forgive my ignorance...
Discussion
Hi all, forgive my lack of knowledge in this area, but haven't really researched much into the whole advanced driving malarkey yet.
I've had a look at a couple of posts in this section and in particular the post about gear changing smoothly. It seems that to change smoothly, you need to be quite gradual with your clutch inputs, which I do when not going too fast say 6/10ths, but what happens if you want to go faster? Is it still possible to maintain the smoothness, or is this system of driving only intended for brisk, rather than fast progress?
Secondly, how do I find out more about advanced driving? I have been out a couple of times with my godfather who is an advanced driver and traffic policeman, and he gave me some interesting and very helpful pointers. He has offered to take me out again, but finding the time when we are both free can be difficult. Are there other sources of information other than directly from an instructor/observer?
Cheers
I've had a look at a couple of posts in this section and in particular the post about gear changing smoothly. It seems that to change smoothly, you need to be quite gradual with your clutch inputs, which I do when not going too fast say 6/10ths, but what happens if you want to go faster? Is it still possible to maintain the smoothness, or is this system of driving only intended for brisk, rather than fast progress?
Secondly, how do I find out more about advanced driving? I have been out a couple of times with my godfather who is an advanced driver and traffic policeman, and he gave me some interesting and very helpful pointers. He has offered to take me out again, but finding the time when we are both free can be difficult. Are there other sources of information other than directly from an instructor/observer?
Cheers
Smoothness is more important than speed with the gear changes. You can only go as fast as you can be smooth with the change.
If you want to do something more formal around roadcraft then you can look at IAM or RoADA etc which are not expensive & run by volunteer groups.
If it's just advice there are resources all over the net (obviously including here)
(you can try places like www.advanced-driving.co.uk there are others if you search around. )
>> Edited by vonhosen on Monday 17th April 08:58
If you want to do something more formal around roadcraft then you can look at IAM or RoADA etc which are not expensive & run by volunteer groups.
If it's just advice there are resources all over the net (obviously including here)
(you can try places like www.advanced-driving.co.uk there are others if you search around. )
>> Edited by vonhosen on Monday 17th April 08:58
toast boy said:
Hi all, forgive my lack of knowledge in this area, but haven't really researched much into the whole advanced driving malarkey yet.
I've had a look at a couple of posts in this section and in particular the post about gear changing smoothly. It seems that to change smoothly, you need to be quite gradual with your clutch inputs, which I do when not going too fast say 6/10ths, but what happens if you want to go faster? Is it still possible to maintain the smoothness, or is this system of driving only intended for brisk, rather than fast progress?
Secondly, how do I find out more about advanced driving? I have been out a couple of times with my godfather who is an advanced driver and traffic policeman, and he gave me some interesting and very helpful pointers. He has offered to take me out again, but finding the time when we are both free can be difficult. Are there other sources of information other than directly from an instructor/observer?
Cheers
Liebchen
1. Visit the website www.iam.org.uk where you can get some detail of IAM und its objectives.
Quite a decent press release about "PRACTICE MAKING PERFECT"
But stressed need for coaching.. why they have a "Skill for Life" scheme which include coaching.
You can get details of local IAM group from this site und I would suggest attending their meetings und get togethers to get to know more as well as learn useful tips. (My sister ist active in her patch as are one or two other family members. Kittens .. for me .. too many .. cannot juggle the time...but Mad Doc does some observations up here when he find time.)
They have a couple of publications which you may find a useful read
"How to Pass Your Advanced Driving/Motor Cycling Tests"
What they look for in the 90 minute drive covering around 40 miles on all kinds of roads?
Basic professional workman/businesslike skills - no fancy handbrake turns, sideways cornerings und the stuff we do on track
Ist not about Steve Sutclifffe's recent series in "autocar" which was more about how to get most out of a track day than your average tootle down the M6 He ist not looking und I quote from back of the IAM book "for exxaggerated ly SLOW speeds nor excessive signalling. You have to show that you are not afrad to cruise at the LEGAL limit when circumstances permit - und progress with safety. There will be spot checks on observation und hazard perception as well .. ist COAST
led. They look for what they call the five S's.
1. Safety - ist NUMBER ONE PRIORITY Per website "Even where optimum progress would be nice - position und speed must be put aside und sacrificed for safety"
Put car in danger und you FAIL it. Und rightly so!
2. Systematic - this ist the COAST meet Roadcraft bit
This ist risk assessing und prioritising your hazards - leaving nothing to luck or chance. - und basically
you concentrate (nice relaxed concentration as you use when following a plot in book or film -= watching the characters
- assessing und anticipating the outcome of the plot .. you observe everything.. use sight for all road users, road markings, lollies .. feet und balls under parked cars, reflections in shop windows, smell of cut grass, sound of motorbike, truck, tractor, children playing...
und you anticipate und order the hazards und danger to YOU und others based on this.. und decide on your plan - und consider how this affect another road user as well in you risk assess of situation
Und in your plan - you allow
Space - select correct gear ...adjust speed/position/ und
Time to react appropriately ...
