Discussion
[quote=BBC News]
Ministers 'deal on smoking ban'
Ministers are heading towards agreement over plans for a smoking ban in pubs and restaurants in England.
Under the terms of the deal, smoking will be banned in enclosed public places and work places from 2007.
Private clubs will be exempt from the ban and separate "smoking rooms" will be allowed in pubs not selling food.
The Health Improvement Bill will be published tomorrow. A spokesman said "one or two" ministers dealing with the proposals still needed to be consulted.
'Practical issues'
The breakthrough comes after days of wrangling between ministers.
A Downing Street spokesman said: "Smoking is a genuinely difficult issue ... which people come to from different perspectives."
Details on how the smoking rooms will work, will be decided after a three month consultation process, and set down in regulations.
The decision to exclude private clubs from the ban will be seen as a victory for Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt's predecessor John Reid, now defence secretary.
Earlier this month the government dropped plans he had put forward as health secretary of a partial ban, which excluded pubs and clubs which did not serve food.
Ministers said consultations had suggested the idea of a partial ban would be too hard to enforce and fail to meet health fears.
But there has been opposition to the idea of "smoking rooms": Labour's Dr Howard Stoate, a member of the Commons health committee, told BBC's Five Live that only a total smoking ban would be truly effective.
And Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell was seen to be leading criticism of the loophole allowing only "smoking carriage" rooms where staff would not work.
Trade unions have also opposed the move, saying that bar staff will still have to inhale smoke when they clean the special rooms.
Lib Dem health spokesman Steve Webb said: "It will only increase health inequalities to exempt pubs that do not serve food from this legislation."
Dr Vivienne Nathanson, head of science and ethics at the BMA, told BBC Radio 4's PM programme the proposals were "a huge step forward for the nation's health", but she feared they were "unworkable".
Former health secretary Frank Dobson told BBC Radio 4's World at One: "Obviously there are one or two people who don't like the clear straightforward, clean break policy of saying that there'll be a total ban on smoking in all public places.
"But my view is if you can do it in the bars of Dublin, as the Irish have done, you can do it anywhere."
A ban on smoking in all enclosed public places will begin in Scotland next March. Northern Ireland has also agreed a ban and one is already in place in the Republic of Ireland.
The plans are causing concern among publicans.
The Federation of Licensed Victuallers' Associations, which represents self-employed licensees, says a ban could mean a 10% fall in business.
The British Beer and Pubs Association wants limits on smoking at bars to be phased in.
But the British Medical Association is still pushing for a complete ban with no exceptions. [/quote]
Absolutely delighted, I can't wait :)
Ministers 'deal on smoking ban'
Ministers are heading towards agreement over plans for a smoking ban in pubs and restaurants in England.
Under the terms of the deal, smoking will be banned in enclosed public places and work places from 2007.
Private clubs will be exempt from the ban and separate "smoking rooms" will be allowed in pubs not selling food.
The Health Improvement Bill will be published tomorrow. A spokesman said "one or two" ministers dealing with the proposals still needed to be consulted.
'Practical issues'
The breakthrough comes after days of wrangling between ministers.
A Downing Street spokesman said: "Smoking is a genuinely difficult issue ... which people come to from different perspectives."
Details on how the smoking rooms will work, will be decided after a three month consultation process, and set down in regulations.
The decision to exclude private clubs from the ban will be seen as a victory for Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt's predecessor John Reid, now defence secretary.
Earlier this month the government dropped plans he had put forward as health secretary of a partial ban, which excluded pubs and clubs which did not serve food.
Ministers said consultations had suggested the idea of a partial ban would be too hard to enforce and fail to meet health fears.
But there has been opposition to the idea of "smoking rooms": Labour's Dr Howard Stoate, a member of the Commons health committee, told BBC's Five Live that only a total smoking ban would be truly effective.
And Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell was seen to be leading criticism of the loophole allowing only "smoking carriage" rooms where staff would not work.
Trade unions have also opposed the move, saying that bar staff will still have to inhale smoke when they clean the special rooms.
