Wonder what Red Ken makes of Sir Iqbal's latest?
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4579146.stm
I find it amazing that even though our liberal oppressors insist on peddling a mantra of universal integration and acceptance, potential beneficiaries once again demonstrate aspects of an intolerance which only serves to undermine such very notions.
I trust this fellow will be denounced by all mainstream politicos for such barely concealed prejudice?
No, I didn't think so.
I find it amazing that even though our liberal oppressors insist on peddling a mantra of universal integration and acceptance, potential beneficiaries once again demonstrate aspects of an intolerance which only serves to undermine such very notions.
I trust this fellow will be denounced by all mainstream politicos for such barely concealed prejudice?
No, I didn't think so.
t.derestrictor said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4579146.stm
I find it amazing that even though our liberal oppressors insist on peddling a mantra of universal integration and acceptance, potential beneficiaries once again demonstrate aspects of an intolerance which only serves to undermine such very notions.
I trust this fellow will be denounced by all mainstream politicos for such barely concealed prejudice?
No, I didn't think so.
whats the problem???
dont really like the man but he's hardly calling for homosexuals to be burnt at the steak is he?
All he is saying is that gay marriage is not helpful for stable family relationships.
Would you be happy for gay men to adopt children??(this is where his argument is leading)
personally i dont think there is anything wrong with a legal marriage, but that is as far as it should go.
ANd he does ultimately say that people should be tolerant and that they should excercise their democratic right if they disagree with something...
Why, is it UN-PC for him to say this??? Thought you were one of those fighting for freedom of speech etc.
Marki said:
An Arab guy i knew told me Homosexual sex is quite normal in many middle east countrys
(flame proof suit on )
It is. I used to live next to the beach in Bahrain and there were forever cars parked in the car park with two blokes going at it during the night.
Don't confuse Arab people with devout Muslims. Just because a person happens to be an Arab, doesn't mean that they are a devout Muslim. The Qur'an does specifically say that homosexuality is unacceptable, but then again the Christian bible isn't exactly a paragon of political correctness either.
peterpeter said:
whats the problem???
dont really like the man but he's hardly calling for homosexuals to be burnt at the steak is he?
All he is saying is that gay marriage is not helpful for stable family relationships.
Would you be happy for gay men to adopt children??(this is where his argument is leading)
He has a much right as anyone else to make his arguments.
He did say though that homosexuality itself was not acceptable rather than limit himself to speaking out against gay adoption.
I find it ironic that a key tenet of Political correctness (as stated in the article above) is that all minority groups share a common enemy in the white male heterosexual oppressors. In fact many minority groups, or parts of those groups, are the enemy of tolerance and liberalism, as the Dutch have discovered.
peterpeter said:
dont really like the man but he's hardly calling for homosexuals to be burnt at the steak is he?
Shouldn't that be "burnt like a steak"?
I guess he is sticking to the party line - i.e. the Qur'an - in saying homosexuality is unacceptable. Unfortunately, to a minority that feels itself already under threat and a little paranoid, it is a view that could easily pander to extreme points of view within the muslim part of our society, and sound like an official sanctioning of homophobia. It's bad enough having minority elements persecuted by a wider society, without national leaders giving the green light to that oppression.
peterpeter said:
Would you be happy for gay men to adopt children??(this is where his argument is leading)
Before this thread goes there, this has been debated at length on here.
I will say again what I said then - for anyone to become an adopter is a very long and difficult process. If a gay man/partnership is approved to adopt then they will have been through a very invasive and exhaustive assessment. Usually, such adopters have older/disabled/learning difficulties children placed with them - the kids no one else wants to put it bluntly.
There is little doubt that they will provide a loving and supportive environment which is infinitely preferable to a childhood being moved from foster home to foster home or spent in a childrens home.
Arguments against this are ill-informed and a result of ignorant prejudice.
Whether one agrees with a particular point of view is obviously a personal opinion. What I object to is people being told NOT to express an opinion - one way or another. A few weeks a ago a lady expressed an opinion against homosexually on Radio Five Live, only to be interviewed by the police later that day! To me, this is no better than someone expressing a "pro-homosexuality" opinion in, say, Iran and later being called to task by the Iranian authorities.
