Pathetic Motorways
Discussion
A really insightful website concerning pathetic motorways of the past, present, never happened and the like.
Amusing comments throughout the site
www.pathetic.org.uk/
Amusing comments throughout the site
www.pathetic.org.uk/
Wow, some interesting stuff.
Just think how nice the north would be with some decent cross-pennine routes, Manchester to Sheffield and the Bradford to M6 (NW) route!
Even the one down near Derby would open the south up pretty well too!
Makes you wonder what is stopping them today with our billions of pounds in taxes from motorists.
Consider that they could justify them in the 60's and 70's with much lower traffic volumes, yet today they are hesitant to expand further when volumes are much higher. Surely if they could be justified then, then there is twice as much reason to build them today?
Just shows how anti-road and car the current government policies are when you see the m-ways that never made it.
Also, just look how nice the 60's maps were. Todays road maps just seem like child maps in comparison to the old ones with the detail and clarity and sharp defined lines and boundaries etc. Just looking at them briefly they look lots better for navigating with imho.
Dave
Just think how nice the north would be with some decent cross-pennine routes, Manchester to Sheffield and the Bradford to M6 (NW) route!
Even the one down near Derby would open the south up pretty well too!
Makes you wonder what is stopping them today with our billions of pounds in taxes from motorists.
Consider that they could justify them in the 60's and 70's with much lower traffic volumes, yet today they are hesitant to expand further when volumes are much higher. Surely if they could be justified then, then there is twice as much reason to build them today?
Just shows how anti-road and car the current government policies are when you see the m-ways that never made it.
Also, just look how nice the 60's maps were. Todays road maps just seem like child maps in comparison to the old ones with the detail and clarity and sharp defined lines and boundaries etc. Just looking at them briefly they look lots better for navigating with imho.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Makes you wonder what is stopping them today with our billions of pounds in taxes from motorists.
Consider that they could justify them in the 60's and 70's with much lower traffic volumes, yet today they are hesitant to expand further when volumes are much higher. Dave
The money from the motorist is propping the country up.
The country's finances would be in an even worse state without this income.
Hey, Mr Whippy,
Here's an idea... why not just pave the whole f**king country!!
well, even if y'all did that, guess what?? in another 30 years (once a viable alternate fuel is cheaply and readilly available) there would still be traffic jams... ever heard the paradigm, "if you clear a space it will soon be full of s**t"?
Perhaps you might think about cycling from Manchester to Sheffield, it's only 40 freaking miles.
Having said that, I did like pathetic.org, seeing pictures of the 'secretive' A1058(M) brought back memories of driving around the North East back in the 80's. (that is, when I wasn't cycling). I look forward to doing it again perhaps soon, I'm sick of the freeways in the USA, they SUCK.
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:57
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:58
Here's an idea... why not just pave the whole f**king country!!
well, even if y'all did that, guess what?? in another 30 years (once a viable alternate fuel is cheaply and readilly available) there would still be traffic jams... ever heard the paradigm, "if you clear a space it will soon be full of s**t"?
Perhaps you might think about cycling from Manchester to Sheffield, it's only 40 freaking miles.
Having said that, I did like pathetic.org, seeing pictures of the 'secretive' A1058(M) brought back memories of driving around the North East back in the 80's. (that is, when I wasn't cycling). I look forward to doing it again perhaps soon, I'm sick of the freeways in the USA, they SUCK.
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:57
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:58
John_69 said:
Hey, Mr Whippy,
Here's an idea... why not just pave the whole f**king country!!
well, even if y'all did that, guess what?? in another 30 years (once a viable alternate fuel is cheaply and readilly available) there would still be traffic jams... ever heard the paradigm, "if you clear a space it will soon be full of s**t"?
Would you like to tell me who would be driving these imaginary cars then? The population is in relative stasis, so even in the worst case scenario vehicle volumes can't grow much... that is unless we pay people just to drive on the roads for no point. I for one don't really enjoy driving *that* much when it's busy anyway, so driving when it is, is necessity, not for fun... Where will these millions more drivers come from...?
Ever wondered why motorways fill up? Because they are efficient! They remove traffic from overly used busy routes that usually travel through towns and villages (think Burley and Otley (to a degree) before the by-pass, and then look at Ilkley and how the lack of the by-pass makes the town centre an awfull place)
Yes, build roads, and cars use them, but the cars don't just "appear" from thin air, they move from what was very likely un-suitable over-used roads, to more efficient friendly trunk routes. Ala, my simple examples above. I'm sure there are even more impressive examples where new roads are busy, but hundreds of small towns and villages are saved the massive amount of traffic they used to endure (and were not designed to handle unlike the new routes).
