S2000 vs BMW Z3 3.0
Discussion
Hi there,
With a budget of 11K which do you think is the best bet for everyday use. The honda has the best hadnling and reliability record. The BMW has the better engine (IMO) and is slightly more comfortable. Looks, not sure, actually quite like the BMW.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Martin.
With a budget of 11K which do you think is the best bet for everyday use. The honda has the best hadnling and reliability record. The BMW has the better engine (IMO) and is slightly more comfortable. Looks, not sure, actually quite like the BMW.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Martin.
i have had the opportunity to have a look at both of these cars in the showroom and i think that they are both great. the BMW is very nice inside and out it feels better built inside and out too, but it doesen't feel as sporty as the the S2000. i think if i had the opportunity to own one of these cars i would have the Honda as it is just so much more driver orrientated and it is the better one to drive for quick blasts etc and i prefer the way it looks. see if you can get a GT model in your budget its got more extras (hardtop and some other things) it is more desirable.
good luck!
FMC.
>> Edited by forthright MC on Wednesday 19th April 17:34
good luck!
FMC.
>> Edited by forthright MC on Wednesday 19th April 17:34
I bought a 2nd-hand S2000 ('02 model) a month ago, and absolutely love it. But I've never driven the Z3 to compare, so this will be purely a critique of the S2000, with my opinions on the Z.
Driving the S2000:-
- Nice engine note on-song. Decent induction bark under acceleration in the mid-range. But sounds like a sewing-machine at idle. The BM I6 is likely to be more tuneful, except maybe at full-chat.
- It IS a peaky engine, esp. compared to the BM lump. And never feels quite it's full complement of ponies. But it's most definitely quick enough, unless you're in the habit of traffic-light drag-races, where the tall 1st and peaky delivery will disappoint. Mid-range not bad, strong-enough to keep up with diesel repmobiles and just enough to not worry about thrashing it on a flowing cross-country drive. But again the BM will be better.
- not a lot of detail in the steering feel, but when driving along you get plenty of info through the chassis, and the steering feels properly weighted, which gives confidence.
- when tyres are warm, it's got a LOT of mechanical grip, and it feels contrallable and progressive, despite it's rep. Still easy to get the tail out with too much throttle, but unless you're hammering around (which given the S's limits will be very quick), you do feel in control of it. I like it, which coming from a DC2 Integra is pretty fair praise. But you need to drive it in a different manner to fwd, obviously.
- on cold tyres / in the wet, you do need to drive in a sensible manner - there's not a lot of notice before the back goes in these conditions, although alternative tyres (Toyo T1R's) apparently do improve both matters, at the expense of a little turn-in sharpness (which it could probably lose OK).
- steering is quick-racked, at 2.5 turns lock-lock. Makes it easy to collect the tail if it does go on you - had a couple of surprises in dry on cold tyres and neither got beyond about 25-30 degrees tail-out.
Inside:-
- Seats are comfy, driving position is perfect, except for a slightly too-wide gap between accelerator and brake - h&t is possible but needs practice! Steering wheel looks sporty and purposeful. Digital dash, although I thought would look tacky, actually is really easy to comprehend. All the main controls are driver-focused and at your fingertips. Enough space around that you never feel cramped (cosy, yes), and you're not on-top-of your passenger (as you are in an Elise).
- Audio is adequate but not scintillating. Speaker upgrade or headrest speakers recommended if you want to listen to tunes top-down at 60+ Stereo controls a little fiddly, and it looks like an older after-market, but it's enough unless you're fussy.
- Interior storage limited, but centre-console glovebox stores CDs and glasses cases nicely, and you can fit an atlas behind/under the passenger seat.
- Everything feels tight and well-screwed together. Plastics feel pretty good quality in the main. It feels quality, I'd be surprised if the Z3 matches it.
- Kit isn't overly generous, but all UK-sourced cars come with a/c and alarm, cd-stereo, and leather interior. What else do you need?
Exterior:-
- Alloys have a corrosion problem - surface pitting caused by brake-dust etc. Check them carefully, factor a refurb into account if buying private...and they're diamond-cut, so a refurb MIGHT be a bit pricier than normal.
- Paint is thin - it will stone-chip on the nose easily.
