Am I doing something wrong?
Discussion
After nearly three months of ownership, I am in a quadary to whether the purchase was a good decision. I have owned a few high performing vehicles in the past and feel deflated when I drive the Elise.
Indeed the handling is fantastic with good feedback from the road and brakes. However, the car just feels wheezy and unable to rev freely. It does not feel quick at all. It seems that when you have a passenger on board the performance drops even more. For instance I drove it down a winding slip road the other day with a Golf 1.8t in pursuit; I could not shake it off all the way from 15-80 and then he left the Elise behind. I have tried different revs for gear changes, it seems that it runs out of puff at around 5.5k so I now short shift at 5k.
The car has been subjected to a Stainless Lotus Racing Exhaust and K&N Panel Filter, so it should be running at more than standard. But alas, it feels like my wheezy old MG Metro could give it a run for the money!!
Please help me understand the passion for this good looking little car. That is all it seems at the moment, good looking and no go, a bit like my ex-girlfriend.
Indeed the handling is fantastic with good feedback from the road and brakes. However, the car just feels wheezy and unable to rev freely. It does not feel quick at all. It seems that when you have a passenger on board the performance drops even more. For instance I drove it down a winding slip road the other day with a Golf 1.8t in pursuit; I could not shake it off all the way from 15-80 and then he left the Elise behind. I have tried different revs for gear changes, it seems that it runs out of puff at around 5.5k so I now short shift at 5k.
The car has been subjected to a Stainless Lotus Racing Exhaust and K&N Panel Filter, so it should be running at more than standard. But alas, it feels like my wheezy old MG Metro could give it a run for the money!!
Please help me understand the passion for this good looking little car. That is all it seems at the moment, good looking and no go, a bit like my ex-girlfriend.
The lotus is certainly not the ideal car for a drag race - at least above 60-70mph, lack of power and aerodynamics do not help. I had an M3 before the elise. I have no doubt that under 70mph I would be quicker on any road than I was in the M3. I am surprised you lost out in the lower speed range to a Golf - Audi TT's are a joke when we do traffic light GP - we blitz them. At high speeds however, the M3 would rule and even a diesel beemer will probably leave you behind. I never go over 80 odd except on the track, so my car fulfils my needs perfectly. That said, my S2 111s is extremely quick on B roads - and that is what I bought it for. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. I got taken for a spin in my own car by a friend who was an opel works race driver and it was utterly ridiculous how fast he went. I certainly did not want for more speed after that.
Is your engine making the power it should? Most power graphs indicate it should not need a short shift at 5000 rpm even on a boggo standard engine.
>> Edited by shangani on Monday 5th December 16:18
Is your engine making the power it should? Most power graphs indicate it should not need a short shift at 5000 rpm even on a boggo standard engine.
>> Edited by shangani on Monday 5th December 16:18
I've not driven a 118bhp S1 but have driven an S2 118bhp with the upgrade to 135bhp and thought it was very quick up to 80mph - easily quick enough to leave most Golf types behind. I have to admit that I spent all of the drive on B roads so wouldn't really know what it's like > 80mph.
Depends on what you think is quick - I notice your other mode of transport is a bike!
My 111R is a 'quick' car but doesn't exactly throw me back in the seat but add some twisty roads into the equation and it's seriously FAST as an overall package.
Depends on what you think is quick - I notice your other mode of transport is a bike!
My 111R is a 'quick' car but doesn't exactly throw me back in the seat but add some twisty roads into the equation and it's seriously FAST as an overall package.
Have a look here:
Click me for graph
The power and torque curves are fairly typical of what a standard K-series engine in engine in the Elise does.
Of course there is a possibility that there is something wrong with your car ?
>> Edited by StuartB on Monday 5th December 16:24
Click me for graph
The power and torque curves are fairly typical of what a standard K-series engine in engine in the Elise does.
Of course there is a possibility that there is something wrong with your car ?
>> Edited by StuartB on Monday 5th December 16:24
Graph shows peak power at 5500 and very little falloff at 6000. Shortchanging at 5000 puts you at peak torque, but with more power to come. I would just make sure all is well with the breathing of the engine - good compression on all cylinders and cat etc still ok. You have already done the exhaust and filter.
That said, if you are used to bikes....
That said, if you are used to bikes....
On a cirquit they are great fun, but on straigter roads you need at least a honda/audi/duratec conversion(more then 220ps) to get some spirit from 80mph...
