Identifying 993 RSR mufflers
Discussion
I bought a 993 C4S recently. What's the easiest way of telling *visually* whether it already has RSR mufflers? I ask since, while the car makes a great noise, I've never really closely considered it against any other 993 and I want to check it hasn't already got them before I order them.
Alex,
Visually it's not that easy to tell - get under the car from either side and have a look at the silencer box.
It will have welds at both ends that go all the way around, one at the closed end should be *perfect* (like it was done by a machine or someone who has done it in their sleep for years). At the end where the two pipes come out, is the weld the same or is it noticeably less tidy?
For sound, do you get crackles and pops on overrun or not (try off-the-throttle from 6k rpm down to 2k rpm in 3rd)?
If you do, they're probably RSR's.
Or just pop round to my house and i'll tell you...
Visually it's not that easy to tell - get under the car from either side and have a look at the silencer box.
It will have welds at both ends that go all the way around, one at the closed end should be *perfect* (like it was done by a machine or someone who has done it in their sleep for years). At the end where the two pipes come out, is the weld the same or is it noticeably less tidy?
For sound, do you get crackles and pops on overrun or not (try off-the-throttle from 6k rpm down to 2k rpm in 3rd)?
If you do, they're probably RSR's.
Or just pop round to my house and i'll tell you...
paulmc, when we talk about RSR mufflers on here we are usually talking about Robin Sun's muffler mod to standard boxes (which which therefore just have the standard Gillet or Bischoff markings).
See http://p-car.com for more details. Note though that the cut/weld location shown in those picture is no longer representative, now they cut along the standard weld line.
See http://p-car.com for more details. Note though that the cut/weld location shown in those picture is no longer representative, now they cut along the standard weld line.
At 6000 revs in 3rd Overtake Micra driving OAP. If they swerve, stop and then flash you madly as you dissapear up the Norfolk 'B' road at 100mph you probably have RSR's.
I discovered this test last week! I could see them wobbling around in my rear view mirror....felt a bit guilty but it was very funny.
I discovered this test last week! I could see them wobbling around in my rear view mirror....felt a bit guilty but it was very funny.
Hmmm - thanks folks - definitely need to take a look then. High revs is a pleasantly noisy affair so there's a chance I guess - but there's also a soon-to-be-replaced-with-motorsound-airbox cone filter to get rid of that could be contributing to the racket.
Additionally, I've came most recently from turbo cars so anything sounds loud to me!
What a car though - even only a few hundred miles in...;-)
Additionally, I've came most recently from turbo cars so anything sounds loud to me!
What a car though - even only a few hundred miles in...;-)
The standard 993 sounds good if you rev it hard, most of the noise coming from the induction. Holes in the airbox (or the factory 'motorsound' airbox) make this louder.
If the only noise you get is howling at high revs, and there's no bass or pulse at idle / low revs, then the likely source of the sound is the induction gear.
A modified exhaust (whether RSR or aftermarket stainless jobbies, although the latter will be easier to spot) should give some idle / low rev throb.
Since the 993 has separate silencer boxes and tailpipe ends, it's perfectly possible to have modified boxes with standard tailpipes, looking OEM from the outside (and of course vice versa, Porsche's 'motorsound' 993 kit was a drilled airbox and some shiny tailpipe ends - retaining the standard silencer boxes)...
Even the Fabspeed Supercups give very little extra power (the standard gear is not a significant restriction in the engine, from what I know) - if you're happy with the sound your car makes then why bother changing them? There isn't any instant BHP gain whatsoever but you'll pay more insurance-wise.
The other aspect of aftermarket exhausts - weight loss - is probably only applicable to things like the Supercups. Both Robin Sun boxes, Fabspeed Maxflos and the Cargraphic boxes I have weigh near as much as the OEM equipment.
I personally reckon the 993 was built oversilenced, and that noisy pipes really unlock the character of the car - I can understand how ex-TVR owners think some Porsches are too smooth and characterless, but the Porker flat six is one of the all time greatest engines and is fantastically charismatic when not smothered
If you also want to hear the engine sing a little more, do try to experience a few of the options - the RSR pipes come highly recommended, but so do the Fabspeed Maxflo and the Cargraphic pipes - and they all sound distinctively different, you may find you particularly like one more than the others.
Sorry for long post, it's a typical beer-fuelled ramble about Porsches
If you want to hear the Cargraphic silencers and you're near Kent then mail me, I'd be happy to help (though the rest of my car isn't exactly standard)
If the only noise you get is howling at high revs, and there's no bass or pulse at idle / low revs, then the likely source of the sound is the induction gear.