- No side-strips, so car-park dings are a risk.
- But...it looks (IMHO, of course) the absolute mutt's - very purposeful and aggressive, probably the least-hairdresser'y soft-top this side of a Chimaera, much better than Boxster/Z3/Z4/MX5/MR2...
- Also, on the older cars, check out suspension bushes - the adjustment bolts, on SOME cars, have seized, and replacing is currently pricey. S2ki has more info. IMHO you'll need to be a good driver to notice, esp. if they've seized in-tolerance. But it might be a factor. Handling IS sensitive to suspension geometry, I'm told...but I can only guess mine's still spot-on as I've not noticed any problems at all.
In summary, I like it a lot - I think it's a perfect weekend car, and just practical enough to be a fun-but-liveable everyday car.
Vs Z3? IMHO, it looks better, is built better, will handle a lot better, and the Honda-used-warranties are better. But the Z3 3.0 will probably be straight-line quicker, sound better (I guess), and have a more prestigious badge. Ultimately, drive 'em both - I never thought I'd end up with the S2000 when I was looking, but when I drove it it pushed the right buttons!!!
Driving the S2000:-
- Nice engine note on-song. Decent induction bark under acceleration in the mid-range. But sounds like a sewing-machine at idle. The BM I6 is likely to be more tuneful, except maybe at full-chat.
- It IS a peaky engine, esp. compared to the BM lump. And never feels quite it's full complement of ponies. But it's most definitely quick enough, unless you're in the habit of traffic-light drag-races, where the tall 1st and peaky delivery will disappoint. Mid-range not bad, strong-enough to keep up with diesel repmobiles and just enough to not worry about thrashing it on a flowing cross-country drive. But again the BM will be better.
- not a lot of detail in the steering feel, but when driving along you get plenty of info through the chassis, and the steering feels properly weighted, which gives confidence.
- when tyres are warm, it's got a LOT of mechanical grip, and it feels contrallable and progressive, despite it's rep. Still easy to get the tail out with too much throttle, but unless you're hammering around (which given the S's limits will be very quick), you do feel in control of it. I like it, which coming from a DC2 Integra is pretty fair praise. But you need to drive it in a different manner to fwd, obviously.
- on cold tyres / in the wet, you do need to drive in a sensible manner - there's not a lot of notice before the back goes in these conditions, although alternative tyres (Toyo T1R's) apparently do improve both matters, at the expense of a little turn-in sharpness (which it could probably lose OK).
- steering is quick-racked, at 2.5 turns lock-lock. Makes it easy to collect the tail if it does go on you - had a couple of surprises in dry on cold tyres and neither got beyond about 25-30 degrees tail-out.
Inside:-
- Seats are comfy, driving position is perfect, except for a slightly too-wide gap between accelerator and brake - h&t is possible but needs practice! Steering wheel looks sporty and purposeful. Digital dash, although I thought would look tacky, actually is really easy to comprehend. All the main controls are driver-focused and at your fingertips. Enough space around that you never feel cramped (cosy, yes), and you're not on-top-of your passenger (as you are in an Elise).
- Audio is adequate but not scintillating. Speaker upgrade or headrest speakers recommended if you want to listen to tunes top-down at 60+ Stereo controls a little fiddly, and it looks like an older after-market, but it's enough unless you're fussy.
- Interior storage limited, but centre-console glovebox stores CDs and glasses cases nicely, and you can fit an atlas behind/under the passenger seat.
- Everything feels tight and well-screwed together. Plastics feel pretty good quality in the main. It feels quality, I'd be surprised if the Z3 matches it.
- Kit isn't overly generous, but all UK-sourced cars come with a/c and alarm, cd-stereo, and leather interior. What else do you need?
Exterior:-
- Alloys have a corrosion problem - surface pitting caused by brake-dust etc. Check them carefully, factor a refurb into account if buying private...and they're diamond-cut, so a refurb MIGHT be a bit pricier than normal.
- Paint is thin - it will stone-chip on the nose easily.
- No side-strips, so car-park dings are a risk.
- But...it looks (IMHO, of course) the absolute mutt's - very purposeful and aggressive, probably the least-hairdresser'y soft-top this side of a Chimaera, much better than Boxster/Z3/Z4/MX5/MR2...
