TVR Really will have Problems against the TSO Marcos
Discussion
At Top Gear yesterday (it will be a Bloody good one - top top Guest).
TSO there and alot smaller than the pics so far hint at - basically T350 / Sag sized - which surprises you.
Ok it is not as nice in the flesh (really in the extenal detailing) as a Sag. But as they say on the track test (due to the Chevy lump) is is the easiest car to hang out and have real fun without it potentially biting, becuase of the Huge lazy torque SP6 too peaky in comparison, to reall play at the limit for extended periods(combine that with 1100kg) and it is a Missile. Rolls more than Sag but that is really nothing. These thing rev as well!
Interior really nice (not sure on centre dials but basic environment really nice).
And they could so easily improve it - fantastic first effort - best of Sag and this would be ideal. Both Great.
Just different.
TSO there and alot smaller than the pics so far hint at - basically T350 / Sag sized - which surprises you.
Ok it is not as nice in the flesh (really in the extenal detailing) as a Sag. But as they say on the track test (due to the Chevy lump) is is the easiest car to hang out and have real fun without it potentially biting, becuase of the Huge lazy torque SP6 too peaky in comparison, to reall play at the limit for extended periods(combine that with 1100kg) and it is a Missile. Rolls more than Sag but that is really nothing. These thing rev as well!
Interior really nice (not sure on centre dials but basic environment really nice).
And they could so easily improve it - fantastic first effort - best of Sag and this would be ideal. Both Great.
Just different.
Agree with "both great but different".
For me, the Marcos is let down severely by the apparent lack of thought that went into the interior, and for me the driving position and visibility was not good at all. (I saw the protorype at the Griff Growl)
The plus points are the huge boot space (important for me, as I traipse about the country a bit) and a decent size fuel tank - I hate playing "hunt the optimax". I like the engine too - it's a supurb choice. Shame I haven't driven one, as I might change my mind about the interior...
I liked being in the Sagaris and loved the way it drove, however it didn't really feel "quick" - much like my STi doesn't feel "quick" - but it handled very competently - much better IMHO than the Tuscan 2. Get it to about 100 units/h and that seemed to be it for acceleration. Maybe I wasn't reving it hard enough, and maybe the Sag I drove wasn't completely run in?
All-in-all, 2 great cars, but I couldn't live with an interior that seems to be hiding things from me all the time.
For me, the Marcos is let down severely by the apparent lack of thought that went into the interior, and for me the driving position and visibility was not good at all. (I saw the protorype at the Griff Growl)
The plus points are the huge boot space (important for me, as I traipse about the country a bit) and a decent size fuel tank - I hate playing "hunt the optimax". I like the engine too - it's a supurb choice. Shame I haven't driven one, as I might change my mind about the interior...
I liked being in the Sagaris and loved the way it drove, however it didn't really feel "quick" - much like my STi doesn't feel "quick" - but it handled very competently - much better IMHO than the Tuscan 2. Get it to about 100 units/h and that seemed to be it for acceleration. Maybe I wasn't reving it hard enough, and maybe the Sag I drove wasn't completely run in?
All-in-all, 2 great cars, but I couldn't live with an interior that seems to be hiding things from me all the time.
Sat in a TSO at the MPH-05 show recently. The looks certainly grew on me, but boy is it small! I certainly would not go for the Coupe. As a Chim driver, I think I'd go for the soft-top anyway.
I think it's a totally different car to the Sagaris - much more akin to the Griffs and Chims.
I will certainly be testing one when they become available to do so. But it will take a lot to divert me from the Tuscan 2 Convertible I'm aiming for later this year...
I think it's a totally different car to the Sagaris - much more akin to the Griffs and Chims.
I will certainly be testing one when they become available to do so. But it will take a lot to divert me from the Tuscan 2 Convertible I'm aiming for later this year...
The interior of the GT2 isnt a patch on the Sagaris for flair, quality or space. The luggage area though is a good size.
The extra 100ft of torque or whatever the GT2 has really makes all the difference in the world. You have to be a gear lower, and have the revs up around 4k rpm before nailing the throttle wide open in the Gris to keep with a GT2 when it opens the taps.
Given that (I think) there have only been 3 folks in the world who have played chase me with a Gris and GT2, some of the comments regarding comparative performance on here do keep amusing me.
The extra 100ft of torque or whatever the GT2 has really makes all the difference in the world. You have to be a gear lower, and have the revs up around 4k rpm before nailing the throttle wide open in the Gris to keep with a GT2 when it opens the taps.
Given that (I think) there have only been 3 folks in the world who have played chase me with a Gris and GT2, some of the comments regarding comparative performance on here do keep amusing me.
SharkyTVR said:
. . . but boy is it small! I certainly would not go for the Coupe. . . . it will take a lot to divert me from the Tuscan 2 Convertible I'm aiming for later this year...
. . . I read that every now and then. So 'will I fit' is a question. The Tusc 2 C is gorgeous . . . and big enough for guys like me (1.86 m)
lottery!LS's pull like made thing from no revs above 5k (to 6.5) is warp factor territory.
What the Marcos on TG when the stick slams it into each gear and nails it - it is like it is being fired from a cannon - not as quite round the corners as a Sag - but is all in the setup (brake balance on the TG Marcos is all wrong - would be faster if a bit more rear bias and stiffer).
What the Marcos on TG when the stick slams it into each gear and nails it - it is like it is being fired from a cannon - not as quite round the corners as a Sag - but is all in the setup (brake balance on the TG Marcos is all wrong - would be faster if a bit more rear bias and stiffer).
It's not exactly a standard Scooby (or a standard Griff for that matter) I don't think all the mods are listed for either - I'll get around to that one day. I'm not a driving god, but would hope I'm slightly "above average". 
