Discussion
Just got back from hospital. Last weekend I did myself a bit of a mischief - stuck my foot in a hole when out with the dogs and went down a bit awkwardly. Went off to the local hospital 36 hours later and was diagnosed as having torn ankle ligaments. Clapped in plaster and told to come back today.
This morning - 10.00am appointment. Didn't see anybody until after 12.00, then they couldn't find my records, then they couldn't find the X-rays from last week. New X-rays were then taken and an hour later I finally got to see a consultant who let me know that I have actually got a broken leg
. No wonder it has been smarting a bit for the last week...
I know that our health service is a marvellous thing that we should all be very grateful for, but I'm afraid this just seems to me to be third-world medical "care".
Anybody know the phone number for Claims Direct?!!
This morning - 10.00am appointment. Didn't see anybody until after 12.00, then they couldn't find my records, then they couldn't find the X-rays from last week. New X-rays were then taken and an hour later I finally got to see a consultant who let me know that I have actually got a broken leg
. No wonder it has been smarting a bit for the last week... I know that our health service is a marvellous thing that we should all be very grateful for, but I'm afraid this just seems to me to be third-world medical "care".
Anybody know the phone number for Claims Direct?!!
I have an aversion to NHS GP's, haven't seen one in 6-7 years, not since my "doctor" confused hypochondria with an imminently life threatening neurological illness 
The resulting 6 months of hospitalisation was filled with a comedy of errors too.
I often wonder if socialism promotes mediocrity.
>> Edited by scorp on Monday 21st November 17:12
The resulting 6 months of hospitalisation was filled with a comedy of errors too. I often wonder if socialism promotes mediocrity.
>> Edited by scorp on Monday 21st November 17:12
sorry to hear about your troubles old chap.
It seems your story nicely encapsulates some of the difficulties faced by the NHS.
Firstly, it seems you were provided with the wrong diagnosis. It's difficult to be too critical, as without seeing the xray, it isn't always obvious to diagnose a fracture, sometimes soft tissue swelling can obscure the fracture line, but then again, given how doctors training has suffered in the past 5 years, I wouldn't be surprised if you were seen by an inexperienced casualty doctor, who couldn't accurately diagnose.
Then, you were kept waiting for 2 hours, probably because the clinic was overbooked, and understaffed. Then they lost your notes, managerial incompetance, and clerical incompetance.
Funny thing is, all these problems have been raised time and again, by the professional bodies, to be ignored by successive governments.
It seems your story nicely encapsulates some of the difficulties faced by the NHS.
Firstly, it seems you were provided with the wrong diagnosis. It's difficult to be too critical, as without seeing the xray, it isn't always obvious to diagnose a fracture, sometimes soft tissue swelling can obscure the fracture line, but then again, given how doctors training has suffered in the past 5 years, I wouldn't be surprised if you were seen by an inexperienced casualty doctor, who couldn't accurately diagnose.
Then, you were kept waiting for 2 hours, probably because the clinic was overbooked, and understaffed. Then they lost your notes, managerial incompetance, and clerical incompetance.
Funny thing is, all these problems have been raised time and again, by the professional bodies, to be ignored by successive governments.
Come on... It's not really like the third-world is it?
I fell off my bike, and really hurt my ankle. Got the doc over, he said it was just a sprain, and it would get better soon. Two weeks of hell later, I was still in quite a lot of pain. So went back to the doctors.
He was surprised it was still so swelled up, so sent me for an x-ray. It turned out I had fractured my ankle, and the swelling which was stopping it moving was actually the bone sticking out under the skin! They had to re-break it, and set it straight. Then I had six weeks in a cast. Was still in cast on my 17th bday, couldn’t drive 'till 4 weeks after my 17th!
I now have two pins in my left ankle, and a nice scar!
Funny to think that's exactly four years ago! (I'm 21 day after tomorrow)
I fell off my bike, and really hurt my ankle. Got the doc over, he said it was just a sprain, and it would get better soon. Two weeks of hell later, I was still in quite a lot of pain. So went back to the doctors.