- Also, on the older cars, check out suspension bushes - the adjustment bolts, on SOME cars, have seized, and replacing is currently pricey. S2ki has more info. IMHO you'll need to be a good driver to notice, esp. if they've seized in-tolerance. But it might be a factor. Handling IS sensitive to suspension geometry, I'm told...but I can only guess mine's still spot-on as I've not noticed any problems at all.
In summary, I like it a lot - I think it's a perfect weekend car, and just practical enough to be a fun-but-liveable everyday car.
Vs Z3? IMHO, it looks better, is built better, will handle a lot better, and the Honda-used-warranties are better. But the Z3 3.0 will probably be straight-line quicker, sound better (I guess), and have a more prestigious badge. Ultimately, drive 'em both - I never thought I'd end up with the S2000 when I was looking, but when I drove it it pushed the right buttons!!!
havoc said:
cool critique of the S2000
Excellent post! We'll have one of these once the other car's passed it's sell by date, always had a soft spot for the Honda, not as 'nannying' as some other premium sportscars.
Also, I wonder if the BMW badge is still as coveted as it once was, there are loads on the roads now, I see more beemers than Fords! (although there's no denying the proper M versions are fantastic!)
>> Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 19th April 18:26
They're like chalk and cheese, depends if you'd prefer and engine with grunt, or one you have to work. The Z3 can do the cruiser part, whereas the Honda always feels like a race car.
My S2000 was the worst car I've ever owned. Along with the dreadful reliability, I hated the fact you had to thrash it make progress. The tall first gear made it difficult to have fun at low speeds, then cross country there never seemed to be the right gear. Motorways were often 4th, 5th, 6th, 4th, 5th, 6th to get past slower traffic.
If it was a competition car limited to 2 litres I'd understand the engine. Seeing as they had a blank sheet I'd have liked a lot more torque.
I understand the later cars were much better than mine.
Gear change is the best I've ever experienced, and it was always well received.
My S2000 was the worst car I've ever owned. Along with the dreadful reliability, I hated the fact you had to thrash it make progress. The tall first gear made it difficult to have fun at low speeds, then cross country there never seemed to be the right gear. Motorways were often 4th, 5th, 6th, 4th, 5th, 6th to get past slower traffic.
If it was a competition car limited to 2 litres I'd understand the engine. Seeing as they had a blank sheet I'd have liked a lot more torque.
I understand the later cars were much better than mine.
Gear change is the best I've ever experienced, and it was always well received.
mungo said:
I'd go for the S2000
As for Z3's, the only one I would go for is a M coupe
Gorgeous cars, so much presence, esp. in the lairier colours - saw a gold one on the M1 today. But...Z3M for 11k will probably be saving up for big bills in the engine...go read the threads about BMW's attitude to M-car warranties currently.
Hammerwerfer -
oops! I thought it went without saying...honest! But agreed - cold it's a little notchy, warm it's the best gearchange I've EVER used, any car. GT vs normal - only real addition is the hardtop, depends if you've space to stow it and you feel you'll need it, i.e. if you leave the car outside in all weathers, if you'll notice the extra sound/weather-proofing in winter.
M-way driving...NOT the S's forte, it's more at home on A- and B-roads, but more due to feeling lower and more vulnerable...and itching to drive it properly!!!
But I don't find it a problem, no more so than any other car in it's class. And I wouldn't say you need to use 4th except to make a point to someone ...and even then the gearchange is so good it's as easy to do 6th-4th as it is to do 6th-5th (I'm serious!). The complaint about mid-range is over-stated - unless you're used to big-cube or turbo sports-cars, it's enough, esp for M-way cruising - IMHO it can keep pace with a 320d or similar without hitting VTEC. If it's an old car, get it DEKRA'd, particularly alloys and suspension adjustment bolts, then get a Hondacare warranty for c.300 notes. Job done, fantastic sports car on drive!!! Look on S2ki at the for-sale threads - there's always a range on there, and they'll have been enthusiast-owned (don't worry about them possibly thrashing it a bit more - the engine will take it all day long if you keep it oiled!). Also check the thread about S2000-4U - some mixed posts, inconclusive. So not 'don't go there', but if you do, do it with your eyes wide open.
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