I live in the Netherlands and most of the roads where I drive are straights, so thats why I need when I buy an Elise at least 240ps! but I like more around 300 ofcorse when money alouds...
I testdrove in 1997? a 120ps elise, great fun to 60 but after that not as fast as the cars I drove at that moment(nissan sunny GTI-R 280ps) so no way I buy that.
A year or 2 later I testdrove the 160ps version...a bit better but also not fast anough after 60( I drove a bmw compact with 320ps M3 version engine at that moment
)
The a year after that I test drove the 215ps compressor version,(I drove a TVR Griffith at that moment) and that brought a grin on my face, see here
This year I testdrove a new 111R version, and I loved it!(still driving a bmw Z3 M coupe S54 tuned) I thought, wow it feels like I could use it every day, and a nice power to start with and put a supercharger on it as fast as I can pay one...
And I like a hardtop on them, because most of the time the wether is not that fine, and I take the car also with me when I go out and every where else I go
Have fun, and try some different power models...thats what you are looking for I guess...
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 16:38
I live in the Netherlands and most of the roads where I drive are straights, so thats why I need when I buy an Elise at least 240ps! but I like more around 300 ofcorse when money alouds...
I testdrove in 1997? a 120ps elise, great fun to 60 but after that not as fast as the cars I drove at that moment(nissan sunny GTI-R 280ps) so no way I buy that.
A year or 2 later I testdrove the 160ps version...a bit better but also not fast anough after 60( I drove a bmw compact with 320ps M3 version engine at that moment
) The a year after that I test drove the 215ps compressor version,(I drove a TVR Griffith at that moment) and that brought a grin on my face, see here
This year I testdrove a new 111R version, and I loved it!(still driving a bmw Z3 M coupe S54 tuned) I thought, wow it feels like I could use it every day, and a nice power to start with and put a supercharger on it as fast as I can pay one...
And I like a hardtop on them, because most of the time the wether is not that fine, and I take the car also with me when I go out and every where else I go
Have fun, and try some different power models...thats what you are looking for I guess...
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 16:38
I have absorbed what you are saying. In reply to most of the above mentioned, I have been driving mostly A and B roads. It gives a perceived feeling of speed when flooring it; to which I have put down to being so low down (Go-kart effect). It is when comparing it to other vehicles of lesser intent that is when the frustration starts.
Ok, round twisties, in the dry, I am sure the Elise will make light work of Golf's etc. The last time I saw a dry road was in October. So for now, I have saved spirited driving for straight line opportunities. This is where I have become disappointed.
You may be right, there may be a problem with the car. It only has 40k on the clock and has recently had it's C service with new cambelt. I have just replaced all the engine electrics (rotor arm, dizzy, leads and sparks). No sign of HGF. Would replacing the CAT with a straight through pipe make any difference?
As for the bike thing, there isn't a car sub £100k out there that would get near that so I am aware of this when gauging the Elise's performance. I just expect more for my money.
Ok, round twisties, in the dry, I am sure the Elise will make light work of Golf's etc. The last time I saw a dry road was in October. So for now, I have saved spirited driving for straight line opportunities. This is where I have become disappointed.
You may be right, there may be a problem with the car. It only has 40k on the clock and has recently had it's C service with new cambelt. I have just replaced all the engine electrics (rotor arm, dizzy, leads and sparks). No sign of HGF. Would replacing the CAT with a straight through pipe make any difference?
As for the bike thing, there isn't a car sub £100k out there that would get near that so I am aware of this when gauging the Elise's performance. I just expect more for my money.
Sounds like you have checked the engine - CRP doesn't exactly liberate the sort of performance gains you want + needs to be taken off before every MOT. Passenger weight is an issue with any really light car - especially noticeable in caterhams and elises.
Maybe you should go and test a few other elises to see if they are any different - infinitely cheaper than making initial changes. If they are still not giving the performance you want and you like the car / handling etc otherwise, then perhaps an audi / duratec / honda conversion might be the ticket. Bang for buck, the audi will put you in supercar performance league.
Maybe you should go and test a few other elises to see if they are any different - infinitely cheaper than making initial changes. If they are still not giving the performance you want and you like the car / handling etc otherwise, then perhaps an audi / duratec / honda conversion might be the ticket. Bang for buck, the audi will put you in supercar performance league.
veetwin said:
Ok, round twisties, in the dry, I am sure the Elise will make light work of Golf's etc. The last time I saw a dry road was in October. So for now, I have saved spirited driving for straight line opportunities. This is where I have become disappointed.