He was surprised it was still so swelled up, so sent me for an x-ray. It turned out I had fractured my ankle, and the swelling which was stopping it moving was actually the bone sticking out under the skin! They had to re-break it, and set it straight. Then I had six weeks in a cast. Was still in cast on my 17th bday, couldn’t drive 'till 4 weeks after my 17th!
I now have two pins in my left ankle, and a nice scar!
Funny to think that's exactly four years ago! (I'm 21 day after tomorrow)
Interesting comments above. I was rushed in last Monday for only 24 hours. I've never spent a night in hospital before although I've had several trips to A&E depts in both this country and some in Europe. I honestly couldn't think of any faults with the care or service I've received, especially last Monday when I was in bloody agony. Granted, it was a small-ish hospital but I'm sure they have their own share of problems compared to the behemoth-like James Cooks of this world.
They do a fantastic job IMO.
They do a fantastic job IMO.
Jaglover said:
Your experience is all too typical MonAmi.
As we study the gulf in the quality of health care between us and many of our European neighbours we can no longer put the blame in under-funding.
We can see that the problem is the over-centralised monster that is the NHS.
The consultant was quite amusing - he reminded me of Sir Lancelot in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, apologising for accidentally cutting the bride's head off. Broken leg eh? Erm...sorry...
just wondering who made the diagnosis.??
I remember being a dental student with
all experience having to look after the minor fractures and cuts list at Kings College Dental Hospital ON MY OWN for nearly a week. (ok there was a senior doctor around to "supervise" ,but he hardly ever was around or able to help me.)We all had to do it , and it was a bloody joke, aswell as being a really awful experience. (You can imagine the sort of ungrateful kwants I had to treat..BTW this was for no pay..)
I was 23.
The wait for anyone with a cut scalp, sliced arm, or fracture was over 3 hours, because no one else was helping me.
Im not kidding.
OK this was 13 years ago, but it wouldnt suprise me if the same sort of farce continues nowadays.
All it would have taken is another student or at least another junior doctor to cut that list down to an hour of far less.
Such was the large blob of poo that was the NHS.
I remember being a dental student with
all experience having to look after the minor fractures and cuts list at Kings College Dental Hospital ON MY OWN for nearly a week. (ok there was a senior doctor around to "supervise" ,but he hardly ever was around or able to help me.)We all had to do it , and it was a bloody joke, aswell as being a really awful experience. (You can imagine the sort of ungrateful kwants I had to treat..BTW this was for no pay..) I was 23.
The wait for anyone with a cut scalp, sliced arm, or fracture was over 3 hours, because no one else was helping me.
Im not kidding.
OK this was 13 years ago, but it wouldnt suprise me if the same sort of farce continues nowadays.
All it would have taken is another student or at least another junior doctor to cut that list down to an hour of far less.
Such was the large blob of poo that was the NHS.
Sorry but i'm not sure how this story relates to GPs.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
Sorry but i'm not sure how this story relates to GPs.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
Julian64 said:
Sorry but i'm not sure how this story relates to GPs.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
That being the case, I apologise if I have unfairly slighted anybody. I have to say that from my perspective as the person on the other end of the leg, I have been left with a distinct feeling that the whole process has not been professionally managed. The consultant made no attempt to hide his embarrassment but has promised to buy me a beer!
My girlfriend works in NHS management. She is continually upset by the amount of red-tape and target-chasing she's required to do which prevents her from doing her actual job (for example, improving the xray filing process so that your x-rays don't get lost!).
Too many targets, not enough service.
Too many targets, not enough service.
In the runup to last Christmas, my Girlfriend wasnt feeling very well.
Upset stomache.
About a week later, it had been getting worse and one Saturday night, it suddenly became much worse, she was in tears from the semi-random stapping pains that would arrive every 5 minutes or so. Quick call to the doctors and we were advised to head to A&E.
So we did.
Arrived at about 1am ish.
Registered with reception and sat there waiting... and waiting... and waiting... eventually managed to get her some pain relief about 4am so she wasnt in that much pain she was sobbing any more.
