So, we all seen Autocar and the TVR sales figures this week?
Discussion
DJC said:
400 in a year - that's the lowest I've ever heard..
Except for last yr and hence why the 20% rise in sales volume was mentioned.
Which means the previous year's total was around 335. Most companies would kill for 20% increase in production, but putting that figure in the headline is spin, when starting from such a low baseline.
What 's the revenue breakeven point?
With initial debts to clear, operating loses and plans for major capital investment, NS must have VERY deep pockets.
PS The Evo TSO vs. Sagaris article didn't bode well for TVR.
A British built sportscar with a bomb-proof yank V8 that's got more grunt than TVR's current flagship which is powered by you know what!
CiderwithCerbie said:
PS The Evo TSO vs. Sagaris article didn't bode well for TVR.
A British built sportscar with a bomb-proof yank V8 that's got more grunt than TVR's current flagship which is powered by you know what!
Except for the fact that Marcos still aren't producing customer cars...
There's nothing new here except for some good news....sales are up!
NS knew he was taking on an ailing company.
TVR needed a good injection of capital to bring back the confidence of the crditors and a huge increase in reliability to bring back the confidence of the buyers.
Not surprising really that sales are only up 20% as NS stopped production for 6 months.
Since he has been with TVR they have launched the Sagaris and the Tuscan 2.
The improved build quality in each is noticable....and everyone I speak to with these new cars is a very happy
bunny....no negatives as yet.
There is talk of a new factory, so massive capital investment there and it is obvious that NS wants a European market in the future. I don't think for one minute this will be a little factory tucked away on an industrial estate.
So......looking good.
With regard to the EVO article, I haven't had time yet to wrench it from Ray's grasp,
but he said something about the rev limiter being on in the Sagaris...so hardly suprising it didn't exactly perform as we all know it can.
YP
NS knew he was taking on an ailing company.
TVR needed a good injection of capital to bring back the confidence of the crditors and a huge increase in reliability to bring back the confidence of the buyers.
Not surprising really that sales are only up 20% as NS stopped production for 6 months.
Since he has been with TVR they have launched the Sagaris and the Tuscan 2.
The improved build quality in each is noticable....and everyone I speak to with these new cars is a very happy
bunny....no negatives as yet.
There is talk of a new factory, so massive capital investment there and it is obvious that NS wants a European market in the future. I don't think for one minute this will be a little factory tucked away on an industrial estate.
So......looking good.
With regard to the EVO article, I haven't had time yet to wrench it from Ray's grasp,
but he said something about the rev limiter being on in the Sagaris...so hardly suprising it didn't exactly perform as we all know it can. YP
Sounds to me like the cold weather has played a part. Mine doesn't allow high revs unless the water and oil temps are reading a certain amount.
If it was really cold this would have been kicking in and the car at least 100bhp down on what it should be. That said I haven't read the article yet so I could be talking out of turn. It's not so good for tests but if it helps with reliability then its good for owners.
To the LA's and Cider with Cerbie's of this world why don't you just get a Marcos and leave us in peace. Methinks you'd be happier too. TVR just aren't going to change based on what you say on this forum.
And negativity knows no bounds when you can find fault with a sales increase. Personally I'm surprised the Tuscan 2 hasn't done better as I think it's a cracking car and would appeal to more people than the very focused (and fixed roof) Sagaris.
For reference Lotus struggled to sell 300 Esprits and that was worldwide as they were on sale in the US and the Esprit didn't have a particularly bad reliability record either. If the tuscan convertible is what some people have been waiting for hopefully it will improve things for next year. But clearly TVR have potential to sell many more cars than this and I hope they do so with a bulletproof S6 or at least their own engine and not some lardy yank lump that doesn't rev.
Sadly though S6 phobia seems rife at the moment and the same sheep-like mentality among the chattering types that was behind the Chimera's success is now holding TVR back. What such people fail to realise is that new customers like me (I've had three Lotuses) have actually been drawn to TVR by the S6.
If it was really cold this would have been kicking in and the car at least 100bhp down on what it should be. That said I haven't read the article yet so I could be talking out of turn. It's not so good for tests but if it helps with reliability then its good for owners.
To the LA's and Cider with Cerbie's of this world why don't you just get a Marcos and leave us in peace. Methinks you'd be happier too. TVR just aren't going to change based on what you say on this forum.
And negativity knows no bounds when you can find fault with a sales increase. Personally I'm surprised the Tuscan 2 hasn't done better as I think it's a cracking car and would appeal to more people than the very focused (and fixed roof) Sagaris.
For reference Lotus struggled to sell 300 Esprits and that was worldwide as they were on sale in the US and the Esprit didn't have a particularly bad reliability record either. If the tuscan convertible is what some people have been waiting for hopefully it will improve things for next year. But clearly TVR have potential to sell many more cars than this and I hope they do so with a bulletproof S6 or at least their own engine and not some lardy yank lump that doesn't rev.