A modified exhaust (whether RSR or aftermarket stainless jobbies, although the latter will be easier to spot) should give some idle / low rev throb.
Since the 993 has separate silencer boxes and tailpipe ends, it's perfectly possible to have modified boxes with standard tailpipes, looking OEM from the outside (and of course vice versa, Porsche's 'motorsound' 993 kit was a drilled airbox and some shiny tailpipe ends - retaining the standard silencer boxes)...
Even the Fabspeed Supercups give very little extra power (the standard gear is not a significant restriction in the engine, from what I know) - if you're happy with the sound your car makes then why bother changing them? There isn't any instant BHP gain whatsoever but you'll pay more insurance-wise.
The other aspect of aftermarket exhausts - weight loss - is probably only applicable to things like the Supercups. Both Robin Sun boxes, Fabspeed Maxflos and the Cargraphic boxes I have weigh near as much as the OEM equipment.
I personally reckon the 993 was built oversilenced, and that noisy pipes really unlock the character of the car - I can understand how ex-TVR owners think some Porsches are too smooth and characterless, but the Porker flat six is one of the all time greatest engines and is fantastically charismatic when not smothered
If you also want to hear the engine sing a little more, do try to experience a few of the options - the RSR pipes come highly recommended, but so do the Fabspeed Maxflo and the Cargraphic pipes - and they all sound distinctively different, you may find you particularly like one more than the others.
Sorry for long post, it's a typical beer-fuelled ramble about Porsches
If you want to hear the Cargraphic silencers and you're near Kent then mail me, I'd be happy to help (though the rest of my car isn't exactly standard)"Since the 993 has separate silencer boxes and tailpipe ends, it's perfectly possible to have modified boxes with standard tailpipes, looking OEM from the outside (and of course vice versa, Porsche's 'motorsound' 993 kit was a drilled airbox and some shiny tailpipe ends - retaining the standard silencer boxes)..."
I have the last option...drilled airbox and shiiiiney ends ( ooo-er missus ) and the sound is fine..a low down rumble at idle and a great wail at revs. Try this first it may be all you'll ever need. If not listen to some cargraphics etc...I did the drilling myself so no cost there.
I have the last option...drilled airbox and shiiiiney ends ( ooo-er missus ) and the sound is fine..a low down rumble at idle and a great wail at revs. Try this first it may be all you'll ever need. If not listen to some cargraphics etc...I did the drilling myself so no cost there.
paultje said:
I did the drilling myself so no cost there.
IIRC, the standard 'non-motorsound' airbox has moulding marks on the plastic inside for where the holes should be cut to make the 'motorsound' airbox.
In other words, incredibly easy to do yourself, as Paul says - no black magic required!
My current 993 had a home-drilled airbox when I bought it (the induction gear is now in the attic) - one of the previous owners had simply cut out the holes Porsche had generously marked. Nice of them to do this, given how much Porsche originally charged for the Motorsound airbox cover (€90 currently at Carnewal)! The 'real' motorsound airbox cover has a metallic finish where the inlet pipe joins the box.
I think there was some lively discussion on Rennlist regarding whether a drilled airbox reduces performance (allegedly due to hotter air being preferably sucked through the holes rather than cool air from the airbox input pipe)... personally I reckon it's irrelevant, at least on the road (I guess even 0.25 bhp is important if you're racing). The 'original' MS airbox has many small holes (drillable with a normal bit) - you could almost certainly achieve the same effect with fewer larger holes if you have a hole cutter suitable for plastic.
FWIW, when I called the Ninemeister regarding tuning options for a bog-standard non-vario 993, Colin never mentioned the issue of silencer boxes or airboxes. At the time, the worthwhile bolt-on options were live remap, full-on management change (MoTeC) or supercharger. This gentleman produces rather crazy power from the N/A engine (more than my supercharged one, no less) so as far as I'm concerned, exhausts and filters are irrelevant for performance. Exhausts, particularly at usually >£500 for the set, are poor value if you're just looking for power (though RSRs are a damn sight cheaper and this is a large reason for their popularity). Mind you, he did convince me to buy his supercharger so take this as you will
The exhaust, IMO more than the airbox, is essential for noise though, so choose whatever you like the sound of.
