Typical lentilist Cr*p
Discussion
We already have the problem that criminals under the age of 17 are not punished properly for their crimes and now they want to extend this up to 23.
BBC article
Young 'fast-tracked into crime'
The report says young men naturally grow out of criminal behaviour
Young offenders are being fast-tracked into a life of crime by criminal justice policies that treat them as fully mature adults, a new report says.
Youngsters are exposed to hardened criminals in jail and cut off from support services, the report for charitable trust Barrow Cadbury said.
Instead funding should focus on supporting young offenders in their transition to adulthood, it argued.
Nearly 75% of young offenders re-offend after they are released from prison.
'Grow out of crime'
Chairman of the Barrow Cadbury Commission Greg Parston said: "Our failure to address the needs of young adult offenders in transition to adulthood is wasting money.
"If we want safer communities we need an end to the 'one-size fits all' solution for young adult offenders."
Public services need to be better geared to help young people in trouble grow into adulthood leading crime-free lives, he added.
The commission points to the £800 million cost of imprisoning 18-24-year-olds and says this group is responsible for £20 billion worth of crime annually.
But according to the report most young men will "grow out" of crime after the age of 18 - and the majority will desist naturally at the age of 23.
75% of young offenders re-offend after leaving prison
Using prison sentences is counterproductive and magistrates should avoid imposing custodial sentences until the age of 23, the report said.
It also argued that young offenders under the age of 23 should not be required to disclose their criminal convictions to potentional employers.
Instead the system should tailor provision on the basis of maturity not age, it added.
Race
And the Independent Police Complaints Commission and the Home Office should set up a young adult advisory group to discus how young people are policed, it added.
This ought to look at the disproportionate impact of policing on black and ethnic minority young adults.
The independent Commission on Young Adults and the Criminal Justice System was set up in the summer of 2004 by the Barrow Cadbury Trust.
A range of people involved in the criminal justice system, including doctors, lawyers and criminologists, were invited to give evidence.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Wednesday 16th November 13:27
BBC article
Young 'fast-tracked into crime'
The report says young men naturally grow out of criminal behaviour
Young offenders are being fast-tracked into a life of crime by criminal justice policies that treat them as fully mature adults, a new report says.
Youngsters are exposed to hardened criminals in jail and cut off from support services, the report for charitable trust Barrow Cadbury said.
Instead funding should focus on supporting young offenders in their transition to adulthood, it argued.
Nearly 75% of young offenders re-offend after they are released from prison.
'Grow out of crime'
Chairman of the Barrow Cadbury Commission Greg Parston said: "Our failure to address the needs of young adult offenders in transition to adulthood is wasting money.
"If we want safer communities we need an end to the 'one-size fits all' solution for young adult offenders."
Public services need to be better geared to help young people in trouble grow into adulthood leading crime-free lives, he added.
The commission points to the £800 million cost of imprisoning 18-24-year-olds and says this group is responsible for £20 billion worth of crime annually.
But according to the report most young men will "grow out" of crime after the age of 18 - and the majority will desist naturally at the age of 23.
75% of young offenders re-offend after leaving prison
Using prison sentences is counterproductive and magistrates should avoid imposing custodial sentences until the age of 23, the report said.
It also argued that young offenders under the age of 23 should not be required to disclose their criminal convictions to potentional employers.
Instead the system should tailor provision on the basis of maturity not age, it added.
Race
And the Independent Police Complaints Commission and the Home Office should set up a young adult advisory group to discus how young people are policed, it added.
This ought to look at the disproportionate impact of policing on black and ethnic minority young adults.
The independent Commission on Young Adults and the Criminal Justice System was set up in the summer of 2004 by the Barrow Cadbury Trust.
A range of people involved in the criminal justice system, including doctors, lawyers and criminologists, were invited to give evidence.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Wednesday 16th November 13:27
True, if youngsters are sent to adult prisons, this is a "basic training in crime", BUT wasn't a Borstal the same??? IMHO one should bring back the birch for young offenders and Borstal/prisons only when it's a real crime..... Little scrotes need a bit of authority and that's the only way they'll get it!!!
I actually agree with the idea of avoiding custodial sentences, that just introduces lads who are going bad to alot more bad influences.
There my agreement ends.
