Sixty effing Eight!!!!

[TeamD]

More cr@p

I especially like this bit...

The BBC said:

Under the national pensions scheme, individuals would contribute 4% of their post-tax earnings, their company an additional 3% and the government 1% through tax relief or credit.

So let me get this straight...They want us to pay for our pension out of our taxed (net) income so that they can tax us on it again when (if) we start to draw that pension? And does this effectively now mean that NI payments have absolutely nothing to do with our state pension provision from both an employee and employer POV?

So let me see, I have one employee (me), I pay myself X and am obliged to pay employees NI on this, as my employer I also have to pay Employers NI on top of what I award myself in gross pay and now I will have to apportion another 3% extra, bearing in mind that I've now had a 4% decrease in my net salary. WTF.

[Jaglover]

At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory.

If it does become so I think we will all have grounds for complaint.

[BossCerbera]

Time to leave GB methinks.

[james_j]

Jaglover said:

At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory. If it does become so I think we will all have grounds for complaint.

Making something which is unpalatable voluntary first then compulsory later is a standard stealth tactic. Cynical? Perhaps.

[targarama]

We're all living around 10 years longer on average than 50 years ago, I do not object to raising the state pension age to 67-68. Whenever it happens its going to pi55 people off though.

People should still be able to choose to retire at 60 and take their personal pensions though.

[L81]

Well somebody has to finance MPs salary, expense claims & pensions. It's only fair after they've dedicated their working lives to looking after us proles, forgoing any chance of a career in industry, company directorships, etc. They should be recompensed for the money they could have made if they'd devoted their superior skills to working in the private sector.

[Jaglover]

james_j said:

Jaglover said: At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory. If it does become so I think we will all have grounds for complaint. Making something which is unpalatable voluntary first then compulsory later is a standard stealth tactic. Cynical? Perhaps.

Indeed

As the basic state pension declines to become little more than a luncheon voucher I think we are right to be very cynical.

What will be next?; there is a proposal for SERPS to be replaced by a 'citizens' pension, further removing the link between what you put in and what you get out.

If this system does become compulsory how long until tax relief on pension saving is removed?

[Jaglover]

targarama said:

We're all living around 10 years longer on average than 50 years ago, I do not object to raising the state pension age to 67-68. Whenever it happens its going to pi55 people off though.

I support that too, retirement ages should be raised in line with life expectancy.

[TeamD]

Jaglover said:

At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory.

The thing is that the other proposals such as...

* future entitlement to the basic state pension should become universal and be based on residency and not on contributions
Great, no need to pay NI then.

* the basic state pension should become indexed to earnings
How can they afford this if they can't afford it at present?

* the current state second pension should evolve into a flat-rate payment
What's this?

[BliarOut]

So, we no longer get dentists, the NHS is a huge money swallowing pit and now no state pension. Isn't it about time to scrap NI totally and allow us to use the money better for our own healthcare? The government certainly seem incapable of doing it any more

[Jaglover]

TeamD said:

Jaglover said: At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory. The thing is that the other proposals such as... * future entitlement to the basic state pension should become universal and be based on residency and not on contributions Great, no need to pay NI then. * the basic state pension should become indexed to earnings How can they afford this if they can't afford it at present? * the current state second pension should evolve into a flat-rate payment What's this?

All three of these proposals have the same common theme an abandonment of linking your pension to what you put in.

Someone could bring their aged mother in from India and she would have the same pension entitlement as someone who had worked here all their lives and been contributing to SERPS.

We can see that it is wrong in principle, however with the pensioner tax credit those who haven't bothered saving for their retirement receive this level of income anyway, resulting in a massive disincentive to save. So much of the thrust of the proposals is giving everyone enough to live on from the state and if you want more you have to save throughout your lifetime.

[TeamD]

BliarOut said:

The government certainly seem incapable of doing it any more

Never was in the first place.

[tinman0]

Jaglover said:

At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory. If it does become so I think we will all have grounds for complaint.

it was 69 in the mail this morning.

i think this is a softening up tactic. the govt announces 67 and everyone bitches. the report says 69 so everyone settles with 67 as a compromise.