At about 5am a variety of samples were taken for testing, we saw a nurse...
At about 7am she was moved out of the waiting room to somewhere she could lie down, a little examination room just off the A&E.
At about the same time she managed to get some more effective painkillers, by this point we were both utterly sleep deprived and she was now off her face on whatever the nurse had given her.
Doctor arrived in the room at about 8 to half past. Examined her, prodded her and asked if it hurt (no, because she's so tired and medicated you could amputate her feet without her noticing...) and then declared that all the test results were clear, he couldnt see anything wrong and sent her home.
She was still ill on Sunday and Monday morning took her down to my GP. Who after ten minutes, having performed a quick urine test diagnosed an infection and supplied something to clear it up rapidly.
It did.
Sorry for the long post, but I think it gets my point across that unless your actively pumping massive amounts of claret across the floor, A&E staff (in my experience) seem not to give a shit and be completely innefectual. The main goal seems to be to declare you cured and get you out of the door.
Other departments of the NHS offer a very different experience. When its actively obviously serious (ie lots of blood, massive trauma etc) then the people who do know what they are doing step to the fore and offer their full attention. Otherwise... my experience has been terrible (one example given, but there are a few more I could relate)
Having said that, my GP is excellent. I've probably dealt with all the doctors and most of the nurses in the surgery over the last few years and all are top notch and deliver a service that is actively good (IMHO).
Upset stomache.
About a week later, it had been getting worse and one Saturday night, it suddenly became much worse, she was in tears from the semi-random stapping pains that would arrive every 5 minutes or so. Quick call to the doctors and we were advised to head to A&E.
So we did.
Arrived at about 1am ish.
Registered with reception and sat there waiting... and waiting... and waiting... eventually managed to get her some pain relief about 4am so she wasnt in that much pain she was sobbing any more.
At about 5am a variety of samples were taken for testing, we saw a nurse...
At about 7am she was moved out of the waiting room to somewhere she could lie down, a little examination room just off the A&E.
At about the same time she managed to get some more effective painkillers, by this point we were both utterly sleep deprived and she was now off her face on whatever the nurse had given her.
Doctor arrived in the room at about 8 to half past. Examined her, prodded her and asked if it hurt (no, because she's so tired and medicated you could amputate her feet without her noticing...) and then declared that all the test results were clear, he couldnt see anything wrong and sent her home.
She was still ill on Sunday and Monday morning took her down to my GP. Who after ten minutes, having performed a quick urine test diagnosed an infection and supplied something to clear it up rapidly.
It did.
Sorry for the long post, but I think it gets my point across that unless your actively pumping massive amounts of claret across the floor, A&E staff (in my experience) seem not to give a shit and be completely innefectual. The main goal seems to be to declare you cured and get you out of the door.
Other departments of the NHS offer a very different experience. When its actively obviously serious (ie lots of blood, massive trauma etc) then the people who do know what they are doing step to the fore and offer their full attention. Otherwise... my experience has been terrible (one example given, but there are a few more I could relate)
Having said that, my GP is excellent. I've probably dealt with all the doctors and most of the nurses in the surgery over the last few years and all are top notch and deliver a service that is actively good (IMHO).
The NHS'ss big problem now is that it is Governed/managed by Targets.
Eventually all that happens is what is on the target : all else will be ignored.
And then there will be many ways to hit a target.
There are some superb examples out there - like never more than a 1 hr wait in Casualty but they move them to a ward or corridor : so a target avoided..
Got a great article on this at work.. really made me think.
Eventually all that happens is what is on the target : all else will be ignored.
And then there will be many ways to hit a target.
There are some superb examples out there - like never more than a 1 hr wait in Casualty but they move them to a ward or corridor : so a target avoided..
Got a great article on this at work.. really made me think.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Sorry but i'm not sure how this story relates to GPs.
Its not an uncommon story I'm afraid but let me explain. NHS underfunded and overworked, casualties especially and although the advice is generally good the wait is unfortunately characteristic. May I suggest in future going to your GP rather than the casualty, although in this case possibly not practical if you couldn't walk, however we GP's have been known to do home visits.
