Discussion
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www.jeld-wen.co.uk/brochures.asp
They are fully priced out. They generally give a big discount on these retail prices but they should be accurate enough for your project.
As to lifetime issues
UPVC would be expected to last 30-40 years although in practice it would probably last the full term of 60. The only maintenance it requires is a bit of adjustment of the hinges every few years; say 10.
www.bpf.co.uk/bpfissues/pvc_windows8.cfm
Softwood windows are much more prone to rot than hardwood and would require redecoration every 3-5 years, and replacement after about 20. So in your 60 year building lifespan you could expect to replace them twice.
Hardwood windows are much more resistant to rot. They'll still require relatively frequent decoration but should last more like 30 years. Given good maintenance they could last the full 60 years.
As to initial cost, hardwood is probably the most expensive.
Handy website
http://paccrestinspections.com/life.html
Edited to add that I forgot Aluminium. These are the priciest of the lot. They are inert, like UPVC, so should last the full 60 years with ease.
>> Edited by rsvmilly on Wednesday 7th December 16:24
www.jeld-wen.co.uk/brochures.asp
They are fully priced out. They generally give a big discount on these retail prices but they should be accurate enough for your project.
As to lifetime issues
UPVC would be expected to last 30-40 years although in practice it would probably last the full term of 60. The only maintenance it requires is a bit of adjustment of the hinges every few years; say 10.
www.bpf.co.uk/bpfissues/pvc_windows8.cfm
Softwood windows are much more prone to rot than hardwood and would require redecoration every 3-5 years, and replacement after about 20. So in your 60 year building lifespan you could expect to replace them twice.
Hardwood windows are much more resistant to rot. They'll still require relatively frequent decoration but should last more like 30 years. Given good maintenance they could last the full 60 years.
As to initial cost, hardwood is probably the most expensive.
Handy website
http://paccrestinspections.com/life.html
Edited to add that I forgot Aluminium. These are the priciest of the lot. They are inert, like UPVC, so should last the full 60 years with ease.
>> Edited by rsvmilly on Wednesday 7th December 16:24
rsvmilly said:
UPVC would be expected to last 30-40 years although in practice it would probably last the full term of 60. The only maintenance it requires is a bit of adjustment of the hinges every few years; say 10.
Edited to add that I forgot Aluminium. These are the priciest of the lot. They are inert, like UPVC, so should last the full 60 years with ease.
They'll need more than tightening of the hinges over 10 years. The seals of the windows are only guaranteed for 20 years (dependent on whom you purchase from) after which they fail, the vacuum fills with air and condensation forms in the cavity.
Also handles on high use aluminium windows fail to at a regular interval after the first 10/15 years as the frames fatigue. uPVC fatgiues over 15/20 years due to UV light.
In terms of price uPVC will be the cheapest, then the soft wood followed by aluminium and hardwood being the most expensive.
If you need life cycle costs there's loads of info at The Building Centre on Store Street (London, W1).
sleep envy said:
The seals of the windows are only guaranteed for 20 years (dependent on whom you purchase from) after which they fail, the vacuum fills with air and condensation forms in the cavity.
In this case, what are the options? Replace the whole unit, I am guessing ... ? Or can you just take the "window" bit out and keep the frame? If so, where could I buy a "window" from?
Oli.
sleep envy said:
They'll need more than tightening of the hinges over 10 years. The seals of the windows are only guaranteed for 20 years (dependent on whom you purchase from) after which they fail, the vacuum fills with air and condensation forms in the cavity.
Also handles on high use aluminium windows fail to at a regular interval after the first 10/15 years as the frames fatigue. uPVC fatgiues over 15/20 years due to UV light.
I'm not disputing what you say. You should bear in mind that the vacuum seals of the windows are very much a quality control issue. This could apply equally to any of the window types - presuming they are all to be double glazed.
As to fatigue issues, these can easily be overcome by simple maintenance - like glueing the handles to the frames if need be.
zcacogp said:
The seals of the windows are only guaranteed for 20 years (dependent on whom you purchase from) after which they fail, the vacuum fills with air and condensation forms in the cavity.
In this case, what are the options? Replace the whole unit, I am guessing ... ? Or can you just take the "window" bit out and keep the frame? If so, where could I buy a "window" from?
Oli.
You can take the sealed glazed unit out of the casement and fit a new one. Drying out and resealing works but it's better practice just to bin it as the glass is usually 20 years old so there's greater risk of cracking when forming the vacuum.
