Getting the right one
Discussion
Hi,
I've been looking at possibly getting a 3R for a few months now, and have been doing some research.
I've talked to a few owners, went to the NOC day at Brands Hatch, and read many posts on this forum.
There is one question which I am still unsure about, and I would welcome your input/points of view on it please:
Basically, I would be buying a used car privately and the crux of the matter is this:
How do I recognise a good car, and avoid a potential problem one?
Looking at the cars advertised, "good" factors mentioned appear to be:
Low mileage, Never been tracked, Perfect condition, etc...
BUT, a car which has not been tracked may have been driven hard from cold, may have been thrashed and then the engine turned off (without letting the turbos spool down and engine cool down)
Similarly, a car with low mileage may have been driven in a similar manner on many short trips.
Also cars without stone chips may have been resprayed etc..
Conversely, a car which has been tracked is likely to have been driven hard, but may have been looked after properly, with more regular oil changes, and warmed up/cooled down properly.
In short, I realise a car which has been tracked may be better than one which has not (but then again it may be worse)
So please, what advice do you have on what to look for, and are there any ways to spot the better car?
Or am I simply never going to be really able to tell?
Also, for anyone who has already been through this process, how did you approach it, and what factors made you decide on one particular example above another?
Many many thanks for your input,
Conrad.
I've been looking at possibly getting a 3R for a few months now, and have been doing some research.
I've talked to a few owners, went to the NOC day at Brands Hatch, and read many posts on this forum.
There is one question which I am still unsure about, and I would welcome your input/points of view on it please:
Basically, I would be buying a used car privately and the crux of the matter is this:
How do I recognise a good car, and avoid a potential problem one?
Looking at the cars advertised, "good" factors mentioned appear to be:
Low mileage, Never been tracked, Perfect condition, etc...
BUT, a car which has not been tracked may have been driven hard from cold, may have been thrashed and then the engine turned off (without letting the turbos spool down and engine cool down)
Similarly, a car with low mileage may have been driven in a similar manner on many short trips.
Also cars without stone chips may have been resprayed etc..
Conversely, a car which has been tracked is likely to have been driven hard, but may have been looked after properly, with more regular oil changes, and warmed up/cooled down properly.
In short, I realise a car which has been tracked may be better than one which has not (but then again it may be worse)
So please, what advice do you have on what to look for, and are there any ways to spot the better car?
Or am I simply never going to be really able to tell?
Also, for anyone who has already been through this process, how did you approach it, and what factors made you decide on one particular example above another?
Many many thanks for your input,
Conrad.
Use the services of someone like Matt FP or one of the service centres.
He'll inspect the car before you buy it and give you a frank appraisal of the car.
Secondly, make sure you spend about an hour talking to the owner. If, like me, they use the car hard, but have good mechanical sympathy in terms of warm up/cool down, then you'll soon find out. Questions such as "where do you drive each morning" will generally tell a good tail.
If you aren't confident of telling a good car, then get a pro to do it (and Matt is one of the best IMHO)
J
He'll inspect the car before you buy it and give you a frank appraisal of the car.
Secondly, make sure you spend about an hour talking to the owner. If, like me, they use the car hard, but have good mechanical sympathy in terms of warm up/cool down, then you'll soon find out. Questions such as "where do you drive each morning" will generally tell a good tail.
If you aren't confident of telling a good car, then get a pro to do it (and Matt is one of the best IMHO)
J
When I bought mine, I personally tried to avoid a tracked car because the advice I was given was that track miles were generally the equivalent of x times road miles etc.Of course that doesn't mean that the theory is correct, but it made a bit of sense to me, being essentially a road car. However, a tracked car may have been looked after better or thrashed to buggery BUT so of course could a road car. Ask a few dealers what they think, look at a few and go with your gut feeling.
Thanks very much for your thoughts.
I think I'll be in touch with Matt - seems obvious really, but I hadn't realised they offer an inspection service. I'll certainly feel alot happier having a potential purchase inspected by an expert.
As for tracked or not, I have a feeling that not tracked may be preferable, but as advised, speaking to the owner, and having it checked out, should hopefully dispel any doubts.