.
The 'liz is the wrong car for you. If it is straight line speed, then I suggest you try another car. TVR will give you that straight line "buzz".
I've had my S1 for about 2 months now, and love it - it's quick enough on the roads I drive, and gives spirited acceleration from 80 - 100 in top when on the motorway... As far as i know it standard bar an exhaust.
In the course of buying mine I drove about 5, and have to say that to me performance varied. The first that I drove was a 32,000 miler, and felt like it couldn't pull the skin of rice pudding - I then drove a barage of others which were much of a muchness, and better.
The one i bought had 22k on it but had had the C-service done to sell... For me she's great but after wanting one for so long the first car left my so dissapointed.
I've been exposed to many many fast cars through my work, spend a lot of time driving Radicals and the elise doesn't feel slow - for the road it's about right?
In the course of buying mine I drove about 5, and have to say that to me performance varied. The first that I drove was a 32,000 miler, and felt like it couldn't pull the skin of rice pudding - I then drove a barage of others which were much of a muchness, and better.
The one i bought had 22k on it but had had the C-service done to sell... For me she's great but after wanting one for so long the first car left my so dissapointed.
I've been exposed to many many fast cars through my work, spend a lot of time driving Radicals and the elise doesn't feel slow - for the road it's about right?
So, if you realy like the elise, but you use it also a lot on straights put a highpower engine in it...
Otherwise if you have more money to spend buy a Ultima GTR, I now I would, but unfortunally there no Ultima GTR's to buy in the Netherlands...and if there was they would be much to expensive due high BPM tax!
So considder yourself lucky that you life in carheaven with very nice cars and nice roads and a lot of tracks! we don't have that many...sadly.
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 19:01
Otherwise if you have more money to spend buy a Ultima GTR, I now I would, but unfortunally there no Ultima GTR's to buy in the Netherlands...and if there was they would be much to expensive due high BPM tax!
So considder yourself lucky that you life in carheaven with very nice cars and nice roads and a lot of tracks! we don't have that many...sadly.
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 19:01
Hi,
I know sort of how you feel as i changed from a TVR Tuscan RR which was awsome but really was not one of lifes well behaved cars in the twisties. Once i changed i did miss the sheer grunt but beleive me once you learn how to push the Elise it is more fun. For the record I have a 111S, de-cat, sports exhaust, induction, Nitrons, wider wheels & A048's & 4 points. Recently had a guy on an R1 give me the finger when i hauled up behind him going down the "rest & be thankful" in Argyll he was pushing pretty hard but was somewhat concerned to find i was right up his arse once i caught up from the initial acceleration deficit. Also had similar with guys hauling up behind me on other great little scottish roads, basically they have no chance except if traffic holds you up, if it is very twisty (which is what we bought them for)these cars if well set up can be pretty special. Oh and before you slag me as a "4 wheeler" I just sold my RS250. Its all about taste, but find the right roads before you give up.
Oh and you dont need to drive like a pussy just cos its wet, but respect is required.
I know sort of how you feel as i changed from a TVR Tuscan RR which was awsome but really was not one of lifes well behaved cars in the twisties. Once i changed i did miss the sheer grunt but beleive me once you learn how to push the Elise it is more fun. For the record I have a 111S, de-cat, sports exhaust, induction, Nitrons, wider wheels & A048's & 4 points. Recently had a guy on an R1 give me the finger when i hauled up behind him going down the "rest & be thankful" in Argyll he was pushing pretty hard but was somewhat concerned to find i was right up his arse once i caught up from the initial acceleration deficit. Also had similar with guys hauling up behind me on other great little scottish roads, basically they have no chance except if traffic holds you up, if it is very twisty (which is what we bought them for)these cars if well set up can be pretty special. Oh and before you slag me as a "4 wheeler" I just sold my RS250. Its all about taste, but find the right roads before you give up.
