The Racist Thread
Discussion
There we go, we've got that out of the way, so perhaps we can have some reasoned debate without the usual name calling.
Now, one thing that the earlier thread relating to Rhodesia caused me to think about is "Why is it that whenever the topic of colonialism is raised, everyone assumes the British are to blame?", noone seems to consider that this kind of behaviour was perfectly normal in history, so normal, in fact, that I find it amazing that it is used to place such cultural bias against our nation.
What about the French, Germans, Dutch, Belgians, Spanish etc etc?
In my experience, I've never heard of these nationalities being berated for their colonial past. So why? I can't believe that it was because these countries were any nicer to the indigenous population (whatever their colour/race/creed/religion/class/caste/shoe size), so what is it?
Any suggestions?
Now, one thing that the earlier thread relating to Rhodesia caused me to think about is "Why is it that whenever the topic of colonialism is raised, everyone assumes the British are to blame?", noone seems to consider that this kind of behaviour was perfectly normal in history, so normal, in fact, that I find it amazing that it is used to place such cultural bias against our nation.
What about the French, Germans, Dutch, Belgians, Spanish etc etc?
In my experience, I've never heard of these nationalities being berated for their colonial past. So why? I can't believe that it was because these countries were any nicer to the indigenous population (whatever their colour/race/creed/religion/class/caste/shoe size), so what is it?
Any suggestions?
Having lived in North Africa for a year back in the late '90's, I witnessed so much racism amongst the local population, it was unbelievable.
African cultures are full of different tribes, etc... and are therefore racist against each other. People seem to forget that racism was alive and well in Africa long before the 'white' man set foot on those shores.
The problem now is the growing corruption in the governments and the ever blurring lines between that and racism.
African cultures are full of different tribes, etc... and are therefore racist against each other. People seem to forget that racism was alive and well in Africa long before the 'white' man set foot on those shores.
The problem now is the growing corruption in the governments and the ever blurring lines between that and racism.
TBH in my travels I've heared plenty of vitriol against the French & Spanish colonial antics. Our's are probably more evident due to the sheer scale of our activities and the involvement we still have in many cases with those places.
An Indian colleague described it to me once. The British came to India and brought many good things. What we also did was completely destroy the traditional way of rule & remove that for a number of generations. We then installed typical british inefficient & bureacratic processes & infrastructure in to govern the country which were not suited to the Indian way of doing things. When we left, they were saddled by this beast and have taken a long time to get rid of it. Left to their own devices it went a bit nasty due to the governance suddenly going. They do a lot of things differently in India, some of which are we do not find acceptable. Things are now stabilising & India is growing quicky economically, much of it due to the language legacy that we left behind.
BTW the above are the opinions of my colleague, although having spent time there I am shamefully ignorant of the history of the place.
An Indian colleague described it to me once. The British came to India and brought many good things. What we also did was completely destroy the traditional way of rule & remove that for a number of generations. We then installed typical british inefficient & bureacratic processes & infrastructure in to govern the country which were not suited to the Indian way of doing things. When we left, they were saddled by this beast and have taken a long time to get rid of it. Left to their own devices it went a bit nasty due to the governance suddenly going. They do a lot of things differently in India, some of which are we do not find acceptable. Things are now stabilising & India is growing quicky economically, much of it due to the language legacy that we left behind.
BTW the above are the opinions of my colleague, although having spent time there I am shamefully ignorant of the history of the place.
well we're not the only ones at all but did admit had to cringe every time i read the brief history of each country i visited on a travel round the world tour as we always seemed to have done something wrong!
that said we just probably had more flags hence could claim more countries as our own..
that said we just probably had more flags hence could claim more countries as our own..
Of course other countries are blamed for their colonial pasts – witness France’s messes all over West, Central and North Africa, and their handling of Indochine – a direct responsibility for the Vietnam War. Or Spain for the wiping out of entire South America peoples, and subsequent problems in those countries. They get plenty of flak troo, trust me.
God, I hate everyone whingeing about how Britain cops the blame for all of the world’s woes. Newsflash – we don’t.
God, I hate everyone whingeing about how Britain cops the blame for all of the world’s woes. Newsflash – we don’t.
The French still pay for the errors that occurred during their colonial period - e.g. the pull out from Algeria leaving all their indigenous allies behind to be slaughtered.
I'm sure that the early days of all colonising countries involved some slavery/slaughtering of existing populations - the British don't stand out for me as particularly worse than the rest.
I'm sure that the early days of all colonising countries involved some slavery/slaughtering of existing populations - the British don't stand out for me as particularly worse than the rest.
