Discussion
Had a mate call me ref buying one of these. He doesnt want the 4 or 5 door cars. I know about the type R 2 door grey import and the UK P1 but where does the 22B fit in to the equasion- I know its a 2.2 engine & only 16 or so were UK cars, but how many gray imports roughly? and what sort of prices are they in relation to the R and the P1 ?
Yes but I think it comes with some serious running costs, when a friend had his STi5 Type R 3dr enginer rebuild (at 30k miles!!) there were two 22Bs at the same garage having *very* expencive rebuilds!!
Bottom line, dont think there everyday use cars
But I am no expert. Do your homework before buying such a car.
>> Edited by markda on Tuesday 10th December 16:01
Bottom line, dont think there everyday use cars
But I am no expert. Do your homework before buying such a car. >> Edited by markda on Tuesday 10th December 16:01
22B is certainly the Daddy in terms of cost - there were only 16 official UK 22Bs (non UK ones had very short gearing) - new in 1999 they were £40K.
They were all registered through SVA, as they didn't meet EU noise and emission laws.
They also have the same seam-welded, flared arched body as the WRC rally car of the time.
Apart from that, for road driving I believe the P1 is a better (and faster) car - they both have the same power output, the P1 has a more recent Prodrive suspension.
So 22B has rarity value & better looks (If you like the rally car look), but P1 goes better.
All IMHO of course (yes I've been in both, but bought a P1....)
Check out here for details on all the different models.
They were all registered through SVA, as they didn't meet EU noise and emission laws.
They also have the same seam-welded, flared arched body as the WRC rally car of the time.
Apart from that, for road driving I believe the P1 is a better (and faster) car - they both have the same power output, the P1 has a more recent Prodrive suspension.
So 22B has rarity value & better looks (If you like the rally car look), but P1 goes better.
All IMHO of course (yes I've been in both, but bought a P1....)
Check out here for details on all the different models.
Limited edition run. Think they were all in blue.
The Daddy.
£40k plus.
Various lightweight bits.
Lots more power than quoted figures (quoted 280bhp more like 360 (quoted in one of the magazines a few years ago). Very Tweekable.
Definitely faster than a P1.
Don't know anything about the running costs.
DAZ
PS - Iguana have you considered trying to get details from those awfully sensible people over on scoobynet?
EDITED TO SAY: Craig, great website link, I didn't know it was so complicated, with so many versions. Iguana clearly your mate needs to know wether he's looking at a UK version with the longer gearing or the import version.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 10th December 16:21
The Daddy.
£40k plus.
Various lightweight bits.
Lots more power than quoted figures (quoted 280bhp more like 360 (quoted in one of the magazines a few years ago). Very Tweekable.
Definitely faster than a P1.
Don't know anything about the running costs.
DAZ
PS - Iguana have you considered trying to get details from those awfully sensible people over on scoobynet?
EDITED TO SAY: Craig, great website link, I didn't know it was so complicated, with so many versions. Iguana clearly your mate needs to know wether he's looking at a UK version with the longer gearing or the import version.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 10th December 16:21
Um, actually no, I disagree here
dazren said:
Lots more power than quoted figures (quoted 280bhp more like 360). Very Tweekable.
Definitely faster than a P1.
Power Engineering tried to tune a 22B & found it was far less tweakable than a standard STI. In standard tune they are tuned pretty optimally....
Some examples of P1s put on rolling road are chucking out 320BHP as standard - the 22Bs are less than this. As I say, I've been in both, and I reckon the P1 is better set up as standard.
A non UK 22B will accelerate quicker due to the shorter gearbox, but you can get a short gearbox on an imported STI if that's what you want (top speed about 116MPH I think).
Craig.
I was putting down an opinion based on what I remember reading in a magazine when the 22B first came out (similar time as the EVO6 Extreme?). At the time the P1 wasn't on the market and the reporter wrote that the vehicle was puting out a lot more than the quoted figure of 280bhp, nearer 360bhp. He then went onto mention what some of the Japanese "officianados" (substitute "street racing lunatics") were doing to the car with some crazy power outputs (hence my comment tweekable).
Having explained where my posting came from I am happy to concede your point on the basis of your more in depth research leading to you actually buying one of these beasts.
