Is Telling Lies Endemic?

[Size Nine Elm]

I never tell lies.

[PatHeald]

I defend criminals for a living.

I have spent the last ten years telling the local magistrates that the Moon is made of blue cheese.

Amazingly, some of them still believe me.....

Cheers

Pat

[MilnerR]

A little deception is the common currency of human existence isn't it? Most people when faced with a situation will do a quick calculation as to which will ultimately cause them the least hassle in the long run. If the truth will serve as well as a lie then they'll tell the truth.. if its worth the risk most people will tell a little lie to make their life easier. Its the way in which you balance the risk/reward equation. For example: Your boss asks you if you've put an order in for XY and Z. You haven't, but will now you've been reminded. Do you:

a) Tell your boss that no you haven't ordered XY and Z and look incompetent
b) Figure out whether your boss can check up. If they can't, reply yes you have, then go and do it.

Most people go for b.....


Pat, you are a person of the lowest moral fibre who drinks far too much..... I suspect we'd get on famously

[lazyitus]

PatHeald said:

I defend criminals for a living. I have spent the last ten years telling the local magistrates that the Moon is made of blue cheese. Amazingly, some of them still believe me..... Cheers Pat

Its the ones that don't believe you that you should be worried about.

[mybrainhurts]

I assure you all Johnny Prescott is a damn fine blokey bloke and an all round good egg.......

[kenny chim 4]

los angeles said:

Have you caught someone telling a big fib, or have you been caught telling one?

Not me, but I remember Mon Ami Mate questioning the truth surrounding a certain Pistonheader's woeful tale of his daughter's French friend who was killed in the London bombings in July.

Transpired no French nationals died

[mybrainhurts]

los angeles said:

mybrainhurts said: I assure you all Johnny Prescott is a damn fine blokey bloke and an all round good egg....... "Good egg?" You mean, three eggs, five rashers of bacon, five tomatoes, six sausages, two double thickness buttermilk and cheese waffles smothered in a jug of maple syrup, a pile of hash browns ... and then some breakfast cereal.

Dammit....I do believe you're telling the truth.

[srebbe64]

Sad to say, LA's right. So much so that honesty is comparatively rare. If I can continue with LA's footbal analogy. A few years ago, Robbie Fowler was awarded a penalty he didn't deserve - and he tried to talk the ref out of it (he subsequently missed!) Equally, Paulo Dicanio caught the ball, in a goal scoring opportunity, so that an opponent could get treatment. The point being, the media went into meltdown at such honesty and fair play. The reason, of course, is that such acts are scarce. Surely in a healthy society, such actions should be the norm and cheeting should cause outrage.

[mybrainhurts]

los angeles said:

mybrainhurts said: Dammit....I do believe you're telling the truth. I may have been exaggerating, Mybrainhurts, but I'm not sure.

I'll put the omission of pies down to error, rather than fib.....

[srebbe64]

[redacted]

[srebbe64]

Maybe. Or perhaps it's an inner belief that "I'm right, regardless".

Player is honest: Fans say "our players are more honest than yours".
Player is dishonest: Fans say "our team is better than yours".

There again, the term "fan" is short for "fanatic". Perhaps we can learn about fundamentalist fanatics by observing sports fans close to home.

[R988]

But can people handle the truth?

Lies are the lubricant of society.

I tell the truth far too much and it mainly gets me in trouble. Someone will come up and say 'what do you think of this?' and I'll say 'I think it's crap', and they'll go off and I'll be .
Some people appreciate being told the straight out truth, others prefer it sugarcoated at best, or flat out lies if possible.

I tend towards the overly truthful, 'stating what everyone knows but is afraid to say side' despite the consquences of the spectrum, but I have no moral problem with telling a tale to save my arse, or even a slight deception to make my life easier, it mainly depends on if I think I can get away with it or not and if anyone is going to be hurt/disadvantaged by my actions. For example if I slept in for 10mins and I blamed the bus for being late to work, noone is really hurt or greatly disadvantaged by that so I see no problem in doing it.

