comparison of paper on my epson R2400
Discussion
I tried Olmec optimum gloss, ilford smooth pearl, epson premium gloss.
I printed colour, B&W and toned pictures. I printed the images in two formats
1/ normal way. profile applied to image was the monitor calibration, then print preview paper profile chosen, black point clicks, relative colourmetric too, photoshop handles colour.
the Olmec gave a slight green colour cast on the colour print compared to the Epson and Ilford but correctable.
ilford was slightly darker than the glossy paper but colours still good. epson was great as usual. I tend to use the smooth pearl for most of my own pics but other people want the glossy effect.
for the black and white image the olmec was streets ahead of the epson which has a cast which I put down to the paper being not as white as the olmec. the ilford was great again. Olmec is the prefered option here.
for toned images like sepia the epson was better than the Olmec which was too white however the ilford gave the best results in terms of tone.
Ilford smooth gloss was like the epson PG paper. gave good results for colour but B&W had a cast which I put down to the paper colour not being pure while like the olmec.
2/ image taged with paper profile and colour space in print preview was RGB.
the colour images were basically the same as above with the epson and ilford better than the Olmec. the Olmec had a really bad green cast on teh toned image and I'd not recomend this method at all. it was however very very good at reproducing what you saw on the monitor.
B&W pics printed on Olmec using the image taged with the monitor profile and the paper profile in the print preview selection
toned pics printed on Ilford prefered but epson PG just as good for colour rendition. would use the same as above to print
colour either epson PG or Ilford mooth pearl depending on the effect using the image tagged with the paper profile and using RGB inthe colour space option in print preview.
I will Olmec optimum satin when they arrive also got some cheap 7day glossy paper too to compare.
>> Edited by poah on Saturday 14th January 18:29
I printed colour, B&W and toned pictures. I printed the images in two formats
1/ normal way. profile applied to image was the monitor calibration, then print preview paper profile chosen, black point clicks, relative colourmetric too, photoshop handles colour.
the Olmec gave a slight green colour cast on the colour print compared to the Epson and Ilford but correctable.
ilford was slightly darker than the glossy paper but colours still good. epson was great as usual. I tend to use the smooth pearl for most of my own pics but other people want the glossy effect.
for the black and white image the olmec was streets ahead of the epson which has a cast which I put down to the paper being not as white as the olmec. the ilford was great again. Olmec is the prefered option here.
for toned images like sepia the epson was better than the Olmec which was too white however the ilford gave the best results in terms of tone.
Ilford smooth gloss was like the epson PG paper. gave good results for colour but B&W had a cast which I put down to the paper colour not being pure while like the olmec.
2/ image taged with paper profile and colour space in print preview was RGB.
the colour images were basically the same as above with the epson and ilford better than the Olmec. the Olmec had a really bad green cast on teh toned image and I'd not recomend this method at all. it was however very very good at reproducing what you saw on the monitor.
B&W pics printed on Olmec using the image taged with the monitor profile and the paper profile in the print preview selection
toned pics printed on Ilford prefered but epson PG just as good for colour rendition. would use the same as above to print
colour either epson PG or Ilford mooth pearl depending on the effect using the image tagged with the paper profile and using RGB inthe colour space option in print preview.
I will Olmec optimum satin when they arrive also got some cheap 7day glossy paper too to compare.
>> Edited by poah on Saturday 14th January 18:29
poah said:
LongQ said:
poah,
Did you get anywhere with the cheap 7dayshop paper? Which number was it?
Did you get anywhere with the cheap 7dayshop paper? Which number was it?
its the same as epson semi-gloss as far as I can see.
Jessops own make 260gms satin and gloss is the same as olmec which is nice as olmec have ISS profiles
Do you mean the same paper as the Epson or the same profile will do the trick on your Epson printer?
I have a Canon printer and using one of the standard Canon gloss paper profiles seems to produce goodish results, considering the price of the 7Dayshop paper, but I would be interested to know if there were other profiles available, much like you have identified for the Jessops paper. Preferably without using enormous amounts of extremely longlife ink!
turn your brightness down 
it may also be the way you are printing.