Ist C.O.A.S.T. Ist correct system
3. Smoothness - This ist your actual control - your passenger should not feel travel sick
- your ride should be smooth - wathch those potholes - you should never appear to be rushed or hurried - but calm. It also means your gear change should not be jerky - matching speed to engine. No labouring stress
My Papa - all those years ago - had me drive on track with large saucer und a golf ball rolling in it. If ball popped out - I was too rough
Watch your passenger if you can - if their head bobs slightly - you are maybe snatching a little. Ask them what they think of your gear changes - part of being a decent drivers ist being able to accept constructive criticism.
4. SPEEEED! Ist approporiate?
Per their website on what examiner ist looking for und I quote for benefit of lieber von
" The ability to make the best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so ist an importand skill which every advanced driver should possess
But you do NOT/MUST NEVER
compromise safety und they do not expect you to break speed limits on the test. They do say on this page that "Advanced drivers never speed" but I think I will believe the moon ist made of cream cheeses before I swallow that one
5. Sparkle - this ist the one which set wheat from chaff
Ist the overall assessement of your drive. Showing consistency in Safe, Systematic, Smooth und Polished. Ist about the correct gear for speed, position, und the golden ROADCRAFT und SAFESPEED RULE you can always stop the vehicle safely und smoothly on your own side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear
Hope this help you ..und Triple Dave - und good luck !
WildCat said:
4. SPEEEED! Ist approporiate?
Per their website on what examiner ist looking for und I quote for benefit of lieber von
" The ability to make the best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so ist an importand skill which every advanced driver should possess
For my benefit ?
For your benefit
Yes good progress "within & up to" the limits is what they will say.
If you don't believe me give IAM house a bell to get their stance on it
IAM website said:
The Advanced Driving Test lasts for about 90 minutes and will usually cover between 30 and 40 miles along all types of road (town driving, motorways (if available) or dual carriageways, and even country lanes).
Your Examiner will hold a Police Advanced Driving certificate (either serving or ex Police Class 1) and will have extensive experience from working within the Traffic sections of the Police Force.
The Test gives a thorough workout of driving ability, allowing the candidate to alter their drive according to the conditions and environment of the road. The types of road vary from quiet country roads, motorways to busy town centres. In each case there are hazards and situations that need to be avoided and taken care of using the methods and techniques that advanced driving gives. There may be situations where the candidate can show flair and panache (or what we term as Sparkle) on an open country road where optimum progress can be gained at maximum safety, using optimum road positioning and excellent observation. All this combines to give a brisk smooth drive, at the legal limit on the open road. In other situations, the candidate will need to show restraint and composure to deal with tricky hazards that may become apparent throughout the drive. Such as in a town centre situation, where observation is used to pick out hazards in situations that are constantly changing. The main objective is that the candidate has to perform well in all situations rather than excel in one.
Many people often comment on the Test after taking it and more often than not, the comments revolve around how much they enjoyed the drive. On Test the candidate gets to "show off" the new skills that they have been tuning for the weeks during their course. The Advanced Driving Test IS NOT EASY but is within the reach of most motorists with the right guidance.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Monday 17th April 11:52
From the website
www.iam.org.uk/Advancedtest/speed.php
Do You Use "Speed" correctly and appropriately ?
One aspect of advanced driving is something that these days has made many stories in the Press. Speed. The ability to make best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so is an important skill that an advanced driver should possess Remember though, SAFETY should NEVER be compromised.
It should also be noted that even though speed may be used to give a brisk drive, it may only be used when safe and appropriate to do so. Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit or if the use of speed is inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit, are dangerous and is unacceptable. It must be remembered that speed limits are exactly that. Limits - not targets. Advanced drivers use their skill and awareness to decide when they should impose their own speed limits, below the statutory speed limits depending on the circumstances. Advanced drivers never speed, and are not above the law.
Ist what we have been saying.. you sometimes drive BELOW the limit .. und too many continue at 30 mph because of that stupid advert telling them they will not kill someone
Und the bit about not being afraid to cruise a legal limit so long as safe .. from page 79 of "How to Pass the Test"
www.iam.org.uk/Advancedtest/speed.php
Do You Use "Speed" correctly and appropriately ?
One aspect of advanced driving is something that these days has made many stories in the Press. Speed. The ability to make best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so is an important skill that an advanced driver should possess Remember though, SAFETY should NEVER be compromised.
It should also be noted that even though speed may be used to give a brisk drive, it may only be used when safe and appropriate to do so. Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit or if the use of speed is inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit, are dangerous and is unacceptable. It must be remembered that speed limits are exactly that. Limits - not targets. Advanced drivers use their skill and awareness to decide when they should impose their own speed limits, below the statutory speed limits depending on the circumstances. Advanced drivers never speed, and are not above the law.
Ist what we have been saying.. you sometimes drive BELOW the limit .. und too many continue at 30 mph because of that stupid advert telling them they will not kill someone
Und the bit about not being afraid to cruise a legal limit so long as safe .. from page 79 of "How to Pass the Test"
Und in any case lieber von.. I did point out that they do not expect you to break the limit on the test
They say on the site that "Advanced drivers never speed" - but we all know that ist not necessarily the case
Not that I speed of course In Germany I drive as the natives do und on track.. of course I reach speeds of 3 figures.. 