IIRC all 993 silencers (including OEM) are stainless steel so longevity should be comparable. The silencer retaining straps and bolts do corrode though, as do the bolts on the pipe clamps, but pretty much any mechanic can change silencers on a 993. A mate at the local Peugeot (!) fitting shop put the Supercups on mine, had no problems. I believe VS did his himself - should be easy enough if you've got a ramp.
** If I'm wrong on any of this detail then *please* do correct me, or I'll be spouting this shite to all my mates with 993s and making an arse of myself. Seems that the 993 has recently become desirable to a bunch of my friends who previously dismissed them... and having had 3 of the beauties I could do without embarrassing myself by peddling duff information...
Whoops - just spotted one potential gotcha... I do remember the 'Motorsound' option as being *only* a drilled airbox and nice big shiny exhaust tips (and this is also what it says in my old Tequipment brochure my OPC gave me when I was a young dreamer before I got my first 2nd hand 993). It's also what Carnewal lists as the 'Motorsound Package'.
However the Carnewal website also lists 'Motorsound mufflers' that 'come on the car when equiped (sic) with the Motorsound option' - which are stated to be more free flowing.
I hadn't heard of these before and they weren't listed on my ancient brochure. Perhaps they were factory-fit options-list items (like you could order a normal 993 with the 3.8 RS engine if you really wanted, and had loads of money). At €795 per pair inc shipping, they are significantly cheaper than the aftermarket competitors, but more expensive than RSRs. RSRs however are sold on an exchange basis.
Anyone here own (or heard) these presumably official Porsche sport silencers? I always thought Porsche GB didn't offer a 'proper' road-legal sports silencer for the 993?? (perhaps it was a Euro option only and Gert (is it still him?) can supply them being in Belgium)
If you've got these, then there's probably little point in buying anything else unless you want to drown out TVRs with some Supercups Equally, if they are factory fit options then someone, somewhere will know the factory option code and it'll be easy to ascertain whether you have them or not.
However the Carnewal website also lists 'Motorsound mufflers' that 'come on the car when equiped (sic) with the Motorsound option' - which are stated to be more free flowing.
I hadn't heard of these before and they weren't listed on my ancient brochure. Perhaps they were factory-fit options-list items (like you could order a normal 993 with the 3.8 RS engine if you really wanted, and had loads of money). At €795 per pair inc shipping, they are significantly cheaper than the aftermarket competitors, but more expensive than RSRs. RSRs however are sold on an exchange basis.
Anyone here own (or heard) these presumably official Porsche sport silencers? I always thought Porsche GB didn't offer a 'proper' road-legal sports silencer for the 993?? (perhaps it was a Euro option only and Gert (is it still him?) can supply them being in Belgium)
If you've got these, then there's probably little point in buying anything else unless you want to drown out TVRs with some Supercups
Equally, if they are factory fit options then someone, somewhere will know the factory option code and it'll be easy to ascertain whether you have them or not.cyberface said:
I did the drilling myself so no cost there.
I believe VS did his himself - should be easy enough if you've got a ramp.
I did mine myself with a pair of axle stands and a trolley jack. It's not rocket science and immensely satisfying.
Finally as a testament to the RSRs, a Petrol Head work colleague recently collared me and said "is that a 911 I saw you in? The exhaust sounded absolutely glorious as you accelerated away. What sort of system have you got on it?"
pp
I bought a set of RSR's and 'because I could' - cut them open to have a look at the modification. Not surprised there is a weight reduction as there's b....r all inside. The mod is a bit brutal and basic but effective - once 'tig'd back together you wouldn't or shouldn't be able to tell a modied box from a std version. However having no baffles, no diffusser pipe or wool certainley makes them sound better. I sold the RSR's on and modified my original set of boxes adding something inside so creating the RSB's (so as not infringe anyones design (?)). These were left on my 4S when it went. Don't know who bought it, but if it's a Artic Silver 98 car with Turbo S side scoops - it's one of mine!
GPM
GPM
gpm3d said:
The mod is easy (if you have workshop access with a TIG set). The complete box is gutted internally and the two pipes cut back to about 100mm - brutal not very technical but effective!
If i could, i'd include a photo!
BUMP.If i could, i'd include a photo!
Is the above true. If I can get a friendly TIG welder to open and then weld back up (They are not seen so not to worried how the finish looks) my 993 mufflers, can I really save 400 euros?
Has anybody done this themselves and any pics? Any idea what is mean't by 'two pipes cut back to about 100MM'
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