Violence Part 2
Discussion
I am (...surprising myself because I always thought Britain was a relatively safe country...) now starting to think since the New Year what the hell is happening to the law and order in this country, 35 stabbings on New Years Eve in London alone, on New Years Eve for god sake! I just read UK Bob's post about 'Violence' and it makes me sick. Thugs!
Like UK Bob, I keep myself out of trouble. I don't do clubs and late night city centres in the main anymore, I'm 35 years old, just sociable drinks in my local pub with friends. I've so far managed to keep myself out of trouble through my nature (ie I tend to be friendly rather than aggressive after a few too many drinks), but having read so much recently, and the solicitor getting murdered in London for nothing more than wearing nice clothes after having handed over all his valuables, what the hell is happening? Knives have been discussed elsewhere, but my reason for posting.....
This is a longish story,
Last year I woke up on a quiet Sat morning in the leafy suburbs of Surrey, and opened the blind in my living room. I looked out and saw two guys at 8am on a Sat morning clearly facing up to each other, one was approx 20 years old the other approx 50 years old. Never get this sort of thing in my neighbourhood I thought? They were in the car park at the rear of my house. Before I knew it they started laying into each other, after 20 secs it was getting sufficiently violent that I called the police on my mobile because these things just don't happen in my realtively quiet town.
I continued observing, the 50 year old guy quickly gave up and went to the ground. All the aggression was coming from the 20 year old I now realised, the 50 year old guy was just self defending in the initial bout. But then the most sickening thing happened - the 50 year old guy was bleeding and sitting on the ground defenceless, the 20 year old guy just needed more violence, so came up and kicked this old guy in the head, as in kicking a penalty kick, twice in the head. I thought I was witnessing a murder. Somehow the old guy got up after this and retreated 20 metres, blood was pouring down his face. Then the young guy ran away after screaming expletives at his victim.
It was all going too fast for me, but I ran to the front of my house, and observed the young cun*...attacker letting himself into a block of flats exactly opposite to me. Because of the door he went in, I knew he now had to be in one of three flats in that block. He probably thought he was safe now because he dissapeared so quickly, but I so knew different. I knew exactly where you were you little cun*! And I'll tell you, I watched the entrance to those flats like a hawk until the police arrived 5 mins later.
The police called me back on my mobile, and asked for a description of the young guy, and what property did I observe him going into. He was wearing a very distinctive jacket, and distinctive trainers. They surrounded the block of flats I had told them he went into, and after 15 mins of knocking doors on a Sat morning, they eventually brought the guy out handcuffed, and then another police officer brought out his distinctive jacket soon after. Excellent, banged up for sure!
Police called me to make a witness statement at the station the next week. I'm not a great fan of plod when it comes to motoring offences, but I had great respect for them in this instance. Sat down with an officer in the interview room. I asked "do you mind me asking what the hell happened that morning?" I didn't expect him to tell me, but he did. The 50 year old guy had dropped his wife off in the High Street as normal to do their weekend shopping, as normal he said to her I'll go round and park the car in the car park, and meet you in Sainsburys in 5 mins. He parked his car, went to the pay machine, and as he was putting in his money this 20 year old crackhead comes up to him and says "what the
do you think you're doing?" The 50 year old guy didn't understand, and that moment onwards was what I witnessed ie they 20 year old guy laid into him for no reason.
The worst thing for me was that the policeman then told me the 50 year old guy was currently in hospital, and he required significant plastic surgery to repair the damage done to his face from the kicking he received. But the worst thing by far was that his 5 year old son just couldn't understand why this had happened to his Daddy??? And was crying uncontrollably???? At that point I thought hang theer!