I generally dont cheat in games though, I dont take myself or most games seriously enough to bother cheating to win, like the saying goes you are only cheating yourself, and I prefer knowing I gave it all and came second than to win knowing I had to cheat to do it. That generally goes for relationships as well, I see no point in cheating on someone. If the relationship is dead in the water then I just point it out and finish it before starting a new one. When you start ripping into peoples feelings and taking advantage of their trust then you have gone too far according to my vague guidelines for life. But everyone has their own separate moral standards they observe.

Too much truth can be just as hurtful as too many lies though, the ideal is somewhere in between I think.

[srebbe64]

R988 said:

Someone will come up and say 'what do you think of this?' and I'll say 'I think it's crap', and they'll go off and I'll be .... When you start ripping into peoples feelings and taking advantage of their trust then you have gone too far

I think the two statements above are, to some extent, a little contradictory. If someone says to me "what do you think of this?" And, assuming I don't like it, I'll probably say something along the lines "interesting idea, what about adding XYZ and removing ABC?"

As such, it's possible to be honest without offending people.

[srebbe64]

I saw an opinion poll recently which indicated that the public will accept many flaws from MP's but not lies.

It's interesting to note that in the recent Tory MP's vote for leader, the total number of tory MP's which promised to back one candidate or the the other was greater (by some margin) than the total number of Tory MP's. The clear conclusion is that many of these MP's promised both potential leaders that they had their support. As such, it's fair to say that it's been proven that many MP's lie.

[Thelemming]

Try being totally and completely honest in any question you're asked for a day.

See if your single and possibly unemployed after that 24 hour period. (Try saying "Yes dear, your ass looks positively huge in that, on the other hand it draws attention away from your new top. But its ok, you go out like that and I will smile and nod and tell you its fine. I cant be assed to spend time with your irritating idiot parents this weekend, I will stay home and play on the PS2 instead."

There is perhaps a big difference between the social lubricant of white lies, those that avoid having to insult a friend or a loved one, or allow us to minimise friction in social interaction.

The others, lies aimed to mislead, misdirect, gain sympathy or credit for actions we havent performed, blatant social "fraud" as it were, yes I think they are becoming far more endemic. Honesty seems to become increasingly rare unless people (in general) have something to gain from it.

In public life it appears to be practically non-existent. Politics especially, at least in the past people were expected to resign having been caught lying through their teeth or breaking the rules.

[victormeldrew]

Size Nine Elm said:

I never tell lies.

Everything I say is a lie.

[r988]

srebbe64 said:

R988 said: Someone will come up and say 'what do you think of this?' and I'll say 'I think it's crap', and they'll go off and I'll be .... When you start ripping into peoples feelings and taking advantage of their trust then you have gone too far I think the two statements above are, to some extent, a little contradictory. If someone says to me "what do you think of this?" And, assuming I don't like it, I'll probably say something along the lines "interesting idea, what about adding XYZ and removing ABC?" As such, it's possible to be honest without offending people.

Yeah I know, but not as fun

Seriously though, it's still a sort of lie if you butter up the truth though, even if you hate it and say that you like but could you change this, this and this, and that, which basically means the whole thing then your still misrepresenting the truth.

What about the infamous wife asking 'does my bum look in this?' (and lets assume that it does)

What are you going to say to that mister?

[morebeanz]

To start with, I really believe that you have to split the manner of your communication from what you are saying. Whether you are blunt or loquacious, polite or rude doesn't make any difference to what you are saying. It makes a HUGE difference to how it is received though. Softening your tone or phrases, or picking the timing of your comments does not mean that you are lying, particularly when you consider that communication needs your message to be listened to!

Altering your intended message from what you believe though, whether "white" or otherwise is simple dissemblance.

[MilnerR]

r988 said:

What about the infamous wife asking 'does my bum look big in this?' (and lets assume that it does) What are you going to say to that mister?

"sweetheart, your bum would look big in an aircraft hangar.... don't worry about it!"

[srebbe64]

r988 said:

What about the infamous wife asking 'does my bum look in this?'

I'd say, "no because your bum doesn't have eyes".