Any manufacturer will make a sealed unit to fit a window. Profiles are pretty much universal (as long as you know the glass thickness size) and most windows are bespoke in terms of dimensions.
sleep envy said:Exchanging sealed units is a very quick and straight forward operation. The biggest issue normally is finding someone who will carry out the work for you.
You can take the sealed glazed unit out of the casement and fit a new one. Drying out and resealing works but it's better practice just to bin it as the glass is usually 20 years old so there's greater risk of cracking when forming the vacuum.
Any manufacturer will make a sealed unit to fit a window. Profiles are pretty much universal (as long as you know the glass thickness size) and most windows are bespoke in terms of dimensions.
PhillVR6 said:Well, PVCu wasnt around sixty years ago, and although aluminium was, I dont think it was used for windows much, metal windows from the period were steel, Crittals for example. The company I work for will have records going back 32 years, so I could do some rummaging and come up with comparitive prices for whatever products were available back then.
I've got to do a project comparing the costs of hardwood, softwood, aluminium and upvc windows over a period of 60 years.
Or is that not what you meant?
As far as a future projection is concerned:
Softwood = Dead cheap, but wont go the distance, on new build homes for example, we are ripping them out at three/four years old and they are rotten.
Hardwood = Dead expensive, very long lasting, even if neglected, will probably go sixty years if well maintained and re-treated every 3-4 years.
PVCu = In theory should last sixty years, but only if it is a quality blend, cheap PVCu windows you will be lucky to get ten-fifteen years out of.
Aluminium = No longer meets the requiremnts of DOCL on heat loss unless it is thermally clad with PVCu, which is basically a bodge to get it through the regs. We only supply it for the odd replacement window on a house that is all aluminium and the replacement window needs to match t'others. You wouldnt do a whole house with replacement aluminium windows, not these days. Lifespan is almost indefinate though.
In order of cost:
Softwood
Low quality PVCu
Aluminium
High quality PVCu
Hardwood
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Wednesday 7th December 18:07
Parrot of doom said:In anticipation of your argument (I've been here a while, me), PVCu windows can look fantastic, but only when they are chosen carefully. They also tend to be a lot cheaper than hardwood ones and don't ever need painting.
My hardwood windows are 95 years old and counting......
>> Edited by Frik on Wednesday 7th December 18:09
Balmoral Green said:What about thermally broken aluminium windows? They are still in common use aren't they?
Aluminium = No longer meets the requiremnts of DOCL on heat loss unless it is thermally clad with PVCu, which is basically a bodge to get it through the regs. We only supply it for the odd replacement window on a house that is all aluminium and the replacement window needs to match t'others. You wouldnt do a whole house with replacement aluminium windows, not these days. Lifespan is almost indefinate though.
Thanks fellas, that's more info than I was ever expecting. FYI the project is all about appraisal techniques.
The idea is that I've got to advise an inner city housing association on their options for alternative window specs.
I've got to do this by comparing the whole life/life cycle costs over a period of 60 years. I've then got to couple this with a number of other criteria (which should include environmental)to come to a recommendation.
Thanks again for your help.
The idea is that I've got to advise an inner city housing association on their options for alternative window specs.
I've got to do this by comparing the whole life/life cycle costs over a period of 60 years. I've then got to couple this with a number of other criteria (which should include environmental)to come to a recommendation.
Thanks again for your help.
Balmoral Green said:
Aluminium = No longer meets the requiremnts of DOCL on heat loss unless it is thermally clad with PVCu, which is basically a bodge to get it through the regs. We only supply it for the odd replacement window on a house that is all aluminium and the replacement window needs to match t'others. You wouldnt do a whole house with replacement aluminium windows, not these days. Lifespan is almost indefinate though.
Did a quick google but ... whats DHOL? I'm assuming some sort of building guidelines along the same lines as those that make all new houses have really small windows.
So I'm having a rant. Whoever puts this cr4p together are morons of the first order. Small windows might save some heating energy, but not as much as having to put the lights on 20 minutes eariler *every day of the year* 'cos the rooms dark, you c0cks.
/rant
So I read that according to these regs, the installation of a metal (Not plastic so not oil based) unit, that has an almost indefinate lifespan, but leaks a little heat, is more environmentaly friendly than a POS softwood unit, that might need replacing several times over the lifespan of a single ally unit.
I put it to the fools that make these regs, that the difference in heating fuel I would use is less than the diesel it took to cut down the trees, drag the wood to the sawmill, cut it up, drive it to a port, .........
OK, so I haven't done the maths, but then I'm not issueing legislation. I bet those that are haven't done the maths either, and that what makes me really cross.
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