Multi Room stereo advice needed?
Discussion
My sister is currently redoing a house, and i suggested to her the idea of putting in car speakers in the ceiling, and routing them to an amplifier. sort of like a cheap way to do those multi room systems you see in expensive houses.
i have sort of a rough idea of how to do, but am unsure of the type of amplifier to get. are there specific amps for this thing? or do i have to buy an av cinema amp and just use the 6 speaker outputs it has?
a normal amp is no use as they only have 1 pair of speaker outputs.
any suggestions? so far ive looked on richer sounds but havent found anything suitable.
also would it be best to get car speaker cable, or normal speaker cable?
hope somebody will be able to help me!
>> Edited by polarbert on Sunday 6th November 15:02
i have sort of a rough idea of how to do, but am unsure of the type of amplifier to get. are there specific amps for this thing? or do i have to buy an av cinema amp and just use the 6 speaker outputs it has?
a normal amp is no use as they only have 1 pair of speaker outputs.
any suggestions? so far ive looked on richer sounds but havent found anything suitable.
also would it be best to get car speaker cable, or normal speaker cable?
hope somebody will be able to help me!
>> Edited by polarbert on Sunday 6th November 15:02
Be careful using car speakers in a house. They will seem very quiet in a big room with open doors compared to a small tin box. In other words you will have to get pretty good ones if you don't want them distorting. You can buy loose hi-fi speakers from Maplins if you just want something that doesn't come already mounted in a box
Cable is cable, get something reasonable but not too expensive. Mains cable is good if its going to be hidden anyway.
As for amplifiers, Don't know, home cinema seems like the best way to me.
I'm sure someone that knows more than me will be along shortly.
>> Edited by dieseljohn on Sunday 6th November 15:34
Cable is cable, get something reasonable but not too expensive. Mains cable is good if its going to be hidden anyway.
As for amplifiers, Don't know, home cinema seems like the best way to me.
I'm sure someone that knows more than me will be along shortly.
>> Edited by dieseljohn on Sunday 6th November 15:34
Cyrus do a multiroom system, but it's not in the 'budget' price bracket.
www.cyrus.co.uk/cyruslink/cl_overview.htm
www.cyrus.co.uk/cyruslink/cl_overview.htm
Large pinch of salt time as I have next to no idea about any of this 
.
I have been thinking of doing something similar, as follows.
Amp - Pioneer 25 years old, I got it as part of a seperates system for my 18th, which has two individual switches "Speakers A" and "Speakers B".
My plan is to run a set of wires from "Speakers A" to a switch(see example here from richer sounds) from which I can run 2 pairs of speakers, each pair in a different room, and use the switch to "switch" between them.
Not sure if there would be an issue with the length of the cable ?
KJR
. I have been thinking of doing something similar, as follows.
Amp - Pioneer 25 years old, I got it as part of a seperates system for my 18th, which has two individual switches "Speakers A" and "Speakers B".
My plan is to run a set of wires from "Speakers A" to a switch(see example here from richer sounds) from which I can run 2 pairs of speakers, each pair in a different room, and use the switch to "switch" between them.
Not sure if there would be an issue with the length of the cable ?
KJR
I wouldn't use car speakers, proper ones aren't that expensive.
As for Amps most AV amps will support a second set of speakers... the link above includes switches and a remote volume control.
As for Amps most AV amps will support a second set of speakers... the link above includes switches and a remote volume control.
They use the door/boot to give the bass.They also have a different Impedence to standard home Stereo speakers. Usually 4-6 ohms instead of the more standard 8-12. This means they require more power and worse still current to achieve normal listening levels.
These seem to be of the correct spec for a domestic Hi-Fi amplifier. And are not that expensive
www.impactaudio.co.uk/speakers.asp?grp=1
Linn and Meridian also do this type of speaker, Linn's are called the "Sekret" and "Diskreet", Meridian's the DSP420 and M420 Which are active and passive versions of the same speaker. Another option is the "NXT" speaker which is a flat panel.