The modern equivalent is now "Why does everyone hate USA?"
Considering that for the most part the USA has been a generous friend to poor nations, allbeit with ulterior motives, and their military power has helped to stop two global conflicts.
I suppose it must have something to do with perceived imperialism and domination of weaker countries.
Britain's imperial past was very aggressive, and usually involved warmongering for economic gain - I think we largely subjugated other nations through force, and most other European nations tended to end up fighting us rather than "the natives". However, there was an element of civilising or at least westernising which has subsequently stood many nations in good stead. Unlike the current Iraq situation, British conquest often led to long periods of stability and economic prosperity, and progress in infrastructure which seems a reasonable trade-off for the plundering of resources which were largely untapped at the time.
I suppose someone will at some point mention slavery, but we look at that with modern eyes - it was seen as an economic necessity at the time, and was in fact the norm for civilised societies for thousands of years - Roman civilisation was built by enforced mass slavery, but we don't ask the Italians to apologise for it, do we?
It is unrealistic to correct the mistakes of history - it's just a form of reverse racism and opportunisitic PC.
Considering that for the most part the USA has been a generous friend to poor nations, allbeit with ulterior motives, and their military power has helped to stop two global conflicts.
I suppose it must have something to do with perceived imperialism and domination of weaker countries.
Britain's imperial past was very aggressive, and usually involved warmongering for economic gain - I think we largely subjugated other nations through force, and most other European nations tended to end up fighting us rather than "the natives". However, there was an element of civilising or at least westernising which has subsequently stood many nations in good stead. Unlike the current Iraq situation, British conquest often led to long periods of stability and economic prosperity, and progress in infrastructure which seems a reasonable trade-off for the plundering of resources which were largely untapped at the time.
I suppose someone will at some point mention slavery, but we look at that with modern eyes - it was seen as an economic necessity at the time, and was in fact the norm for civilised societies for thousands of years - Roman civilisation was built by enforced mass slavery, but we don't ask the Italians to apologise for it, do we?
It is unrealistic to correct the mistakes of history - it's just a form of reverse racism and opportunisitic PC.
scared but happy said:
One thing I have always wanted to know. Do the Spanish hate us british foreigners for taking their homes and jobs? as there seems to be a huge emigration to Spain lately.
They are probably more worried about the North Africans, the English going there tend to have money already and are just seen as more people to rob, the North Africans tend to be poor and wanting jobs and willing to work for less etc, usual stuff.
Harry Flashman said:
They get plenty of flak troo, trust me.
Where? From whom?
Harry Flashman said:
God, I hate everyone whingeing about how Britain cops the blame for all of the world’s woes. Newsflash – we don’t.
Have you ever lived in an ex-colony? Ever had to go to school in an atmosphere where it was ok to pick on the English because, well, erm,
, they're English aren't they? scared but happy said:
One thing I have always wanted to know. Do the Spanish hate us british foreigners for taking their homes and jobs? as there seems to be a huge emigration to Spain lately.
In the non-resort area where my in laws spend half the year, they don't mind the English/Swedish/Germans. In Torrevieja, one of the doctors in the fantastic new hospital said things were different as there is the perception that "they come over here and sponge off the state" reaction to a lot of retiree's. My Father in law had his car (british plate) vandalised twice in Torrevieja area. Has not happened to the Spanish car he now drives.
billb said:
Every time I read the brief history of each country I visited on a travel round the world tour as we always seemed to have done something wrong!
Every colonising country has done something perverse and detrimental to the country it colonised. Yes, it was a sign of the times and the "done thing", but thats the way it was. If a country is still suffering from colonisation wether present or past, then there should be a duty on the coloniser to right their wrongs. The world wouldn't stand for those antics today, so it's a bit unfair to those suffering that the western world sits back, throws an apology at them and then leaves them to it. Whoever caused the mess, should be at least, partly responsible and made to help clean it up. I have no doubt that each and every colonising country raped and pillaged the country it took over.
TeamD said:
Have you ever lived in an ex-colony? Ever had to go to school in an atmosphere where it was ok to pick on the English because, well, erm,
Well, I'm from an ex-colony, actually (or rather, my family are - I was born here). An English one at that. I have spent nearly three years travelling through lots of ex-colonies, frequently with white friends. I have lived and worked in ex-colonies.
And I can tell you that colonial resentment (where it exists, and it is by no means everywhere) depends on where you are. The Cambodians and other nations of that area blame the French. East Africans blame the English. etc etc.
I think that, unfortunately, you had a bad experience (or several) at the hands of ignorant people. And that it has left you with something of a chip on your shoulder.
>> Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 21st December 11:13
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