Lib Dem health spokesman Steve Webb said: "It will only increase health inequalities to exempt pubs that do not serve food from this legislation."
Dr Vivienne Nathanson, head of science and ethics at the BMA, told BBC Radio 4's PM programme the proposals were "a huge step forward for the nation's health", but she feared they were "unworkable".
Former health secretary Frank Dobson told BBC Radio 4's World at One: "Obviously there are one or two people who don't like the clear straightforward, clean break policy of saying that there'll be a total ban on smoking in all public places.
"But my view is if you can do it in the bars of Dublin, as the Irish have done, you can do it anywhere."
A ban on smoking in all enclosed public places will begin in Scotland next March. Northern Ireland has also agreed a ban and one is already in place in the Republic of Ireland.
The plans are causing concern among publicans.
The Federation of Licensed Victuallers' Associations, which represents self-employed licensees, says a ban could mean a 10% fall in business.
The British Beer and Pubs Association wants limits on smoking at bars to be phased in.
But the British Medical Association is still pushing for a complete ban with no exceptions. [/quote]
Absolutely delighted, I can't wait :)
My Mrs went out for lunch with her friends today. They decided upon a pub that allready has a smoking ban. Despite one of the group being a smoker, she commented that the meal was enjoyed alot more by everyone. She also said that it was nice to return home and not listen to me complaining about her stinking of fag smoke. 
edit cos I is thick!
>> Edited by zetec on Tuesday 25th October 18:57
edit cos I is thick!
>> Edited by zetec on Tuesday 25th October 18:57
BliarOut said:
I can feel the workarounds being planned as you gloat 
I wonder if it will be as effective as the fox hunting ban?
Due to the very nature of the ban I suspect it will be harder to get circumvent the ban as fox hunting is a far more isolated activity.
I suspect a lot of places serving food won't have a smoking room as many pubs are simply too small for this to be workable.
The main get out will be private members clubs such as Sports Clubs, Snooker halls, Football grounds. It depends how the act is eventually worded.
! I hadn't thought of that. zetec said:
My Mrs went out for lunch with her friends today. They decided upon a pub that allready has a smoking ban. Despite one of the group being a smoker, she commented that the meal was enjoyed alot more by everyone. She also said that it was nice to return home and not listen to me complaining about her stinking of fag smoke.
edit cos I is thick!
>> Edited by zetec on Tuesday 25th October 18:57
My sentiments exactly down to a "T". There is actually another site somewhere on PH on this subject.
All pubs should have smoking rooms for the smokers.................in the carpark.....
munky said:
If you don't like smoke, don't go in pubs. Stay indoors with your lentil soup and recharge your electric cars.
Here we go again folks, but its absolutely no problem the ban is coming, watch this space...........
Oh and enjoy the BT&P piss up, coz next year, well you never know, might be smoke free............
>> Edited by Vipers on Wednesday 26th October 02:16
I've a question though - if so many people are against smoking in pubs, then why aren't there more non-smoking pubs? Surely more landlords would spot the profit incentive of luring in all the non smokers and make a killing? I only know of 1 such pub in London, hardly a resounding vote for a ban.
I'm just against (in general, not just this topic) (1) nanny state intervention, and believe that market forces should decide, and (2) that one section of society shouldn't be able to impose their tastes on another by law. Note that this counts both ways - i.e. I agree those who are anti smoking should have somewhere to avoid smoke just as I believe those who want to should be able to.
Therefore if the law is to be used, there are other options that suit everyone rather than a complete ban which is a rather simple minded 'solution' to the problem. For instance, you have mandatory non-smoking rooms in all pubs, or have a licensing system just as there is for selling alcohol. Bars with high ceilings which demonstrate very good air filtration systems get a licence, small or old airless pubs don't. Problem solved, without either side imposing their views on the other.
If you live in a city, the traffic pollution will get you far quicker than passive smoking. In fact to draw a parallel in the car world, cars pollute, so why not ban them all? Or ban them all from all cities? Because instead there's a more sensible approach, i.e. excessively polluting cars are banned via the MOT emissions test.