Minor offences need to be punished with time in a work gang, with a nice bright uniform so that it's obvious what they've done.
Re-offendors/ more serious offences should be publically flogged.
And in cases of deliberate violence/ muggings etc, the perpetrator should be given a more severe public beating. Equivalent to what they did to their victim
There my agreement ends.
Minor offences need to be punished with time in a work gang, with a nice bright uniform so that it's obvious what they've done.
Re-offendors/ more serious offences should be publically flogged.
And in cases of deliberate violence/ muggings etc, the perpetrator should be given a more severe public beating. Equivalent to what they did to their victim
Typical knee jerk reactions from PH.
Young people do not think the same as proper adults. It is because their brains are not connected up the same way, and in teens etc it results in the asshole Kevin and Perry behaviour we see everyday.
I think what you call lentilists are trying to say is that banging them up in the way we do is not very helpful.
Actually I'd agree with that.
Sadly some will take the lentilist message to mean, be nice to the little darlings and they will mend their ways. ha blooming ha.
They still need dealing with, and if that involves removing them from society so be it, but do it in a way which might give a positive result. If a regular beasting by a military professional sorts them out so be it, but all part of a co-ordinated approach which recognises why adolescents behave the way many do.
Of course there are some whose brains never connect in the adult way.
Young people do not think the same as proper adults. It is because their brains are not connected up the same way, and in teens etc it results in the asshole Kevin and Perry behaviour we see everyday.
I think what you call lentilists are trying to say is that banging them up in the way we do is not very helpful.
Actually I'd agree with that.
Sadly some will take the lentilist message to mean, be nice to the little darlings and they will mend their ways. ha blooming ha.
They still need dealing with, and if that involves removing them from society so be it, but do it in a way which might give a positive result. If a regular beasting by a military professional sorts them out so be it, but all part of a co-ordinated approach which recognises why adolescents behave the way many do.
Of course there are some whose brains never connect in the adult way.
I don't think they should be treated any differently.
On the other hand, separate institutions for "younger" offenders may limit the corruption of "occasional" offenders who just get caught, but equally the greater concentration of high-testosterone young tw@ts may cause more problems than it solves...
Certainly on no grounds should they be given any more leniency than the excessive amount they already are!
On the other hand, separate institutions for "younger" offenders may limit the corruption of "occasional" offenders who just get caught, but equally the greater concentration of high-testosterone young tw@ts may cause more problems than it solves...
Certainly on no grounds should they be given any more leniency than the excessive amount they already are!
'Grow out of it'?
Bullsh!t!
I used to regularly see the same few names pop up in the local paper, having been locked up for an assortment of crimes; one of them was at the same school as me, was a little b@stard even then... and was still burgling in his mid-thirties (maybe still is, for all I know).
Also, the c*nt who pulled a knife on me when I caught him with his arm through the wife's car window was around 30... so not a kid.
Bullsh!t!
I used to regularly see the same few names pop up in the local paper, having been locked up for an assortment of crimes; one of them was at the same school as me, was a little b@stard even then... and was still burgling in his mid-thirties (maybe still is, for all I know).
Also, the c*nt who pulled a knife on me when I caught him with his arm through the wife's car window was around 30... so not a kid.
Sounds like an excuse to try to stop sending so many people to our rapidly-becoming-full-prisons. Gotta love this Government - they still haven't worked out that by creating more laws you create more criminals. They then reduce the effectiveness of prison by reducing time served to offset the numbers of new criminals they "need" to lock up. Anyone spot the problem with this short term solution? (answers on a postcard usual address).
What ever happened to lady Justice being "blind"? I guess that's as archaic as being innocent until proven guilty (though these days its more like innocent until we make a law to make you guilty). Where's my "V for Vendetta" comic - I need some ideas........
What ever happened to lady Justice being "blind"? I guess that's as archaic as being innocent until proven guilty (though these days its more like innocent until we make a law to make you guilty). Where's my "V for Vendetta" comic - I need some ideas........
timmy30 said:
I actually agree with the idea of avoiding custodial sentences, that just introduces lads who are going bad to alot more bad influences.
Then perhaps they should be in youth prisons up until the age of 23, that does not mean they should not receive a custodial sentence.
The main purpose of a prison as far as I see it is not punishment but rather to protect society from criminals.