I go, via photoshop CS2, print preview, choose let printer determain colours, choose the profile for the paper e.g epson premium glossy, perceptal with black point ticked then you click print. in the printer box I turn off ICM so the printer is not trying to colour manage also, click epson premium gloss, choose the resolution etc etc and then click print. the print preview is not what you'll get it shows the corrections the software is having to do to correct the colour. All the paper I use has ICC profiles for the printer so if I am using olmec premium gloss I pic that profile at the start.
it may also be the way you are printing.
I go, via photoshop CS2, print preview, choose let printer determain colours, choose the profile for the paper e.g epson premium glossy, perceptal with black point ticked then you click print. in the printer box I turn off ICM so the printer is not trying to colour manage also, click epson premium gloss, choose the resolution etc etc and then click print. the print preview is not what you'll get it shows the corrections the software is having to do to correct the colour. All the paper I use has ICC profiles for the printer so if I am using olmec premium gloss I pic that profile at the start.
I've tried the tft with the brightness all the way down, the images don't look right as they take on a greyish tone.
I have the profiles from epson for the 950 and the premium glossy paper.
Interesting how you say "let the printer determine colours", all the guides say to set that box to let photoshop determine colours
I have the profiles from epson for the 950 and the premium glossy paper.
Interesting how you say "let the printer determine colours", all the guides say to set that box to let photoshop determine colours
I decided to run some comparisons for different Canon papers and the 7Dayshop glossy using the various Canon Paper settings all using the Canon supplied Easy Photoprint software. That meant that the controls were all with the printer driver. There are few options and they were all left untouched other than for layout (2 images per A4 sheet) and paper selection.
The images I used were challenging at the dark end of luminance but have some light areas and highlights. No greens though so this is not a conclusive check of overall quality. The shots were taken in dark conditions and with high ISO and have been subjected to a fair amount of Neat Image work to smooth the colours. Lighting was an orange car park light. One shot was rebalanced to make a light grey look light grey. The second was left as is so the light grey looks like a pale yellow and maroon shifts to muddy brown (when the ink dries. Fresh out of the printer under room lights it was a nice maroon!)
I ran a Canon Matt Paper reference print out of interest and while it still looks good at a reasonable viewing distance the darkness of the images is not so good when viewed at a slight angle, blacks or not as intense as from the gloss papers which is to be expected. But beyond that the strong dark/medium colours print quite accurately as seen on screen but are somewhat 'blotchy' and some deep blue in a cloud area has very obvious banding, suggesting that the printer driver may not get too much attention from the programmers. On the other hand
to be fair about this I am printing a 1000x750 file at 190x142 mm.
Comparing the glossy papers you have to look closely to spot the differences. I doubt most people would pick up on them viewing an album or a wall hung image. In fact you need to jump back and forth between them several times to spot anything different at all.
In terms of smooth glossiness the Canon Photo Paper Pro offers the smoothest surface followed by Canon Photo Paper Glossy which is marginally smoother than the much cheaper 7Dayshop glossy paper. Think of the latter two as having a little more 'orange peel' in motor paint finish terms. But there really is not much in it between the Canon Papers if you see a reflection of an object off the surface. The same reflection from the 7DS paper is much more diffuse although the surface does not look that much different to the Canon Photo Paper Glossy.
But what does this mean for the prints?
Setting the Matt paper aside I have 5 sheets of A4 in front of me. 2 on Canon papers using the settings provided in the Canon printer driver and 3 on the much cheaper 7DS paper using the 2 Canon paper settings and what I assume is the more generic 'Glossy Paper' option.
Comparing the Canon Papers the Photo Paper Plus Glossy offers a slightly smoother result over the range of colours in the images although the effects are not easy to spot and not necessarily consistent for all colours. The lighter of the two images printed (not very light though!) looks slightly better to my eyes on the Plus Glossy which seems to be a very slightly creamier white colour than the Pro. On the other hand the darker image come across marginally better, depending on intent, on the Pro paper. At normal viewing distance for the size of print one would be hard pushed to spot the differences.
So what of the 7DS paper?
Comparing to the Photo Paper Pro and using the Photo Paper Pro setting, the gloss is slightly less due to the Orange peel but the blak areas are slightly more intense and the overall effect, across all colours, seems slightly smoother.