Secondly, try to understand their problem. An xray of an ankle is quite difficult to diagnoses a fracture on. Its got nothing to do with the inexperience of the staff at the casualty. There is almost every speciality available. Its go to do with the fact that some fractures are very very difficult to spot at the time.
Give it one week and your body starts to produce a new covering bone growth at the site of even the smallest fracture called callous formation.
So the doctor seeing your ankle a week later on xray would have been able to identify a fracture missed a week ago with ease. Which is why most suspected injuries are usually brought back to fracture clinics a week after their injuries.
The problem with casualties and where they fall down the most is that no one has time to sit a patient down and explain anything.
That being the case, I apologise if I have unfairly slighted anybody. I have to say that from my perspective as the person on the other end of the leg, I have been left with a distinct feeling that the whole process has not been professionally managed. The consultant made no attempt to hide his embarrassment but has promised to buy me a beer!
I don't think you're being unfair, its just that the NHS is a sausage factory. That bod that saw you the first day, should have said.
'I don't think its broken, although we will put you in NWB plaster because is a good treatment for bad sprain of ligaments or a fracture' We will bring you back in a week for re-xray as that gives us better information about your injury and give you the final word then.
Problems in communication like this happen all over the NHS, and have done since the first day of the NHS. Difference is that we now live in a culture of blame and are ready to point a finger. Look how many people have commented on your thread that the NHS is crap already.
Our recent experience with the NHS was diabolical almost criminal. (ignoring our past experiences as they were just inconvenient not life threatening.)
The staff were not overworked IMHO, it was a maternity unit. With many staff milling around, duplicating and fluffing over all and everything.
Thing are all well and good when everything is going well but even then their admin of the Nurses/midwives was appaling at the best of time and when things did go wrong they screwed up even further and fell apart.
Basic medical checks after a birth was not carried out, I was telling them what I though my wife had wrong with her after looking up symptoms from a noddy what to look out for after a birth book. Wife could have so easily died in childbirth due to staff not taking basic checks. She was taken to intensive care 24 hrs after birth and on a ventalator/oxygen. (Our twins were fine in Special care unit.)
They also had no idea of what tablets she had been given by them and was asking her each time - no proper record keeping. In fact her records are a pile of shite of her treatment chain.
Thats apart from the stavation diet they gave her for 3 weeks whilst in hospital. I was cooking food for her and bringing it in. (plain meet) She cannot eat Wheat or Gluetin. Thats is - a mild diety requirement but they could not cope with it. She was meant to be eating for 3 they werent even feading her for half a person.
The nurses could not give a shit if she ate or had any food for her. If she was not in the bed when the food came round it was not left for her. She would more often then not be given a salad and an apple for an expectant mother of twins and the same again at most meals, maybe a potato. Meat - no a chance as its all coated with breadrumbs or coated with sauces with wheat in it. Plain meat they could not provide. Only once did a kitchen staff member when she came up for missing plates find out what sort of food they had been providing and was one of the old Matron from about 40 years ago and she was furios with the nurses and gave a good shouting to them.
God help someone who has no relation to bring in basic food or to look out for them. We also know a staff nurse who has the most cushy number going/pay/working time/holidays/pensions.
The wards were dirty. The toilets dirty.
So, i am sorry but i dont beleive the NHS staff are all wounderful and fantastic, infact I think it is a wooly mamoth with lots of parasite who go off sick at a drop of a hat get paid too much and have an over important view of themselves. They are another bunch of civil servants who have no idea of the real world and economics.
Cleary not all staff are poor but boy i think they have an easy bandwagon and are playing it for the most its worth.
The staff were not overworked IMHO, it was a maternity unit. With many staff milling around, duplicating and fluffing over all and everything.
Thing are all well and good when everything is going well but even then their admin of the Nurses/midwives was appaling at the best of time and when things did go wrong they screwed up even further and fell apart.
