscan looks absolutely outstanding. Anyone who can say honestly that the Tuscan is not an achingly good looking car needs to go to Spec-Savers.
(I hope my Chim. isnt listenening. Don't want to walk to work tomorrow!
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