But in Lakes.. one of the few who observe the 20 mph lollies ...und urban drives - very rarely above 27 mph. But like anyone else - I watch out for blips as they happen depending on road gradient und surface.
They say on the site that "Advanced drivers never speed" - but we all know that ist not necessarily the case
Not that I speed of course
In Germany I drive as the natives do und on track.. of course I reach speeds of 3 figures.. But in Lakes.. one of the few who observe the 20 mph lollies ...und urban drives - very rarely above 27 mph. But like anyone else - I watch out for blips as they happen depending on road gradient und surface. WildCat said:
From the website
www.iam.org.uk/Advancedtest/speed.php
Do You Use "Speed" correctly and appropriately ?
One aspect of advanced driving is something that these days has made many stories in the Press. Speed. The ability to make best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so is an important skill that an advanced driver should possess Remember though, SAFETY should NEVER be compromised.
It should also be noted that even though speed may be used to give a brisk drive, it may only be used when safe and appropriate to do so. Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit or if the use of speed is inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit, are dangerous and is unacceptable. It must be remembered that speed limits are exactly that. Limits - not targets. Advanced drivers use their skill and awareness to decide when they should impose their own speed limits, below the statutory speed limits depending on the circumstances.
I've remphasised the bits you missed out with bold highlighting, that were important in the IAMs stance.
Still we are taking the OPs original post off topic. Being an advanced driver is about far more than driving at speed, so I'll leave it at that.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Monday 17th April 12:52
The bits in bold tell the lie you forgot to point out:
Edited to add: no speed limit was broken in the construction of this post
And again to add, perhaps the statement refers to danger to bank balance and insurance premium, in which case it is totally accurate.
>> Edited by turbobloke on Monday 17th April 13:11
vonhosen said:Exceeding a speed limit is almost always perfectly safe, so taken in the worst light why should the rest be credible? This should say "exceeding the speed limit is illegal" and leave it at that, though if it were being totally honest it would say "illegal but, as performed day in day out by millions of motorists, almost always safe".
Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit or if the use of speed is inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit, are dangerous
Edited to add: no speed limit was broken in the construction of this post
And again to add, perhaps the statement refers to danger to bank balance and insurance premium, in which case it is totally accurate.
>> Edited by turbobloke on Monday 17th April 13:11
vonhosen said:
From the website
www.iam.org.uk/Advancedtest/speed.php
Do You Use "Speed" correctly and appropriately ?
One aspect of advanced driving is something that these days has made many stories in the Press. Speed. The ability to make best use of speed to make good progress when safe to do so is an important skill that an advanced driver should possess Remember though, SAFETY should NEVER be compromised.
It should also be noted that even though speed may be used to give a brisk drive, it may only be used when safe and appropriate to do so. Any excessive speed above the statutory speed limit or if the use of speed is inappropriate for the circumstances regardless of any limit, are dangerous and is unacceptable. It must be remembered that speed limits are exactly that. Limits - not targets. Advanced drivers use their skill and awareness to decide when they should impose their own speed limits, below the statutory speed limits depending on the circumstances.
I've remphasised the bits you missed out with bold highlighting, that were important in the IAMs stance.
Still we are taking the OPs original post off topic. Being an advanced driver is about far more than driving at speed, so I'll leave it at that.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Monday 17th April 12:52
Liebchen
My post did NOT focus on the speed alone as you very well know!
Speed ist on that page in fourth position of importance with "Sparkle/Style" being the consolidation of the four S factors.
The reply directed him to the website und I quoted from that website und the Handbook. One paragraph alone deals with speed - und my comment ist that ist just not true that IAM drivers NEVER speed .. because we all know that all drivers will blip above on any one drive anyway - with most of us correcting these blips anyway.
Ist you who ist fatening on one point made only
turbobloke said:
I'm very chilled actually. I spend most of my time at the keyboard here laughing
That I can agree with
Ist chatting.. exchanging ideas und I try out my English too. I still seem not to be winning with my fingers hitting u und an extra t .. but as Mad Doc says - how I sound in real life anyway. Hi,
If your godfather is a Traffic cop, then you have a brilliant source of free advice. To be honest, you'll get even better advice from a police Traffic officer than from the IAM or RoSPA. Traffic officers are generally trained to an exceptionally high standard, well beyond any civilian advanced drivers.
Enjoy developing your driving and have fun
Edited to say that reading Roadcraft and/or watching the Roadcraft DVD would be very valuable too.
Book: www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/
DVD: www.spservices.co.uk/product_info.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Thursday 27th April 18:43
If your godfather is a Traffic cop, then you have a brilliant source of free advice. To be honest, you'll get even better advice from a police Traffic officer than from the IAM or RoSPA. Traffic officers are generally trained to an exceptionally high standard, well beyond any civilian advanced drivers.
Enjoy developing your driving and have fun
Edited to say that reading Roadcraft and/or watching the Roadcraft DVD would be very valuable too.
Book: www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/
DVD: www.spservices.co.uk/product_info.
>> Edited by Mark_SV on Thursday 27th April 18:43
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