These seem to be of the correct spec for a domestic Hi-Fi amplifier. And are not that expensive
www.impactaudio.co.uk/speakers.asp?grp=1
Linn and Meridian also do this type of speaker, Linn's are called the "Sekret" and "Diskreet", Meridian's the DSP420 and M420 Which are active and passive versions of the same speaker. Another option is the "NXT" speaker which is a flat panel.
polarbert said:
i thought the impedance for normal stereo speakers for use in the home was 4-6? im sure that my floorstanders have an impediance of around 4 or 5.
so that means stereo speakers are around 8 ohms?
Normal Impedence is 8 Ohms. A few Home speakers, either very specialised or very cheap will be about 4ohms. The Original Linn Kans come to mind as being a difficult load as they varied in load and were inefficent to boot. Some Amplifiers have seperate speaker taps for 4 and 12ohms to compensate.
>> Edited by telecat on Sunday 6th November 19:44
Beware of mis-information!!!
Domestic 'hi-fi' speakers usually have a nominal impedance of 4 to 8 ohms, though this is a nominal value and will vary across the frequency range and some loads can present a difficult time to an amplifier. This why it is important to have an amplifier with good current driving capabilities as it will be able to handle these loads effortlessly without shutting down. It will also be able to handle any transients effectively (ie rapid changes in dynamics).
How loud a system will play depends on many things, but mostly on amplifier power output (ideally large current reserves as mentioned above) and on the efficiency of the speakers (Sensitivity db/w/m). The higher the sensitivity the louder they will play on an equivalent lower volume setting. Too high though and you will get 'hiss' through the system.
Most speakers rely on a box either sealed or ported to remain tuneful, but there are transmission line and infinite baffle units available. A simple ceiling speaker will effectively be an infinite baffle. Not all infinite baffle designs are bad.
Going back to the topic I would suggest using a network of sever-based players, something like the Slim Devices Squeezebox, coupled with a low cost amplifier and a reasonable pair of speakers you can equip as many rooms as required with distributed audio from a PC server. (one big advantage of the squeezebox is that it supports full bandwidth audio files WAV and FLAC as well as the compressed MP3 variety, it also supports radio including BBC channels through the AlienBBC plugin).
In this scenario each room can have independent audio or some or all of the rooms can be synced together to output the same material. Squeezeboxes versions 2 and 3 have decent volume controls so only a power amplifier is required. There are companies putting together these systems such as www.at-view.co.uk
I have serveral Squeezebox units with a dedicted PC server with a pile of WAV and FLAC files and it works really well.
The equipment in the rooms varies from the kitchen (£180 system s/h squeezebox (£90), s/h Ion Obelisk Amplifer (eBay £40) and s/h Kef Q50 speakers (local dealer £50) to a full blown Meridian System. With some minor mods to the Squeezebox unit it can rival some very serious CD transports.
Hope that helps
davidy
Domestic 'hi-fi' speakers usually have a nominal impedance of 4 to 8 ohms, though this is a nominal value and will vary across the frequency range and some loads can present a difficult time to an amplifier. This why it is important to have an amplifier with good current driving capabilities as it will be able to handle these loads effortlessly without shutting down. It will also be able to handle any transients effectively (ie rapid changes in dynamics).
How loud a system will play depends on many things, but mostly on amplifier power output (ideally large current reserves as mentioned above) and on the efficiency of the speakers (Sensitivity db/w/m). The higher the sensitivity the louder they will play on an equivalent lower volume setting. Too high though and you will get 'hiss' through the system.
Most speakers rely on a box either sealed or ported to remain tuneful, but there are transmission line and infinite baffle units available. A simple ceiling speaker will effectively be an infinite baffle. Not all infinite baffle designs are bad.