Sadly though S6 phobia seems rife at the moment and the same sheep-like mentality among the chattering types that was behind the Chimera's success is now holding TVR back. What such people fail to realise is that new customers like me (I've had three Lotuses) have actually been drawn to TVR by the S6.
No harm in putting a bit of positve spin on sales being up on last year. Everyone trys to reflect the positive. They do it all the time in the real world. 400+ cars isn't too bad - I wonder how that breaks down - 120ish Tuscan II and Convertibles, 230ish Sagaris, 100 T350s, 50 Tamoras would be my guess.
I suspect most of the increase is down to shipping Sagaris and Tuscan Covertible in volume (not sure when the Sagaris customer cars started to be delivered, could have been late last year?).
One thing annoys me - the press (and TVR I assume) harp on about the Sagaris and the Tuscan Convertible as being Smolesky designed cars. As far as I remember, both were 95% designed and finished before Smolensky took over. Of course Smolensky may have made them do more testing to get things sorted under the skin, but both cars are really Wheelr era cars as far as I'm concerned. I wait with baited breath to see the first car designed in the Smolesnky era - for me how the car goes/handles is important, but how it looks interior/exterior are equally important.
To be honest, the looks of a Smolensky car are what worry me the most ... hope he lets the designers get it right.
I suspect most of the increase is down to shipping Sagaris and Tuscan Covertible in volume (not sure when the Sagaris customer cars started to be delivered, could have been late last year?).
One thing annoys me - the press (and TVR I assume) harp on about the Sagaris and the Tuscan Convertible as being Smolesky designed cars. As far as I remember, both were 95% designed and finished before Smolensky took over. Of course Smolensky may have made them do more testing to get things sorted under the skin, but both cars are really Wheelr era cars as far as I'm concerned. I wait with baited breath to see the first car designed in the Smolesnky era - for me how the car goes/handles is important, but how it looks interior/exterior are equally important.
To be honest, the looks of a Smolensky car are what worry me the most ... hope he lets the designers get it right.
the pits said:
To the LA's and Cider with Cerbie's of this world why don't you just get a Marcos and leave us in peace. Methinks you'd be happier too. TVR just aren't going to change based on what you say on this forum.
But you would be so much less entertained if we weren't on here.
Podie said:
Except for the fact that Marcos still aren't producing customer cars...
Good point - but perhaps they are just trying to get it all completely right before they market it, unlike...
TVR, which is now producing two 'new' models both conceived in the PW era. How many more times can they be 'launched' and & press reviewed? If the Sagaris on the TSO Evo comparison wasn't performing properly, who was in charge of giving the car to the journalists?
As for production;
The 2004 figure was 361 which is 9.25 cars/week if the factory was closed for three months and 8.4/week if closed for two months. [It simply was not close for six months]
The 2005 figure is an estimate including this month and with no closures this year equals ....8.4 cars per week....improvement?!? I don't think so.
Hence my reference to Campbellesque spin, YP, you're clearly hired to do the job BS did so..(my lawyer says I can't say anymore).
Podie said:
PS The Evo TSO vs. Sagaris article didn't bode well for TVR.
A British built sportscar with a bomb-proof yank V8 that's got more grunt than TVR's current flagship which is powered by you know what!
Except for the fact that Marcos still aren't producing customer cars...
First customer cars are out in January.
mrmaggit said:
PS The Evo TSO vs. Sagaris article didn't bode well for TVR.
A British built sportscar with a bomb-proof yank V8 that's got more grunt than TVR's current flagship which is powered by you know what!
Except for the fact that Marcos still aren't producing customer cars...
First customer cars are out in January.
I'll believe it when I see it. Whatever happened to the TS250 and TS500...?
Joust owned the first customer TS500 for a while, but nothing tangible has been released from the gates just yet...
targarama said:
No harm in putting a bit of positve spin on sales being up on last year. Everyone trys to reflect the positive.
A good try but I think PH'ers are a bit too smart to buy this spin. As a pure numbers proposition it suggests static or negative growth. Think about the numbers and it's actually worse because....
as targarama said:
I suspect most of the increase is down to shipping Sagaris and Tuscan Covertible in volume (not sure when the Sagaris customer cars started to be delivered, could have been late last year?).
(Sagaris started shipping in March '05) targarama said:
One thing annoys me - the press (and TVR I assume) harp on about the Sagaris and the Tuscan Convertible as being Smolesky designed cars.
Me too. 'Production-engineered' under NS is true and, as a sound-bite, emphasises NS's contribution. Another problem with suggesting the NS regime 'designed' the last PW cars is it will diminish the significance of the REAL 'designed by NS' cars when they come. Sales (sic - deliveries) to date have largely been off a PW order book as well as using PW-era cars!
2006 will be judgement year. We need to be seeing something at the Motor Show and assessing the market reaction to the Tuscan Vert when the summer returns. Also, we'll see how Sagaris sales stand up in the face of the forthcoming Marcos models, the super-Noble and Porsche Gayman.
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