Blair is going to sell us up the EU river!
Discussion
Blair is going to cave in the pathetic twerp – he’s going to sell us out! He is now realising that he has no hope of getting the French to renegotiate on the EU agricultural subsidies, capping the CAP if you like, the issue that he linked firmly to the reduction the UK rebate. He is so desperate to propose a budget that will be acceptable that he is willing to give up the rebate (or part of it) if less reconstruction money goes to the poorer, new entrants into the EU. WTF?!?
This seems completely arse about face to me. The current EU budget could work if the rich countries put money in and then didn’t fight to claw it all back again, like a load of squabbling kids. What are the chances of the British people being given a vote on this kind of issue? It’s supposed to be a democracy for god’s sake, yet Blair always seems to be working to his own personal agenda!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4477530.stm
This seems completely arse about face to me. The current EU budget could work if the rich countries put money in and then didn’t fight to claw it all back again, like a load of squabbling kids. What are the chances of the British people being given a vote on this kind of issue? It’s supposed to be a democracy for god’s sake, yet Blair always seems to be working to his own personal agenda!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4477530.stm
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Hey - I never voted for the git even if I did consider the Tories to be lost in space. It ain't my fault guv'nor!
Perhaps you shuold have voted to keep the ct out...
Where does he say he didn't vote? All he said was he didn't vote Blair and the Tories were lost in space. Doesn't mean he didn't vote Tory or some other party.
t1grm said:
Hey - I never voted for the git even if I did consider the Tories to be lost in space. It ain't my fault guv'nor!
Perhaps you shuold have voted to keep the c
Where does he say he didn't vote? All he said was he didn't vote Blair and the Tories were lost in space. Doesn't mean he didn't vote Tory or some other party.
Quite right - I did vote Tory at the election when Labour got in, despite misgivings about Major, sleaze and all the rest. Can't help myself, I'm a capitalist and, even if the left got in by stealing the middle ground, it was obvious that they would then swing back to the socialist left.
Anyway, this is all by the by. How can we force our git of a PM to consult with us before getting down on his knees and sucking EU c**k? Goddamn it, at least Maggie had balls.
nel said:
Hey - I never voted for the git even if I did consider the Tories to be lost in space. It ain't my fault guv'nor!
Perhaps you shuold have voted to keep the c
Where does he say he didn't vote? All he said was he didn't vote Blair and the Tories were lost in space. Doesn't mean he didn't vote Tory or some other party.
Quite right - I did vote Tory at the election when Labour got in, despite misgivings about Major, sleaze and all the rest. Can't help myself, I'm a capitalist and, even if the left got in by stealing the middle ground, it was obvious that they would then swing back to the socialist left.
Anyway, this is all by the by. How can we force our git of a PM to consult with us before getting down on his knees and sucking EU c**k? Goddamn it, at least Maggie had balls.
"I did consider the Tories lost in space"
"Quite right i did vote Tories"
"I`m a capitalist"
"At least Maggie had balls"
Yes and we had 15% interest rates and over 3 million unemployed.
Oh the good old days.
bmw114 said:
who was quoting me:
"I did consider the Tories lost in space"
"Quite right i did vote Tories"
"I`m a capitalist"
"At least Maggie had balls"
Yes and we had 15% interest rates and over 3 million unemployed.
Oh the good old days.
Yeak OK, we had 15% interest rates for a couple of hours because of a crap reaction to speculators on the EMU. As for the unemployed, the UK had been taking bitter medecine to break the unions and try and get the country in some kind of state for the future, hence reams of unemployed. Ironically the Left inherited the benefit of the Tories lancing the boil, only to make it swing too far the other way (in my opinion).
If only the Tories hadn't cut back quite so brutally on public services over the years and rushed through a botched rail privatisation just before they were kicked out, the silly plonkers. Anyway, this is history - no-one said it was necessarily all rosey!
Where will your call for a vote end? You correctly state that we live in a democracy - and our democratically elected govt then goes & makes decisions.
If we wanted a vote on every issue we'd get nothing done - its just not practical.
i'm not saying, btw, that Blair is God or anything, but once the govt. is in, they've got to be left to govern until the next election comes around. Then the electorate decide...
If we wanted a vote on every issue we'd get nothing done - its just not practical.
i'm not saying, btw, that Blair is God or anything, but once the govt. is in, they've got to be left to govern until the next election comes around. Then the electorate decide...
johnfm said:
Where will your call for a vote end? You correctly state that we live in a democracy - and our democratically elected govt then goes & makes decisions.