When the police interviewed the young guy, he confessed that he had been drinking all night before, had taken cocaine / speed / whatever these imbeciles do. And that he hadn't slept for 48 hours, and was completely out of it, he just walked out the door of his flat looking for a fight with the first person he came across. Then the policeman told me that his solicitor arrived, and told him to answer "no comment" to every other question. Which he did
A reasonable case against this scrote? I thought so. I wrote down every detail of the incident because I thought it might take a few months to get to court, and I wanted to write down whilst fresh every detail of that morning. I so wanted this scrote banged up for life.
And what happened with a 'strong' first hand witness case like that, where they'd got the scrote bang to rights within 10 mins of the attempted murder, with plenty of first hand evidence from me and the victim?
Nothing, not a single thing. The scrote never even got brought before court. Well done CPS! Someone in their wisdom decided the case wasn't strong enough. He got off scott free. He walked away laughing from the police station after his initial arrest, getting ready to do the very same at the first opportunity. But I guess with his experience, he's now learnt fists and feet take too long, he'll take a knife next time.
I'll be voting Law & Order next time round, I always have! Tony, You're time has passed.
Like UK Bob, I keep myself out of trouble. I don't do clubs and late night city centres in the main anymore, I'm 35 years old, just sociable drinks in my local pub with friends. I've so far managed to keep myself out of trouble through my nature (ie I tend to be friendly rather than aggressive after a few too many drinks), but having read so much recently, and the solicitor getting murdered in London for nothing more than wearing nice clothes after having handed over all his valuables, what the hell is happening? Knives have been discussed elsewhere, but my reason for posting.....
This is a longish story,
Last year I woke up on a quiet Sat morning in the leafy suburbs of Surrey, and opened the blind in my living room. I looked out and saw two guys at 8am on a Sat morning clearly facing up to each other, one was approx 20 years old the other approx 50 years old. Never get this sort of thing in my neighbourhood I thought? They were in the car park at the rear of my house. Before I knew it they started laying into each other, after 20 secs it was getting sufficiently violent that I called the police on my mobile because these things just don't happen in my realtively quiet town.
I continued observing, the 50 year old guy quickly gave up and went to the ground. All the aggression was coming from the 20 year old I now realised, the 50 year old guy was just self defending in the initial bout. But then the most sickening thing happened - the 50 year old guy was bleeding and sitting on the ground defenceless, the 20 year old guy just needed more violence, so came up and kicked this old guy in the head, as in kicking a penalty kick, twice in the head. I thought I was witnessing a murder. Somehow the old guy got up after this and retreated 20 metres, blood was pouring down his face. Then the young guy ran away after screaming expletives at his victim.
It was all going too fast for me, but I ran to the front of my house, and observed the young cun*...attacker letting himself into a block of flats exactly opposite to me. Because of the door he went in, I knew he now had to be in one of three flats in that block. He probably thought he was safe now because he dissapeared so quickly, but I so knew different. I knew exactly where you were you little cun*! And I'll tell you, I watched the entrance to those flats like a hawk until the police arrived 5 mins later.
The police called me back on my mobile, and asked for a description of the young guy, and what property did I observe him going into. He was wearing a very distinctive jacket, and distinctive trainers. They surrounded the block of flats I had told them he went into, and after 15 mins of knocking doors on a Sat morning, they eventually brought the guy out handcuffed, and then another police officer brought out his distinctive jacket soon after. Excellent, banged up for sure!