The report says many of them will 'grow out' of it by 24, fine let them grow out of it while sat in a prison cell, thus keeping the rest of us safe.
Flat in Fifth said:
Typical knee jerk reactions from PH.
Young people do not think the same as proper adults. It is because their brains are not connected up the same way, and in teens etc it results in the asshole Kevin and Perry behaviour we see everyday.
I think what you call lentilists are trying to say is that banging them up in the way we do is not very helpful.
Actually I'd agree with that.
Sadly some will take the lentilist message to mean, be nice to the little darlings and they will mend their ways. ha blooming ha.
They still need dealing with, and if that involves removing them from society so be it, but do it in a way which might give a positive result. If a regular beasting by a military professional sorts them out so be it, but all part of a co-ordinated approach which recognises why adolescents behave the way many do.
Of course there are some whose brains never connect in the adult way.
Fine as far as it goes
But the proposal is that they will receive no form of custodial sentence, thus increasing crime while they are left loose.
If an alternative to a conventional prison was suggested in a secure location then it might be something I could support, but no such institution is proposed.
Crime and punishment is always a complex area.
Personally I think the mindless vandalism, theft and violence committed by certain groups of young people should be dealt with quite harshly - the cause in many cases appears to be lack of discipline at home, so external discipline, esp. the "short sharp shock" approach would IMHO be more effective than some more "liberal" methods which can appear to be appeasement and reward for bad behaviour.
I would further suspect that many of these young offenders have not been taught about right and wrong, certainly not with any threat of consequences behind it. Introducing consequences HAS to be the way to deal with such people.
Personally I think the mindless vandalism, theft and violence committed by certain groups of young people should be dealt with quite harshly - the cause in many cases appears to be lack of discipline at home, so external discipline, esp. the "short sharp shock" approach would IMHO be more effective than some more "liberal" methods which can appear to be appeasement and reward for bad behaviour.
I would further suspect that many of these young offenders have not been taught about right and wrong, certainly not with any threat of consequences behind it. Introducing consequences HAS to be the way to deal with such people.
havoc said:
Introducing consequences HAS to be the way to deal with such people.
I agree, it's the removal of consequences which has brought about the rise of these people in the first place. It's a pity the ivory towered pillocks in government haven't figured that out yet.
>> Edited by scorp on Wednesday 16th November 17:05
I tend to agree with the initial article that a lot of the young grow out of crime, but why should I as a law abiding citizen have to wait for them to grow up (to be replaced by more)
Ozzy Osbourne classic example ok for him to go on the nick as a child but total wrong for him to be robbed in Britain.
Ozzy Osbourne classic example ok for him to go on the nick as a child but total wrong for him to be robbed in Britain.
scorp said:
Introducing consequences HAS to be the way to deal with such people.
I agree, it's the removal of consequences which has brought about the rise of these people in the first place. It's a pity the ivory towered pillocks in government haven't figured that out yet.
>> Edited by scorp on Wednesday 16th November 17:05
That's 'cause they live surrounded by police minders and live in the nice neighbourhoods anyway...you couldn't have them associating with "real people" now - I mean, the politicos might just choose to punch someone!!!
[quote=JagloverBut the proposal is that they will receive no form of custodial sentence, thus increasing crime while they are left loose.
If an alternative to a conventional prison was suggested in a secure location then it might be something I could support, but no such institution is proposed.
[/quote]
I didn't quite read it like that. I took it to say that putting them in conventional adult prisons isn't working.
Therefore, as you propose, if a prison sentence is appropriate they need to be in some institution which is more aligned to the needs of the offender and society.
Suspect we aren't too far away in our opinions JL. Yes?
If an alternative to a conventional prison was suggested in a secure location then it might be something I could support, but no such institution is proposed.
[/quote]
I didn't quite read it like that. I took it to say that putting them in conventional adult prisons isn't working.
Therefore, as you propose, if a prison sentence is appropriate they need to be in some institution which is more aligned to the needs of the offender and society.
Suspect we aren't too far away in our opinions JL. Yes?
Flat in Fifth said:
Therefore, as you propose, if a prison sentence is appropriate they need to be in some institution which is more aligned to the needs of the offender and society.
Suspect we aren't too far away in our opinions JL. Yes?
I think our opinions are not too far apart, but I think the producers of this report have in mind something very different.
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