DAZ
I was putting down an opinion based on what I remember reading in a magazine when the 22B first came out (similar time as the EVO6 Extreme?). At the time the P1 wasn't on the market and the reporter wrote that the vehicle was puting out a lot more than the quoted figure of 280bhp, nearer 360bhp. He then went onto mention what some of the Japanese "officianados" (substitute "street racing lunatics"
) were doing to the car with some crazy power outputs (hence my comment tweekable). Having explained where my posting came from I am happy to concede your point on the basis of your more in depth research leading to you actually buying one of these beasts.
DAZ
I heard a bit of an urban myth a while ago and wondered if anyone here can blow it out of the water for me.
What this concerned was that all Imprezas/Evo's regardless of state of tune leave the factory with a stated 295bhp (or some other random figure) because no cars in Japan are allowed to be produced at more than this quoted BHP figure.
Sounds like a right load of cods to me, but I thought I would ask the experts!
Matt.
What this concerned was that all Imprezas/Evo's regardless of state of tune leave the factory with a stated 295bhp (or some other random figure) because no cars in Japan are allowed to be produced at more than this quoted BHP figure.
Sounds like a right load of cods to me, but I thought I would ask the experts!
Matt.
Definitely faster than a P1.
Errr, in what context, road or track?
0-60 there's absolutely nothing in it.
The 22B has a wider track and flared arches. 400 were produced (although unofficially this was about 425) and 16 were officially imported into the UK.
Evo did an article comparing them and ruled that the 22B is certainly the quicker on a smooth surface such as a track but on UK roads the 22B is too rear biased and the suspension is more Japanese thus getting upset too easily.
There is "star" factor however, in that a 22B is a rare beast and will always attract attention from those in the know.
I'm not aware as to how many standard parts have used and therefore are readily available if things go wrong. In truth though, most Imprezas are bombproof until you start asking them for silly BHP.
Edited to add spelling errors
>> Edited by smifffy on Tuesday 10th December 16:42
plotloss said: I heard a bit of an urban myth a while ago and wondered if anyone here can blow it out of the water for me.
What this concerned was that all Imprezas/Evo's regardless of state of tune leave the factory with a stated 295bhp (or some other random figure) because no cars in Japan are allowed to be produced at more than this quoted BHP figure.
Sounds like a right load of cods to me, but I thought I would ask the experts!
Matt.
Yep, dis is true.
Japan has a global agreement within its car makers that no cars leave with more than 280 BHP (there's a metric measurement there somewhere).
This is true for Evos, Skylines, Scoobies etc.
In truth with most you can replace the filters, exhaust and you have instant gains, although the scooby engine is one of the most un-tweakable and a reliable 350 BHP + is very difficult to achieve.
The Evo engine is slightly better and the Skyline engine is legendary.
Craig, I agree with your thoughts on the 2.2 engine in the 22B, I remember reading something somewhere about it explaining exactly why it didn't respond to tuning. It could have been to do with the stroke and the way it interacts with the turbo - can't quite remember, will see if I can fish it out.
Daz, strange but true! But as I said earlier, the 22B is rarer, although the P1 isn't exactly common! (But I would say that - see profile)
Yup, it cost a mate of mine about £7K to get his WRX STiIV to 350BHP (what a car though
smifffy said:
In truth with most you can replace the filters, exhaust and you have instant gains, although the scooby engine is one of the most un-tweakable and a reliable 350 BHP + is very difficult to achieve.
) After a phase 1 Power Enginering conversion, here is the dyno figures for a UK 22B (gets 309BHP)
Yeah I kinda remember the same thing too....
The Evo engine is slightly better and the Skyline engine is legendary.
Craig, I agree with your thoughts on the 2.2 engine in the 22B, I remember reading something somewhere about it explaining exactly why it didn't respond to tuning. It could have been to do with the stroke and the way it interacts with the turbo
To you Dazren Craig & Smifffy.
Are both your cars P1s then? the last of the proper shape (ducks for cover). Got to admit if I had one I'd get the rear windows tinted like the rally cars.
Any chance of exchanging passenger rides at a PH event? I've never been in a scooby.
DAZ
PS - Craig, cracking plate you've got there.