[shaw-cross shark]

Not forgetting the fact that what they are basically saying is that they tax us more than ever before (IMO) and yet have no money to finance us in our retirement when that comes.

Something to do with the fact that they give all our money away to chavs and f**king foreigners who shouldn't be entitled to it.

I work 2 jobs to support my family and still don't have any money. What do they expect me to save? I haven't had a holiday in 4 years, drive a 5yo car and live in an ex council house and I'm still skint. Prices go up every year and yet wages don't rise to cover inflation.

It's a ing joke. I don't think our grandparents fought for this country to become what it has. I struggle to comprehend how the "working classes" were gullible enough to vote this bunch of incompetent wits back into power

Sorry, my mistake. It's the non working classes who vote them in. The ones I stand behind in the post office and watch getting £400 of our money. The ones who don't even speak the ing language of the country they live in.

I'm from a working class background and never thought I would vote anything other than Labour. I didn't last time and neither did my dad, but there again we are the fools paying for the work shy "underclass" to enjoy their lavish lifestyles, while the working minority whose votes no longer count are forced to break their backs to fund them.

Can anyone guess that I'm a little annoyed?

[Jaglover]

tinman0 said:

Jaglover said: At present it is not proposed that it should be compulsory. If it does become so I think we will all have grounds for complaint. it was 69 in the mail this morning. i think this is a softening up tactic. the govt announces 67 and everyone bitches. the report says 69 so everyone settles with 67 as a compromise.

The report has been released and it recommends gradually raising the retirement age to 68 by 2050.

[puggit]

Meanwhile the public sector gravyboat passengers get to retire at 60 - after years misspending our money, they go and retire early, on our money

[chris watton]

shaw-cross shark said:

What a lot of hard working and non-scrounging people feel like saying

Agree with what you say.

Why can't this shower be honest and tell us we are paying for others with our NI, and it has nothing to do with OUR future.
They should be honest and tell us what it's used for, or scrap it and explain that there is not enough money for us to have through our contributions when we retire, so prepare our own pensions.

[Jaglover]

puggit said:

Meanwhile the public sector gravyboat passengers get to retire at 60 - after years misspending our money, they go and retire early, on our money

That is totally unjustifiable, but then what else did you expect from Labour?.

[BossCerbera]

BliarOut said:

So, we no longer get dentists, the NHS is a huge money swallowing pit and now no state pension. Isn't it about time to scrap NI totally and allow us to use the money better for our own healthcare? The government certainly seem incapable of doing it any more

The State is spectacularly failing to provide anything of use or value. The welfare state is a grossly mis-managed charity to which donations are compulsory for the GDP-earning minority.

The GDP-earning middle-class should go on strike and cut off the money supply to the grotesque government gravy train. I favour a return to personal fiefdoms. I feel half way there anyway with private health, private landscaping, private security, private refuse collection etc etc etc.. Add to that voluntary and sometimes direct donations to those in need. I could make the 'missing 40%' do a lot more good than the numpties a Whitehall ever could.

WTF is the point/value of sending over 40% of a gross income to a load of w@nkers who give my money to sustain chav scum - the very people that expensive security and alarm systems are designed to repel? That the GDP-earning populace is a minority is the real problem - too few people 'funding disadvantage'. To fund disadvantage is to promote disadvantage.

The solution to the pension fluck-up is to have more GDP-earners contributing to the pot, not to penalise those of us who have knocked our pipe out contributing to the State only to see our money used to expand a social disgrace and then see OUR pensions delayed and reduced.

It's far too difficult a problem for half-wit career politicians to ever solve. Bring on the revolution.

[ian d]

if you feel like me, THE WELFARE STATE and all the wastefulness of the state systems need to be set upon with a very sharp financial pruning knife.

taxation in this country is way too high and most of it gets wasted.

as to working until 67, 68 or 70, no chance. i'm taking responsibility MYSELF to stop at 60, definately by 65. i suggest you take your own measures. the state are basically useless.