Thanks again.
I think I'll be in touch with Matt - seems obvious really, but I hadn't realised they offer an inspection service. I'll certainly feel alot happier having a potential purchase inspected by an expert.
As for tracked or not, I have a feeling that not tracked may be preferable, but as advised, speaking to the owner, and having it checked out, should hopefully dispel any doubts.
Thanks again.
Has it been tracked or not? Well ...
Look at the tyres for any signs of extra rubber "splodges" that you'll only accumulate on track (mainly from other cars running on slicks).
If it's an M400 (go on, you know you want one
) then look for extra wear on the outside edge of the tyres as the camber is not set up for dedicated track work.
Also look at the inside of the rear RHS section of the rear clam for splash marks from fluid from the power steering resevoir; this happens because the car has been pulling some decent "g".
Finally look for the broken exhuast bracket ... lots of welding repairs there probably correlates with a few track days.
IMO there's nothing wrong with a tracked car if it's been properly maintained, with oil and filter changes every 2 to 3 trackdays; in fact probably many of the niggling faults will already have been fixed by the enthusiastic owner. Look for suitable evience of servicing history.
Hope that helps.
--
Richard
Look at the tyres for any signs of extra rubber "splodges" that you'll only accumulate on track (mainly from other cars running on slicks).
If it's an M400 (go on, you know you want one
) then look for extra wear on the outside edge of the tyres as the camber is not set up for dedicated track work. Also look at the inside of the rear RHS section of the rear clam for splash marks from fluid from the power steering resevoir; this happens because the car has been pulling some decent "g".
Finally look for the broken exhuast bracket ... lots of welding repairs there probably correlates with a few track days.
IMO there's nothing wrong with a tracked car if it's been properly maintained, with oil and filter changes every 2 to 3 trackdays; in fact probably many of the niggling faults will already have been fixed by the enthusiastic owner. Look for suitable evience of servicing history.
Hope that helps.
--
Richard
I have just bought Noble 2002 vintage - it's done 12,500 miles and had 4 track days - i spent ages talking to Noble factory, the owner, looked at several cars etc etc. I think Noble is designed for track so i consider some track day use is good - sorted out any problems before i get them. If the car has been tracked then be sure previous owner looked after it - mechanically and has the proof.
CC, do you intend on tracking it yourself?
If so, (which is a must) I can't really see the worry about whether the last owner did or not. Nice to know I guess (and I did want a non-tracked one myself when I was looking) but at the end of the day, the major components are more than capable of being used to their full as long as they are looked after.
I don't know any of us here who track our cars and don't look after them better than is necessary! IMO a nice kind and well off owner who tracks thair car will/should look after it better than a non-tracking owner.
I get my cars oil changed after 2-3 days and have it serviced every 10 months instead of 12. I have only done 3 and a half TD's and have found and fixed many niggles that would have been tricky to find through pottering round the roads.
Its horses for courses really, you could get a lomon thats been tracked or not.
I would say that if you're worried, buy an aftermarket warranty from a company like warranty works for the first year and than at least your covered for any big stuff that goes wrong. Within 3-6 months you will have found anything thats not right and can have it sorted accordingly.
Hope your search is quick and easy!
Greg
If so, (which is a must) I can't really see the worry about whether the last owner did or not. Nice to know I guess (and I did want a non-tracked one myself when I was looking) but at the end of the day, the major components are more than capable of being used to their full as long as they are looked after.
I don't know any of us here who track our cars and don't look after them better than is necessary! IMO a nice kind and well off owner who tracks thair car will/should look after it better than a non-tracking owner.
I get my cars oil changed after 2-3 days and have it serviced every 10 months instead of 12. I have only done 3 and a half TD's and have found and fixed many niggles that would have been tricky to find through pottering round the roads.
Its horses for courses really, you could get a lomon thats been tracked or not.
I would say that if you're worried, buy an aftermarket warranty from a company like warranty works for the first year and than at least your covered for any big stuff that goes wrong. Within 3-6 months you will have found anything thats not right and can have it sorted accordingly.
Hope your search is quick and easy!
Greg
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