Comparing to the Photo Paper Plus Glossy it is really difficult to see anyting different at all. The 7DS paper is very slightly whiter I think and this may contribute to any areas which are significantly influenced by yellow in these images being slightly more yellowish. But the difference is very marginal to my eyes. Whilst there is very little in ot on balance I preferred the 7DS paper using the PPPG setting to print to either of the Canon papers in terms of colour rendition and control of gradation.
But smoothest of them all, other than for level of gloss, was the 7DS paper using the 'Glossy Photo Paper' printer setting. An absolutuely cracking result to my eyes especially in the difficult 'not quite black' areas of the print.
I had better try it with a more colour balanced image in case it is dreadful with greens or bright reds but at the moment I have to say I am very surprised and pleased with the results.
I have also just tried a print on Kodak Premium Photo Paper (PPP-4-A)using its recommended Canon 'Photo Paper Pro' setting. The results, at first sight, are very similar the Canon Photo Paper Pro results EXCEPT that the Kodak paper appears to be a semi gloss which means the overall apearance is less satisfactory for these dark images.
There are some issues to consider.
Firstly the archival properties may not be the same with this paper/ink combination as Canon claim for their own paper. Whether this is important will depend on purpose and ones own preferences.
Secondly we can have no idea whether 7DS's supply source for this paper will always be consistent. But then that may also be true for manufacturer's own papers, although one might at least expect think that the big name players would ensure consistent quality control when they specify to the supplier the formulation they require.
Own brand products MAY be less predictable with supplies being obtained wherever they can be sourced at a suitable price. However so long as the sort of quality found here is maintained overall that may not matter much! The price point is highly desirable for a usually expensive consumable and even some variation in quality would still seem likely to be able to offer a product well on a par with alternatives in the market.
I'm beginning to wish I had not procured quite so much Kodak paper at a Tesco clearout a few weeks ago ....
The images I used were challenging at the dark end of luminance but have some light areas and highlights. No greens though so this is not a conclusive check of overall quality. The shots were taken in dark conditions and with high ISO and have been subjected to a fair amount of Neat Image work to smooth the colours. Lighting was an orange car park light. One shot was rebalanced to make a light grey look light grey. The second was left as is so the light grey looks like a pale yellow and maroon shifts to muddy brown (when the ink dries. Fresh out of the printer under room lights it was a nice maroon!)
I ran a Canon Matt Paper reference print out of interest and while it still looks good at a reasonable viewing distance the darkness of the images is not so good when viewed at a slight angle, blacks or not as intense as from the gloss papers which is to be expected. But beyond that the strong dark/medium colours print quite accurately as seen on screen but are somewhat 'blotchy' and some deep blue in a cloud area has very obvious banding, suggesting that the printer driver may not get too much attention from the programmers. On the other hand
to be fair about this I am printing a 1000x750 file at 190x142 mm.
Comparing the glossy papers you have to look closely to spot the differences. I doubt most people would pick up on them viewing an album or a wall hung image. In fact you need to jump back and forth between them several times to spot anything different at all.
In terms of smooth glossiness the Canon Photo Paper Pro offers the smoothest surface followed by Canon Photo Paper Glossy which is marginally smoother than the much cheaper 7Dayshop glossy paper. Think of the latter two as having a little more 'orange peel' in motor paint finish terms. But there really is not much in it between the Canon Papers if you see a reflection of an object off the surface. The same reflection from the 7DS paper is much more diffuse although the surface does not look that much different to the Canon Photo Paper Glossy.
But what does this mean for the prints?
Setting the Matt paper aside I have 5 sheets of A4 in front of me. 2 on Canon papers using the settings provided in the Canon printer driver and 3 on the much cheaper 7DS paper using the 2 Canon paper settings and what I assume is the more generic 'Glossy Paper' option.
Comparing the Canon Papers the Photo Paper Plus Glossy offers a slightly smoother result over the range of colours in the images although the effects are not easy to spot and not necessarily consistent for all colours. The lighter of the two images printed (not very light though!) looks slightly better to my eyes on the Plus Glossy which seems to be a very slightly creamier white colour than the Pro. On the other hand the darker image come across marginally better, depending on intent, on the Pro paper. At normal viewing distance for the size of print one would be hard pushed to spot the differences.