Basic medical checks after a birth was not carried out, I was telling them what I though my wife had wrong with her after looking up symptoms from a noddy what to look out for after a birth book. Wife could have so easily died in childbirth due to staff not taking basic checks. She was taken to intensive care 24 hrs after birth and on a ventalator/oxygen. (Our twins were fine in Special care unit.)
They also had no idea of what tablets she had been given by them and was asking her each time - no proper record keeping. In fact her records are a pile of shite of her treatment chain.
Thats apart from the stavation diet they gave her for 3 weeks whilst in hospital. I was cooking food for her and bringing it in. (plain meet) She cannot eat Wheat or Gluetin. Thats is - a mild diety requirement but they could not cope with it. She was meant to be eating for 3 they werent even feading her for half a person.
The nurses could not give a shit if she ate or had any food for her. If she was not in the bed when the food came round it was not left for her. She would more often then not be given a salad and an apple for an expectant mother of twins and the same again at most meals, maybe a potato. Meat - no a chance as its all coated with breadrumbs or coated with sauces with wheat in it. Plain meat they could not provide. Only once did a kitchen staff member when she came up for missing plates find out what sort of food they had been providing and was one of the old Matron from about 40 years ago and she was furios with the nurses and gave a good shouting to them.
God help someone who has no relation to bring in basic food or to look out for them. We also know a staff nurse who has the most cushy number going/pay/working time/holidays/pensions.
The wards were dirty. The toilets dirty.
So, i am sorry but i dont beleive the NHS staff are all wounderful and fantastic, infact I think it is a wooly mamoth with lots of parasite who go off sick at a drop of a hat get paid too much and have an over important view of themselves. They are another bunch of civil servants who have no idea of the real world and economics.
Cleary not all staff are poor but boy i think they have an easy bandwagon and are playing it for the most its worth.
superlightr said:
Our recent experience with the NHS was diabolical almost criminal. (ignoring our past experiences as they were just inconvenient not life threatening.)
The staff were not overworked IMHO, it was a maternity unit. With many staff milling around, duplicating and fluffing over all and everything.
Thing are all well and good when everything is going well but even then their admin of the Nurses/midwives was appaling at the best of time and when things did go wrong they screwed up even further and fell apart.
Basic medical checks after a birth was not carried out, I was telling them what I though my wife had wrong with her after looking up symptoms from a noddy what to look out for after a birth book. Wife could have so easily died in childbirth due to staff not taking basic checks. She was taken to intensive care 24 hrs after birth and on a ventalator/oxygen. (Our twins were fine in Special care unit.)
They also had no idea of what tablets she had been given by them and was asking her each time - no proper record keeping. In fact her records are a pile of shite of her treatment chain.
Thats apart from the stavation diet they gave her for 3 weeks whilst in hospital. I was cooking food for her and bringing it in. (plain meet) She cannot eat Wheat or Gluetin. Thats is - a mild diety requirement but they could not cope with it. She was meant to be eating for 3 they werent even feading her for half a person.
The nurses could not give a shit if she ate or had any food for her. If she was not in the bed when the food came round it was not left for her. She would more often then not be given a salad and an apple for an expectant mother of twins and the same again at most meals, maybe a potato. Meat - no a chance as its all coated with breadrumbs or coated with sauces with wheat in it. Plain meat they could not provide. Only once did a kitchen staff member when she came up for missing plates find out what sort of food they had been providing and was one of the old Matron from about 40 years ago and she was furios with the nurses and gave a good shouting to them.
God help someone who has no relation to bring in basic food or to look out for them. We also know a staff nurse who has the most cushy number going/pay/working time/holidays/pensions.
The wards were dirty. The toilets dirty.
So, i am sorry but i dont beleive the NHS staff are all wounderful and fantastic, infact I think it is a wooly mamoth with lots of parasite who go off sick at a drop of a hat get paid too much and have an over important view of themselves. They are another bunch of civil servants who have no idea of the real world and economics.
Cleary not all staff are poor but boy i think they have an easy bandwagon and are playing it for the most its worth.
Yep, gotta admit that sounds incredibly shitty. No excuses
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