If we wanted a vote on every issue we'd get nothing done - its just not practical.
i'm not saying, btw, that Blair is God or anything, but once the govt. is in, they've got to be left to govern until the next election comes around. Then the electorate decide...
totally agree, the unfortunate bit is that most of the electorate don't know what they're voting for (I'm not sure I fully understand). There are however some issues when I believe the british public should be asked, this is probably one of them. A few years ago the beeb did some programmes on Europe, foxhunting etc with arguments from both sides that allowed those were interested to get a better understanding of the debates. The foxhunting stats showed that people were generally anti-fox hunting before the programme but were then swayed. Worrying it was still banned by a loada people who had a chip on their shoulders
nel said:
who was quoting me:
"I did consider the Tories lost in space"
"Quite right i did vote Tories"
"I`m a capitalist"
"At least Maggie had balls"
Yes and we had 15% interest rates and over 3 million unemployed.
Oh the good old days.
Yeak OK, we had 15% interest rates for a couple of hours because of a crap reaction to speculators on the EMU. As for the unemployed, the UK had been taking bitter medecine to break the unions and try and get the country in some kind of state for the future, hence reams of unemployed. Ironically the Left inherited the benefit of the Tories lancing the boil, only to make it swing too far the other way (in my opinion).
If only the Tories hadn't cut back quite so brutally on public services over the years and rushed through a botched rail privatisation just before they were kicked out, the silly plonkers. Anyway, this is history - no-one said it was necessarily all rosey!
Everybody has the right to vote for whoever they want, and you did just that but what does Tony have to do to get your vote.
I`m not a socialist but i`m nearer to a socialist than a capitalist.
This is only my opinion but capitalists vote for what is best for them were as socialists vote for whats best for the majority.
High interest rates are bad for big buisness which in turn leads to a slump, people stop spending and buisness then gets even worse.
Still what the hell do i know.
A word in your favour,Tories had 3 million unemployed, my mate Tony got in and now we have absolutly anybody coming to this country to work.
I work for DHL and we have loads, and i mean loads of non english speaking people working on the shop floor so my chances of getting a good pay rise are nil.
Like i said before i`m closer to a socialist than a capilatist and cheap labour is better for the country so i have to grin and bare it.
Can`t bloody win can you.
johnfm said:
If we wanted a vote on every issue we'd get nothing done - its just not practical.
Unfortunately you're right - the size of the British population and the degree of political apathy probably preclude the use of regular national referendums as a democratic tool. It's a pity really as smaller countries therefore end up being, in principle at least, more democratic.
The Swiss for instance use frequent referendums to decide on national issues and it must (I'm guessing here) make the general public feel more involved in the political process. In Britain, as in most countries, we vote in a party on the basis of what they say they'll do and they then seem to consider that they have a 4 year carte blanche to do what thier party wants, even if it relates to a topic not touched upon in their election promises.
The British have not really had a voice on the EU since the vote on the common market in '72 I think. Since then the whole process has gone much further, and was en route for a Federality of Europe until they screwed up with the constitution thank god. Note however that, some breast-beating apart, has the "no" vote radically changed things for the Brussels eurocrats? I think they're continuing as before, just keeping it a bit quieter now!
No, Tony knows that he can't afford a vote on Europe so was delighted when the constitution was kiboshed. Yet he is already willing to turn his back on what he said 4 months ago concerning the rebate, drop it as a weapon to bludgeon some order in the budget, and try to play "Mr Harmonious". W****r!
bmw114 said:
This is only my opinion but capitalists vote for what is best for them were as socialists vote for whats best for the majority.
Don't make me laugh, Socialists vote for whatever scr*ws anyone doing better than themselves. They're only happy in their sad little lives when those who have made a go of it in life have their money confiscated by the state.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Tuesday 29th November 20:34
nel said:
Unfortunately you're right - the size of the British population and the degree of political apathy probably preclude the use of regular national referendums as a democratic tool. It's a pity really as smaller countries therefore end up being, in principle at least, more democratic.
The Swiss for instance use frequent referendums to decide on national issues and it must (I'm guessing here) make the general public feel more involved in the political process. In Britain, as in most countries, we vote in a party on the basis of what they say they'll do and they then seem to consider that they have a 4 year carte blanche to do what thier party wants, even if it relates to a topic not touched upon in their election promises.
California is a similar size and they have regular referendums.
But they may not be appropriate for our political culture.
I think to reengage the voters with politics we need far more powerful local democratic institutions.
Jaglover said:
This is only my opinion but capitalists vote for what is best for them were as socialists vote for whats best for the majority.
Don't make me laugh, Socialists vote for whatever scr*ws anyone doing better than themselves. They're only happy in their sad little lives when those who have made a go of it in life have their money confiscating by the state.
For christ sake put another record on.
Let the rant begin.
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