Police called me to make a witness statement at the station the next week. I'm not a great fan of plod when it comes to motoring offences, but I had great respect for them in this instance. Sat down with an officer in the interview room. I asked "do you mind me asking what the hell happened that morning?" I didn't expect him to tell me, but he did. The 50 year old guy had dropped his wife off in the High Street as normal to do their weekend shopping, as normal he said to her I'll go round and park the car in the car park, and meet you in Sainsburys in 5 mins. He parked his car, went to the pay machine, and as he was putting in his money this 20 year old crackhead comes up to him and says "what the
do you think you're doing?" The 50 year old guy didn't understand, and that moment onwards was what I witnessed ie they 20 year old guy laid into him for no reason. The worst thing for me was that the policeman then told me the 50 year old guy was currently in hospital, and he required significant plastic surgery to repair the damage done to his face from the kicking he received. But the worst thing by far was that his 5 year old son just couldn't understand why this had happened to his Daddy??? And was crying uncontrollably???? At that point I thought hang the
er! When the police interviewed the young guy, he confessed that he had been drinking all night before, had taken cocaine / speed / whatever these imbeciles do. And that he hadn't slept for 48 hours, and was completely out of it, he just walked out the door of his flat looking for a fight with the first person he came across. Then the policeman told me that his solicitor arrived, and told him to answer "no comment" to every other question. Which he did
A reasonable case against this scrote? I thought so. I wrote down every detail of the incident because I thought it might take a few months to get to court, and I wanted to write down whilst fresh every detail of that morning. I so wanted this scrote banged up for life.
And what happened with a 'strong' first hand witness case like that, where they'd got the scrote bang to rights within 10 mins of the attempted murder, with plenty of first hand evidence from me and the victim?
Nothing, not a single thing. The scrote never even got brought before court. Well done CPS! Someone in their wisdom decided the case wasn't strong enough. He got off scott free. He walked away laughing from the police station after his initial arrest, getting ready to do the very same at the first opportunity. But I guess with his experience, he's now learnt fists and feet take too long, he'll take a knife next time.
I'll be voting Law & Order next time round, I always have! Tony, You're time has passed.
which illustrates what is wrong with the criminal justice system in this country. Very disturbing read. Fair play to you for doing your civic duty, but are you not worried now that the "next guy" could be ... you? Did crackhead know you'd fingered him?
To have someone like that walk when he was, from your account, sewn uplike a kipper, says a lot about the state of law and order these days. Crims laugh at the law, shored up by the likes of Cherie making a pile out of Legal Aid, while generally decent citizens get shafted at every turn, and can't afford to defend themselves, in any sense of the phrase. I wonder if an id card would have altered crackheads behaviour? I think not.
The 5 year old in tears sent chills down my spine. I have a five year old boy, and the thought of him witnessing me being beaten like that makes me sick. So many victims.
I wonder if anyone would miss crackhead if he just dissappeared?
To have someone like that walk when he was, from your account, sewn uplike a kipper, says a lot about the state of law and order these days. Crims laugh at the law, shored up by the likes of Cherie making a pile out of Legal Aid, while generally decent citizens get shafted at every turn, and can't afford to defend themselves, in any sense of the phrase. I wonder if an id card would have altered crackheads behaviour? I think not.
The 5 year old in tears sent chills down my spine. I have a five year old boy, and the thought of him witnessing me being beaten like that makes me sick. So many victims.
I wonder if anyone would miss crackhead if he just dissappeared?
victormeldrew said:
Very disturbing read. Fair play to you for doing your civic duty, but are you not worried now that the "next guy" could be ... you? Did crackhead know you'd fingered him?
To have someone like that walk when he was, from your account, sewn uplike a kipper, says a lot about the state of law and order these days. Crims laugh at the law, shored up by the likes of Cherie making a pile out of Legal Aid, while generally decent citizens get shafted at every turn, and can't afford to defend themselves, in any sense of the phrase. I wonder if an id card would have altered crackheads behaviour? I think not.
The 5 year old in tears sent chills down my spine. I have a five year old boy, and the thought of him witnessing me being beaten like that makes me sick. So many victims.
I wonder if anyone would miss crackhead if he just dissappeared?
Correct on all points. Why does this crap happen so much lately(here too)as oppossed to the last few lifetimes? Is it due to drugs, too much nannying by society, or simply not forcing consequences for actions. I know that in past decades, this punk would have been "properly schooled", both here and there.
victormeldrew said:
I wonder if anyone would miss crackhead if he just dissappeared?
well i guess you could play the system i.e. get pissed the night before, do some drugs, be generally abusive to the public... and then take a baseball bat to the scrote. oh and answer 'no comment' to everything the police ask you. btw just being cynical. btw, which erm, bit of Surrey was this - Guildford, Sutton, Epsom? surprised he didn't get charged with anything - pretty amazing tbh.