I tested the sag on some twisties - hence why I think the Scoob is comparible - (all the roads round me are potholed and twisty
) On a decent A road (or smooth track) I'm sure it wouldn't be anything near, as the Scoob would run out of gears - it's got a silly short box. The Griff feels unsettled at the slightest undulation in the road, so it's only safely quick on good A roads (as the bikers at the Growl found out - I don't think they were really trying...)
As I said, I've not driven a TSO, but I did drive (and very much like) the Sagaris. Feeling quick is totally different to BEING quick. If you want a demo of this, then try driving a BMW 530D.
>> Edited by dnb on Thursday 8th December 17:41
I tested the sag on some twisties - hence why I think the Scoob is comparible - (all the roads round me are potholed and twisty
) On a decent A road (or smooth track) I'm sure it wouldn't be anything near, as the Scoob would run out of gears - it's got a silly short box. The Griff feels unsettled at the slightest undulation in the road, so it's only safely quick on good A roads (as the bikers at the Growl found out - I don't think they were really trying...) As I said, I've not driven a TSO, but I did drive (and very much like) the Sagaris. Feeling quick is totally different to BEING quick. If you want a demo of this, then try driving a BMW 530D.
>> Edited by dnb on Thursday 8th December 17:41
Just for interest, I've got a bog standard 9000 2.3 turbo saab and that reels in scoobies on the straight including those WRX types. I've got 200 odd horsepower, don't know what they have.
An ls1 has 320 plus. An ls6 has 405 at the crank. The marcos won't have 475 but it will have over 400 bhp and 400 lbs ft. I'd guess at 440 tops. However, the torque will be over 300 lbs/ft from 2000 rpm for a mild engine tune. It does have grunt.
Boosted.
An ls1 has 320 plus. An ls6 has 405 at the crank. The marcos won't have 475 but it will have over 400 bhp and 400 lbs ft. I'd guess at 440 tops. However, the torque will be over 300 lbs/ft from 2000 rpm for a mild engine tune. It does have grunt.
Boosted.
dnb said:
Given that (I think) there have only been 3 folks in the world who have played chase me with a Gris and GT2, some of the comments regarding comparative performance on here do keep amusing me.
Care to give a few more details?
No real pt, it would seem ppl dont actually read what is put in front of them anyway.
Suffice to say a well driven Sagaris will keep with a well driven TS0 on a country road at interesting speeds. Above that, i.e. in the silly zone, it comes down purely to the drivers knowing the road, traffic conditions and how silly as a driver you want to be. What the Sagaris driver does have to do is understand that he has to play the anticipation game to keep with the TSO because the LS6 has the low down grunt to just go, the Sagaris cant match that. You already have to be a gear lower, have read the road in front first and understand when the TSo driver is going to nail it, so you can already be on the gas. Do that and you will stick right on his arse if you want. Dont and his torque will lose you.
Different driving styles with the cars, the TS0 is definately playing the old school Grif game, the Sagaris is playing the screaming race engine game.
When you get into this sort of performance territory it just gets silly. If people are really sad enough to buy one model over the other just because it does 0-100 a second quicker or has 100 ft/lb's of torque more than the other then so be it.
They both appear to be mammoth on paper and in my opinion it will come down to the aesthetics. The Marcos doesn't do it on the inside or outside for me. I think the Sagaris will appeal to a wider audience on that front whereas the Imellda is a bit of a Marmite car.
Scott
They both appear to be mammoth on paper and in my opinion it will come down to the aesthetics. The Marcos doesn't do it on the inside or outside for me. I think the Sagaris will appeal to a wider audience on that front whereas the Imellda is a bit of a Marmite car.
Scott
purpleheadedcerb said:Agreed, sat in the Marcos at the Griff Growl and hell it was cramped and I'm only 5'9" and 14 stone. getting in the Sagaris afterwards was the usual TVR sensual and visual delight! Rich...
The Marcos doesn't do it on the inside or outside for me. I think the Sagaris will appeal to a wider audience on that front whereas the Imellda is a bit of a Marmite car.
Scott
sparkythecat said:
Have Marcos actually produced any of the TSO cars for sale yet?
Where does one go for a look or a test drive?
Contact Marcos on 01676-536003. They'll let you know when they have a space on their test-drive schedule. Turn up and away you go. They're on Prodrives site near Kenilworth.
Feeling quick is totally different to BEING quick. If you want a demo of this, then try driving a BMW 530D!!!
Er I have a 1100kg Chimera with a 400bhp and a little less torque. This will rev a hell of a lot higher than a Rover and not that far off a SP6 but with massive amount more torque. (On a straight a similar weight car will disappear compared to Sag or Tusc S - Top end is just mind altering. You hardly ever need go above 5k (350bhp there) and massive torque from 1k revs. You can drive these every day and not lay a spanner on them for 100k mile (change the spark plugs!) the run for a few more 100k miles.................
Drive a V70 T5 that is quicker than a 530D and the feels like it is parked up on block compared to an LS6 power light car.
GT2 is Great but a Sag with an LS6 or LS2 (the 6.0 litre version) would be mind altering.
Er I have a 1100kg Chimera with a 400bhp and a little less torque. This will rev a hell of a lot higher than a Rover and not that far off a SP6 but with massive amount more torque. (On a straight a similar weight car will disappear compared to Sag or Tusc S - Top end is just mind altering. You hardly ever need go above 5k (350bhp there) and massive torque from 1k revs. You can drive these every day and not lay a spanner on them for 100k mile (change the spark plugs!) the run for a few more 100k miles.................
Drive a V70 T5 that is quicker than a 530D and the feels like it is parked up on block compared to an LS6 power light car.
GT2 is Great but a Sag with an LS6 or LS2 (the 6.0 litre version) would be mind altering.
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