Going back to the topic I would suggest using a network of sever-based players, something like the Slim Devices Squeezebox, coupled with a low cost amplifier and a reasonable pair of speakers you can equip as many rooms as required with distributed audio from a PC server. (one big advantage of the squeezebox is that it supports full bandwidth audio files WAV and FLAC as well as the compressed MP3 variety, it also supports radio including BBC channels through the AlienBBC plugin).
In this scenario each room can have independent audio or some or all of the rooms can be synced together to output the same material. Squeezeboxes versions 2 and 3 have decent volume controls so only a power amplifier is required. There are companies putting together these systems such as www.at-view.co.uk
I have serveral Squeezebox units with a dedicted PC server with a pile of WAV and FLAC files and it works really well.
The equipment in the rooms varies from the kitchen (£180 system s/h squeezebox (£90), s/h Ion Obelisk Amplifer (eBay £40) and s/h Kef Q50 speakers (local dealer £50) to a full blown Meridian System. With some minor mods to the Squeezebox unit it can rival some very serious CD transports.
Hope that helps
davidy
Multi Room Multi Zone.
If you are running wires.
Carry line level, then amplify per room.
Far superior sound quality and if you want in ceiling jobs its still possible with shorter runs of speaker cable which again leads to better quality.
Easiest of course is wireless with something like Roku Soundbridges and Media Player Extender.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Sunday 6th November 22:23
If you are running wires.
Carry line level, then amplify per room.
Far superior sound quality and if you want in ceiling jobs its still possible with shorter runs of speaker cable which again leads to better quality.
Easiest of course is wireless with something like Roku Soundbridges and Media Player Extender.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Sunday 6th November 22:23
telecat said:
i thought the impedance for normal stereo speakers for use in the home was 4-6? im sure that my floorstanders have an impediance of around 4 or 5.
so that means stereo speakers are around 8 ohms?
Normal Impedence is 8 Ohms. A few Home speakers, either very specialised or very cheap will be about 4ohms. The Original Linn Kans come to mind as being a difficult load as they varied in load and were inefficent to boot. Some Amplifiers have seperate speaker taps for 4 and 12ohms to compensate.
>> Edited by telecat on Sunday 6th November 19:44
i have some wharfdale diamond 8.4 floorstanders and im sure they have an impediance of around 5.
so those squeezebox thingys, you need a pc to work them?
i remember reading something similar to those in what hi-fi, they did a group test on these box things, but i had no idea what they were, i know that apple had one. i think they were basically what you were talking about, because they needed a pc, do these then just read mp3s from the one server and play them in whichever room you choose?
i couldnt make much sense out of the what hi-fi article, i wish i had it now as i think i would know what was going on with it.
is there like an industry standard name for them? like wireless music servers or something?
polarbert
RE: Squeezebox
One PC acting as a server running SlimServer, multiple client Squeezeboxes connected either via wired or wireless ethernet. Remember each Squeezebox requires an amplifier and speakers.
For more info visit www.slimdevices.com there is also a good forum in the Community section.
davidy
RE: Squeezebox
One PC acting as a server running SlimServer, multiple client Squeezeboxes connected either via wired or wireless ethernet. Remember each Squeezebox requires an amplifier and speakers.
For more info visit www.slimdevices.com there is also a good forum in the Community section.
davidy
Plotloss said:
Easiest of course is wireless with something like Roku Soundbridges and Media Player Extender.
>> Edited by Plotloss on Sunday 6th November 22:23
I run two Roku soundbridges (wireless) and one Turtle Beach Audiotron (wired). All of these need an amplifier, I use a normal stereo for two of them. For the kitchen soundbridge I use 2 car speakers wired up to a sub from some PC speakers which also provides the amp for the car speakers. Car speakers not a problem in a kitchen, or even a bathroom as the hard surfaces mean you don't need to drive them hard at all, also they use the void between the ceiling and the floor above as an enclosure so can be f'ing loud.
Somewhere like www.cpc.co.uk do a range of in ceiling speakers that are suitable.
Ben
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