Some years ago I remember watching a party political broadast by the BNP. At the time there was loads of pressure on broadcasters not to show it. However, I'm glad they had the backbone to broadcast it because it showed the BNP in all of their deluded bigotry - quite frankly it made me feel sick. If they had been prohibited then the BNP would probably have come out looking like a victim and may have received some sympathy. However, most reasonable people were appalled at their opinions but would defend their right to express them.
Some years ago I remember watching a party political broadast by the BNP. At the time there was loads of pressure on broadcasters not to show it. However, I'm glad they had the backbone to broadcast it because it showed the BNP in all of their deluded bigotry - quite frankly it made me feel sick. If they had been prohibited then the BNP would probably have come out looking like a victim and may have received some sympathy. However, most reasonable people were appalled at their opinions but would defend their right to express them.
Marki said:
Don't confuse Arab people with devout Muslims.
I am not its just that he seems to be having a go at Western (UK)liberal standards
and way of life while forgeting what goe´s on in the middle east which is after all the centre of the islamic world
But you still are. "What goes on" in the Middle East is generally no different to what goes on in the UK or in Africa or on the North Pole. People are just people. Gay people, straight people, black people, white people, fat people, thin people, ugly people, pretty people, so it goes on. It doesn't matter if someone is born brown skinned and muslim, that doesn't stop him from being gay, agnostic and living in Saudi Arabia. Sacranie may blather on about what is acceptable to Muslims, but he can't force anybody into his rather bigoted theological perspective. The only difference is that in Saudi Arabia the theology is enforced at the sharp end of a machine gun. This doesn't stop people from being people, it just makes them repressed.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Don't confuse Arab people with devout Muslims.
I am not its just that he seems to be having a go at Western (UK)liberal standards
and way of life while forgeting what goe´s on in the middle east which is after all the centre of the islamic world
But you still are. "What goes on" in the Middle East is generally no different to what goes on in the UK or in Africa or on the North Pole. People are just people. Gay people, straight people, black people, white people, fat people, thin people, ugly people, pretty people, so it goes on. It doesn't matter if someone is born brown skinned and muslim, that doesn't stop him from being gay, agnostic and living in Saudi Arabia. Sacranie may blather on about what is acceptable to Muslims, but he can't force anybody into his rather bigoted theological perspective. The only difference is that in Saudi Arabia the theology is enforced at the sharp end of a machine gun. This doesn't stop people from being people, it just makes them repressed.
is this the 5 or 10 minute argument 
Thank you.srebbe64 said:
Whether one agrees with a particular point of view is obviously a personal opinion. What I object to is people being told NOT to express an opinion - one way or another. A few weeks a ago a lady expressed an opinion against homosexually on Radio Five Live, only to be interviewed by the police later that day! To me, this is no better than someone expressing a "pro-homosexuality" opinion in, say, Iran and later being called to task by the Iranian authorities.
I agree
I just find it rather amusing when Tatchell talks of his 'shared alliance against homophobia and islamophobia'
Marki said:
Don't confuse Arab people with devout Muslims.
I am not its just that he seems to be having a go at Western (UK)liberal standards
and way of life while forgeting what goe´s on in the middle east which is after all the centre of the islamic world
But you still are. "What goes on" in the Middle East is generally no different to what goes on in the UK or in Africa or on the North Pole. People are just people. Gay people, straight people, black people, white people, fat people, thin people, ugly people, pretty people, so it goes on. It doesn't matter if someone is born brown skinned and muslim, that doesn't stop him from being gay, agnostic and living in Saudi Arabia. Sacranie may blather on about what is acceptable to Muslims, but he can't force anybody into his rather bigoted theological perspective. The only difference is that in Saudi Arabia the theology is enforced at the sharp end of a machine gun. This doesn't stop people from being people, it just makes them repressed.
I told you once.
Jaglover said:
In fact many minority groups, or parts of those groups, are the enemy of tolerance and liberalism, as the Dutch have discovered.
This is true, yes. This is why the Dutch are becoming more intolerant towards Muslims now.
And wether of not Holland is tolerant, I'd like to leave in the middle. That's best discussed in a pub with a beer in hand. Suffice to say, I think it's a load of bollox. Dutch people are not tolerant in their hearts, never have been, never will be. They just sometimes accept things because they cannot do anything about it. Dutch people are pragmatic, nothing more, nothing less.
>> Edited by NAS on Wednesday 4th January 09:49
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