Take the A1M link road near Leeds. Outlon>Swillington>Garforth used to be CRAMMED every day at rush hour, terrible area.
A1M is now full of cars, but the Outlon>Garforth areas are now reasonably trafficed!
Journeys are now MUCH more efficient, quicker and more environmentally friendly. More people use these roads than clutter up high-streets and residential areas!
Again, if they could justify the roads in the 60's and 70's, why can't they today? What has changed except people with single minded NIMBY views like your being listened to, slowing the countries economic and idustrial growth to a crawl.
You are a nitwit of the highest order! Well done on proving to me why the country is going tits up... people like you have single minded opinions that neglect to think about the impact to others, not just yourself!
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 27th March 16:37
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 27th March 16:39
John_69 said:
Hey, Mr Whippy,
Here's an idea... why not just pave the whole f**king country!!
well, even if y'all did that, guess what?? in another 30 years (once a viable alternate fuel is cheaply and readilly available) there would still be traffic jams... ever heard the paradigm, "if you clear a space it will soon be full of s**t"?
Perhaps you might think about cycling from Manchester to Sheffield, it's only 40 freaking miles.
Having said that, I did like pathetic.org, seeing pictures of the 'secretive' A1058(M) brought back memories of driving around the North East back in the 80's. (that is, when I wasn't cycling). I look forward to doing it again perhaps soon, I'm sick of the freeways in the USA, they SUCK.
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:57
>> Edited by John_69 on Sunday 19th March 19:58
Not another Communist troll from some loony yoghurt weaving site again, surely?
You seriously suggest an 80 mile round trip over the Pennines and back on a bicycle as a viable daily commute?
I do agree with you on the US Freeways, though. Impossible for me to drive at V-MAX along them, burning up shedloads of lovely fossil fuel in the process.
Cars won't come from thin air, however, as motoring is actually becoming cheaper (in real terms) even the most convservative of estimates suggest a huge increase in the number of vehicles and miles driven in the next 20 years (more and more people can afford cars). That's fact and even the Tory government of the early 90's gave up on the old "predict and provide" routine - hence limited road building today.
It's pretty depressing stuff... and we certainly can't build our way out of it. If you commute long distances, in about ten years time expect to get nailed (by both congestion and taxes).
It's pretty depressing stuff... and we certainly can't build our way out of it. If you commute long distances, in about ten years time expect to get nailed (by both congestion and taxes).
Dan Friel said:
That's fact and even the Tory government of the early 90's
gave up on the old "predict and provide" routine - hence limited
road building today.
Nonsense, surely ?
There are no votes in road building, it takes a long time, the
benefits aren't immediately visible and it costs a lot of money.
Hence they don't bother. Leading to a third world nation on
the edge of Europe with chronic congestion that costs
far more in time than new roads would save.
Dan Friel said:
we certainly can't build our way out of it.
More nonsense. To even get the UK motorway network up to the
Euro *average* would take decades.
Never mind a good system like the German one. They have twice
the land area, and *wait* *for* *it* FOUR times as much
motorway as the UK has.
That's a proper road system, not the UK rubbish.
Afraid the "predict and provide" problem is no nonsense... the issue is something called "induced traffic". In summary, the more roads you build, the more traffic is generated (people more likely to travel etc). Not so much of a problem at the new roads you create, however, it's a real problem further along the route...
Germans have of course invested in a fantastic motorway system since the 1930's.. twice the land, four times as many km's of motorway, similar population to the UK - hence less congestion problems.. But it's not something that we can replicate here (how many villages would we flatten). The Germans are also the pioneers of the satelite taxation system (for HGVs at the moment), and we'll be following the same route.
Germans have of course invested in a fantastic motorway system since the 1930's.. twice the land, four times as many km's of motorway, similar population to the UK - hence less congestion problems.. But it's not something that we can replicate here (how many villages would we flatten). The Germans are also the pioneers of the satelite taxation system (for HGVs at the moment), and we'll be following the same route.
Dan Friel said:
In summary, the more roads you build, the more traffic is generated
(people more likely to travel etc).
I still think you are wrong. Traffic is a useful proxy for economic
development.
Less traffic means less economic development. I think is covered
in any GCSE Geography course.
Dan Friel said:
Germans have of course invested in a fantastic motorway system since
the 1930's.. twice the land, four times as many km's of motorway,
similar population to the UK - hence less congestion problems..
Agreed - less congestion means faster journeys which means the
cost of the motorway is recouped quicker.
Dan Friel said:
But it's not something that we can replicate here (how many
villages would we flatten).
I'm afraid that's just the Luddite answer.
Any new road inconveniences someone. On balance, putting new roads
in helps economic development. Failing to do so retards it.
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