>> Edited by fido on Friday 20th January 23:22
The problem with law and order at the moment is that the authorities don't want you to take the law into your own hands but refuse to take the law into their hands either. Therefore you have a situation where the only winners are the lowest scum of society. The very ones who don't deserve to live with the rest of us are being nurtured. If you had run out with a 3 iron and given the little crack head and smack you would now be doing time for GBH without a doubt. Its wrong, and while the hand wringers have the ears of the ineffectual power-hungry cretins we call a government the situation won't change!
Crime and punishment obviously needs to be managed as part of a complete social masterplan and can't be significantly tackled in isolation, but...
Let's make the punishment for crimes very unattractive! If you've stolen cars once - very strong warning about what's going to happen next time. Twice - some serious 'hard time' and manual labour that actually does involve repaying their debt to society. Three times - you're clearly not going to learn... off with a hand! How many hands lopped off before car theft drops significantly?
Forget this four square meals, PlayStation and free gym membership. A 4'x4' box with no windows! Controversial, I'm sure.
Gruffy
Let's make the punishment for crimes very unattractive! If you've stolen cars once - very strong warning about what's going to happen next time. Twice - some serious 'hard time' and manual labour that actually does involve repaying their debt to society. Three times - you're clearly not going to learn... off with a hand! How many hands lopped off before car theft drops significantly?
Forget this four square meals, PlayStation and free gym membership. A 4'x4' box with no windows! Controversial, I'm sure.
Gruffy
Yep we need the 2% of society who cause 98% of the harm to start thinking "shit they're not joking are they?" My dad spent a lot of time in Aden in the 50s, the local punishment for theft was to lose a finger. You saw a lot with 1 missing, quite a lot with 2, but not many with 3........
[Drunken ramblings below - you have been warned 
]
There's serious trouble brewing in this country and it's going to be messy and unpleasant when it finally blows.
The whole reason for the existence of the police and the justice system is to look after the interests of what the majority of society considers acceptable. This is no longer happening. The police have become a tool for enforcing political ideologies and the justice system an excuse for letting people of for unacceptable behaviour for, once again, politically advantagous reasons.
The idiots in power in Westminster have not forgotten who put them there and why, and are now simply contemptuous of those they are meant to be serving.
The balance in society has always shown itself to be self-correcting once it goes too far off kilter and that time is coming soon. If the police and courts no longer represent justice in the eyes of the average man on the street then justice will be sought through other means...
] There's serious trouble brewing in this country and it's going to be messy and unpleasant when it finally blows.
The whole reason for the existence of the police and the justice system is to look after the interests of what the majority of society considers acceptable. This is no longer happening. The police have become a tool for enforcing political ideologies and the justice system an excuse for letting people of for unacceptable behaviour for, once again, politically advantagous reasons.
The idiots in power in Westminster have not forgotten who put them there and why, and are now simply contemptuous of those they are meant to be serving.
The balance in society has always shown itself to be self-correcting once it goes too far off kilter and that time is coming soon. If the police and courts no longer represent justice in the eyes of the average man on the street then justice will be sought through other means...
victormeldrew said:
Very disturbing read. Fair play to you for doing your civic duty, but are you not worried now that the "next guy" could be ... you? Did crackhead know you'd fingered him?
In all honesty I was very worried about that. Although I'm fairly sure he didn't know I fingered him.
I told my immediate family about what had happened that morning, they were disgusted, but seeing as the guy lived across the road from me and was on drugs, they advised do not get involved! Keep out of it! It's not your problem!
After some reflection, I thought about the risks, but I thought more and more about this 50 year old guy going about his day to day business, and I had this vision about his poor 5 year old son. I ended up being 100% ready to go to court to put the scrote away.