Oh and you dont need to drive like a pussy just cos its wet, but respect is required.
you can put as many bolt ons on it as you like but wont seem more than 135bhp ish. With a modded head/cams 160bhp ish. This is where the Elise starts to feel quick in a straight line. 190-200bhp is where its genuinely fast and 200bhp up in an S1 is getting on for supercar quick. I came from bikes too, so have that urge for straight line speed as well as the awesome handling so ended up going through lots of engine upgrades and conversions over the last 4 years 
Heres a very rough guide to power, 0-100 times and cost so you can see whats its going to cost you to get what you want - 0-100 times listed as 0-60 is governed by traction once you get 160-80bhp + and these are for S1/S2 ..sub 800Kg Elises !:
std 120bhp - 0-100 in 18 secs ish
160bhp - 0-100 in 14secs - about £2K
200bhp 0-100 in 11.5ish - about £4.5K
220bhp Honda or Duratec - 0-100 in 10.5secs - £7-10K
220-240bhp K series upgrade 0-100 in 9.5-10secs £6-8K
250bhp Audi engine - £7.5K 0-100 in 9secs
300bhp SC Honda - 0-100 in 8.5 secs £13.5K
330bhp Audi 0-100 in 8secs ish £11.5K
have a look here for a guide to tuning the K series www.dvapower.co.uk
Heres a very rough guide to power, 0-100 times and cost so you can see whats its going to cost you to get what you want - 0-100 times listed as 0-60 is governed by traction once you get 160-80bhp + and these are for S1/S2 ..sub 800Kg Elises !:
std 120bhp - 0-100 in 18 secs ish
160bhp - 0-100 in 14secs - about £2K
200bhp 0-100 in 11.5ish - about £4.5K
220bhp Honda or Duratec - 0-100 in 10.5secs - £7-10K
220-240bhp K series upgrade 0-100 in 9.5-10secs £6-8K
250bhp Audi engine - £7.5K 0-100 in 9secs
300bhp SC Honda - 0-100 in 8.5 secs £13.5K
330bhp Audi 0-100 in 8secs ish £11.5K
have a look here for a guide to tuning the K series www.dvapower.co.uk
Nice list Bogie...clear.
and when you've got money left you can go the leightweight route(better power to weight)...change origgenal (body)parts for carbon parts...and leightweight exhaust and wheels and so on...
and ofcorse when you have too, take only leightweight girlfriends in the car and maybe loose some weight yourself
found this one too when you have a 111R its called the 280RR nice name gives the 111R 280ps and that for 7.500,-$ or 4.222,-gbp! sounds like a good deal?!
www.ragnorakracing.com/catalog/item/2337807/1782090.htm#image_1
This packages uses the high performance Whipple Twin Screw 1200 blower with bypass valve! and lots more.
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 22:19
and when you've got money left you can go the leightweight route(better power to weight)...change origgenal (body)parts for carbon parts...and leightweight exhaust and wheels and so on...
and ofcorse when you have too, take only leightweight girlfriends in the car and maybe loose some weight yourself
found this one too when you have a 111R its called the 280RR nice name
gives the 111R 280ps and that for 7.500,-$ or 4.222,-gbp! sounds like a good deal?! www.ragnorakracing.com/catalog/item/2337807/1782090.htm#image_1
This packages uses the high performance Whipple Twin Screw 1200 blower with bypass valve! and lots more.
GTRene
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 5th December 22:19
...or you could sell yours and buy yourself a nice Sport 160S which revs like a mad thing to 7k, comes on cam at 4k and pulls like b*ggery from 70/80mph to numbers which will get you very nicked if you're stupid enough to do them.
Basically you've done what many of us have done, got used to the 118bhp standard car in a straight line and feeling like it's no good. Don't fret, just enjoy how superb it is on the twisties, thank your stars you won't get done for going silly miles an hour on the motorway (80 is fine) and then do some trackdays in it, where a well driven standard car will be huge fun.
So what if a Golf was quicker down a slip road, you're in a Lotus
Basically you've done what many of us have done, got used to the 118bhp standard car in a straight line and feeling like it's no good. Don't fret, just enjoy how superb it is on the twisties, thank your stars you won't get done for going silly miles an hour on the motorway (80 is fine) and then do some trackdays in it, where a well driven standard car will be huge fun.
So what if a Golf was quicker down a slip road, you're in a Lotus
S Works said:
...or you could sell yours and buy yourself a nice Sport 160S which revs like a mad thing to 7k, comes on cam at 4k and pulls like b*ggery from 70/80mph to numbers which will get you very nicked if you're stupid enough to do them.
Basically you've done what many of us have done, got used to the 118bhp standard car in a straight line and feeling like it's no good. Don't fret, just enjoy how superb it is on the twisties, thank your stars you won't get done for going silly miles an hour on the motorway (80 is fine) and then do some trackdays in it, where a well driven standard car will be huge fun.
So what if a Golf was quicker down a slip road, you're in a Lotus
That about sums it up
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