Are both your cars P1s then? the last of the proper shape (ducks for cover). Got to admit if I had one I'd get the rear windows tinted like the rally cars.
Any chance of exchanging passenger rides at a PH event? I've never been in a scooby.
DAZ
PS - Craig, cracking plate you've got there.
Yup, that's us!
dazren said: Craig & Smifffy.
Are both your cars P1s then?
Also true
the last of the proper shape (ducks for cover).
- I waited till the new shape came out & then thought nope, & got a P1 that someone had cancelled their order on. Never really thought of it - I am in Scotland, so don't want to cut out any natural light
Got to admit if I had one I'd get the rear windows tinted like the rally cars.
Also tend to do any tweaking/mods to my Chimaera - the P1 is my sensible car
Sure - think Smiffy might be closer to you though, think he's in Hove (actually)
Any chance of exchanging passenger rides at a PH event? I've never been in a scooby.
Hey thanks - that's not really my plate though
PS - Craig, cracking plate you've got there.
- pic was taken in the pits at Knockhill 
I am lucky enough to have a 22B as my everyday car! I have saved up and worked my way through Scoobs to get to this point and am very proud of the car.
As you have all said it may not be the easiest of Scoobs to live with but it is the rarest and IMHO the most eye catching.
Regarding power of Japanese cars I believe the "gentlemans agreement" for power is 280ps or (276 bhp to us in the uk!)
Fuel economy on the 22B was about 22-26 mpg depending on how I drove it but now I have had a new ecu and fitted an uprated fuel pump (just in case of fuel starvation) and its now down to 16-18 mpg.
Prior to the ecu remap I was getting 311 bhp with the diff fully locked and 307 (I think) with it fully open.
It is the most demanding of all the Scoobs I have owned to drive and deserves a lot of respect in all but the best weather. The dry grip is phenomenal and that coupled with the quick steering make it a joy. I have fitted AP racing 6-pots to it as the std brakes were.....crap!
I would be interested to compare it to a P1 but have not yet. The ride is very hard but I was used to that as had an EVO before!
To me it is the ultimate Subaru enthusiasts car and that is why I have mine. Not cos it costs a lot of money, but because it is a rare and beautiful craft.
Links to look at:
[url]www.22b.com[/url]
Hope I've not bored you too much with this. Just an owners view point. I don't get on here much so if you have any questions feel free to email me.
Tim
As you have all said it may not be the easiest of Scoobs to live with but it is the rarest and IMHO the most eye catching.
Regarding power of Japanese cars I believe the "gentlemans agreement" for power is 280ps or (276 bhp to us in the uk!)
Fuel economy on the 22B was about 22-26 mpg depending on how I drove it but now I have had a new ecu and fitted an uprated fuel pump (just in case of fuel starvation) and its now down to 16-18 mpg.
Prior to the ecu remap I was getting 311 bhp with the diff fully locked and 307 (I think) with it fully open.
It is the most demanding of all the Scoobs I have owned to drive and deserves a lot of respect in all but the best weather. The dry grip is phenomenal and that coupled with the quick steering make it a joy. I have fitted AP racing 6-pots to it as the std brakes were.....crap!
I would be interested to compare it to a P1 but have not yet. The ride is very hard but I was used to that as had an EVO before!
To me it is the ultimate Subaru enthusiasts car and that is why I have mine. Not cos it costs a lot of money, but because it is a rare and beautiful craft.
Links to look at:
[url]www.22b.com[/url]
Hope I've not bored you too much with this. Just an owners view point. I don't get on here much so if you have any questions feel free to email me.
Tim
I first saw the 22B when it was lanched and loved its shape and colour.
Sadly 40 big ones was a bit steep and eventually I went for what is no "also ran" - the P1.
As said before these 2 cars are very close in performance - the P1 is better on the road (no wet weather problems, it just ovesteers a bit if provoked) and the 22B is faster on the track.
All in all anyone with either of these babies is very lucky!!!
Sadly 40 big ones was a bit steep and eventually I went for what is no "also ran" - the P1.
As said before these 2 cars are very close in performance - the P1 is better on the road (no wet weather problems, it just ovesteers a bit if provoked) and the 22B is faster on the track.
All in all anyone with either of these babies is very lucky!!!
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