So what of the 7DS paper?
Comparing to the Photo Paper Pro and using the Photo Paper Pro setting, the gloss is slightly less due to the Orange peel but the blak areas are slightly more intense and the overall effect, across all colours, seems slightly smoother.
Comparing to the Photo Paper Plus Glossy it is really difficult to see anyting different at all. The 7DS paper is very slightly whiter I think and this may contribute to any areas which are significantly influenced by yellow in these images being slightly more yellowish. But the difference is very marginal to my eyes. Whilst there is very little in ot on balance I preferred the 7DS paper using the PPPG setting to print to either of the Canon papers in terms of colour rendition and control of gradation.
But smoothest of them all, other than for level of gloss, was the 7DS paper using the 'Glossy Photo Paper' printer setting. An absolutuely cracking result to my eyes especially in the difficult 'not quite black' areas of the print.
I had better try it with a more colour balanced image in case it is dreadful with greens or bright reds but at the moment I have to say I am very surprised and pleased with the results.
I have also just tried a print on Kodak Premium Photo Paper (PPP-4-A)using its recommended Canon 'Photo Paper Pro' setting. The results, at first sight, are very similar the Canon Photo Paper Pro results EXCEPT that the Kodak paper appears to be a semi gloss which means the overall apearance is less satisfactory for these dark images.
There are some issues to consider.
Firstly the archival properties may not be the same with this paper/ink combination as Canon claim for their own paper. Whether this is important will depend on purpose and ones own preferences.
Secondly we can have no idea whether 7DS's supply source for this paper will always be consistent. But then that may also be true for manufacturer's own papers, although one might at least expect think that the big name players would ensure consistent quality control when they specify to the supplier the formulation they require.
Own brand products MAY be less predictable with supplies being obtained wherever they can be sourced at a suitable price. However so long as the sort of quality found here is maintained overall that may not matter much! The price point is highly desirable for a usually expensive consumable and even some variation in quality would still seem likely to be able to offer a product well on a par with alternatives in the market.
I'm beginning to wish I had not procured quite so much Kodak paper at a Tesco clearout a few weeks ago ....
nighthawk said:
I've tried the tft with the brightness all the way down, the images don't look right as they take on a greyish tone.
I have the profiles from epson for the 950 and the premium glossy paper.
Interesting how you say "let the printer determine colours", all the guides say to set that box to let photoshop determine colours
I have the profiles from epson for the 950 and the premium glossy paper.
Interesting how you say "let the printer determine colours", all the guides say to set that box to let photoshop determine colours
yeah let printer determine colours - dam lager
Form my reading the key seesm to be to ensure that only one of the potential control sources is active - either the printer driver or the printing application.
So in the case of my Canon the only controls available are the selection of a printer (might have more than one of different models), media type and 2 tick boxes for "Vivid Photo" and "Photo Noise Reduction".
Beyond that there are trimming and rotation possibilities for layout control and Enhancements limited to Red Eye Correction, Face Brightener and Face Sharpener. That's it.
The results, when viewed in daylight, between the screen and resulting print look vary good indeed. You might expect colour variations because of the different light sources but they are marginal and balanced across the entire range of colours - so all are shifted, if they are shifted, and to the eye, for these images, there is no obvious discernable difference of significance in the resulting output.
Having that base line I will run some experiments printing through Adobe Lightroom to see what differences become evident.
So in the case of my Canon the only controls available are the selection of a printer (might have more than one of different models), media type and 2 tick boxes for "Vivid Photo" and "Photo Noise Reduction".
Beyond that there are trimming and rotation possibilities for layout control and Enhancements limited to Red Eye Correction, Face Brightener and Face Sharpener. That's it.
The results, when viewed in daylight, between the screen and resulting print look vary good indeed. You might expect colour variations because of the different light sources but they are marginal and balanced across the entire range of colours - so all are shifted, if they are shifted, and to the eye, for these images, there is no obvious discernable difference of significance in the resulting output.
Having that base line I will run some experiments printing through Adobe Lightroom to see what differences become evident.
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