Not having ended up in court makes my life easier right now, but I place myself in the victims shoes, I would have so wanted justice!
There so needs to be a serious crackdown on this type of activity. Violence, knives especially, are running out of control in cities. Forget probation or community service, anyone with a knive on them (without good cause) needs banging up for 15 years. No, let's reintroduce the birch, then give them 15 years.
In Arizona's Maricopa County, the Sheriff has a popular approach to prison....make it a place one does not want to be at! The sheriff dresses inmates in pink. They live in tents with fans. No air con, no TV, no movies, no coffee, etc. They work all day cleaning the streets etc., saving the taxpayer loads of money. They eat coldcut sandwiches. The ACLU (liberal to the extreme) sues the sheriff for for each of the three meals he serves everyday, saying there should be hot food. In answer to this, the man microwaved the sandwiches before serving
. This is not a pleasant place and the PC crowd is beside itself. However, those that are sent there are the "hardened" lot, not the "possible to reform" sort. The public fully supports the sheriff and, as he says, "the public is my boss". Rates of recurring crime are down in that county since this approach took shape. PC or not, facts and results are just that!
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Saturday 21st January 00:22
. This is not a pleasant place and the PC crowd is beside itself. However, those that are sent there are the "hardened" lot, not the "possible to reform" sort. The public fully supports the sheriff and, as he says, "the public is my boss". Rates of recurring crime are down in that county since this approach took shape. PC or not, facts and results are just that! >> Edited by jimbeaux on Saturday 21st January 00:22
all those that are spouting law and order crap are those that belive the spin and what the powers at be what you too think. socity has the socity it created keep the rich at the top and the workers controled at the botom and downstroden and you create what we have now.
look the usa as an example the govent here in the last few years is tryiny to model the uk on the us do that what do you get.
innercitys filed with an underclass that have nothing to lose and no way out othere than taking a gun to someones head or drug dealing and the only other way is to leav feet first in a box.
and then pepole wonder why
>> Edited by OUTLAW-1 on Saturday 21st January 02:03
look the usa as an example the govent here in the last few years is tryiny to model the uk on the us do that what do you get.
innercitys filed with an underclass that have nothing to lose and no way out othere than taking a gun to someones head or drug dealing and the only other way is to leav feet first in a box.
and then pepole wonder why
>> Edited by OUTLAW-1 on Saturday 21st January 02:03
OUTLAW-1 said:
all those that are spouting law and order crap are those that belive the spin and what the powers at be what you too think. socity has the socity it created keep the rich at the top and the workers controled at the botom and downstroden and you create what we have now.
look the usa as an example the govent here in the last few years is tryiny to model the uk on the us do that what do you get.
nercitys filed with an underclass that have nothing to lose and no way out othere than taking a gun to someones head or drug dealing and the only other way is to leav feet first in a box.
and then pepole wonder why
l]>> Edited by OUTLAW-1 on Saturday 21st January 02:03
Ummm...Huh??? Are you drunk, joking, or simply incapable of phrasing a proper sentence?
>> Edited by jimbeaux on Saturday 21st January 02:11
I think a more extreme picture gets painted than what is strictly true on here sometimes. I don't exactly live in a nice area of London, there was a shooting not far from where I live recently. Do I fear for my own safety at night? Nope.
FFS guys, if you're that scared take a couple of Kung Fu classes or something.
FFS guys, if you're that scared take a couple of Kung Fu classes or something.
_VTEC_ said:
FFS guys, if you're that scared take a couple of Kung Fu classes or something.
I dont think its about being just scared,i get the feeling that there are a lot of people out there getting a tad frustrated,what we are seeing lately is seriously bad crime on a daily bassis with nothing being done about it in the way of justice.
There is a sign of a complete lack of respect for life and Like most people on here ive just filled out a tax return and am about to send a cheque off to help pay for the upkeep of this country,including Law & Order with a fair justice system,in that respect i feel short changed.
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