If BTaP goes non smoking, I wager that quite a few people will boycott it. How many non smokers boycott it currently because smoking is allowed?
As for the ban coming, well we know that a number of members of both upper and lower houses of parliament are on the boards of tobacco firms so we'll see.
Now, where's my lighter..
I'm just against (in general, not just this topic) (1) nanny state intervention, and believe that market forces should decide, and (2) that one section of society shouldn't be able to impose their tastes on another by law. Note that this counts both ways - i.e. I agree those who are anti smoking should have somewhere to avoid smoke just as I believe those who want to should be able to.
Therefore if the law is to be used, there are other options that suit everyone rather than a complete ban which is a rather simple minded 'solution' to the problem. For instance, you have mandatory non-smoking rooms in all pubs, or have a licensing system just as there is for selling alcohol. Bars with high ceilings which demonstrate very good air filtration systems get a licence, small or old airless pubs don't. Problem solved, without either side imposing their views on the other.
If you live in a city, the traffic pollution will get you far quicker than passive smoking. In fact to draw a parallel in the car world, cars pollute, so why not ban them all? Or ban them all from all cities? Because instead there's a more sensible approach, i.e. excessively polluting cars are banned via the MOT emissions test.
If BTaP goes non smoking, I wager that quite a few people will boycott it. How many non smokers boycott it currently because smoking is allowed?
As for the ban coming, well we know that a number of members of both upper and lower houses of parliament are on the boards of tobacco firms so we'll see.
Now, where's my lighter..
More b****y "Nanny State" rubbish!!!
Whatever happened to freedom of choice?
People who choose to smoke, people who choose not to. What is all this 'hot air' about protecting people who work where people are smoking (pubs etc)?
It is not as if they are herded in off the street and forced to work there, they do voluntarily apply for the jobs? Why don't they go and work elsewhere?? There are plenty of options other than Pub/Resaturant etc.
Why can't more effective smoking and non-smoking areas be provided so that people CAN CHOOSE!!
Rather than all being dictated to by the fools in Downing Street!!
Whatever happened to freedom of choice?
People who choose to smoke, people who choose not to. What is all this 'hot air' about protecting people who work where people are smoking (pubs etc)?
It is not as if they are herded in off the street and forced to work there, they do voluntarily apply for the jobs? Why don't they go and work elsewhere?? There are plenty of options other than Pub/Resaturant etc.
Why can't more effective smoking and non-smoking areas be provided so that people CAN CHOOSE!!
Rather than all being dictated to by the fools in Downing Street!!
Its not just pubs, its public places. Personally as I have said on the other post on this subject, smokers should be allowed to do what they like, as long as it doesnt infringe on those who choose not to smoke.
There is enough undisputable evidence to state that smoking damages your health, both smokers and passive smokers, unborn children etc.
It makes your cloths stink, residue of cigeretts is smoke, reside of drinking is p**s, I dont go around p***ing on smokers, why should I have to inhale their smoke.
The other posts on this was long enough, but at the end of the day, it will be banned in public places. Pubs that do not sell food may be exempt, as will be private clubs, I doubt that it will put a stop to the BT&P piss up, you may even enjoy it more. Anyway what on earth posesses folk to buy things with messages on the side like THIS WILL KILL YOU.
Buses are non smoking, planes have been for some time, doesnt seem to have curbed air travel does it,
How many of this web site members fly on holiday, and are smokers, so it cant be that bad can it?????
Question, a lot of members seem to be TVR owners, DO YOU ALL SMOKE IN YOUR CARS? if not, why not?
Any each day, is a day nearer. All they have to is segregate in pubs, and both sides will be happy.
But I would be interested in how many members here dont fly coz they cant smoke, and how many DO smoke in their beloved TVR's or any other cars for that matter?
There is enough undisputable evidence to state that smoking damages your health, both smokers and passive smokers, unborn children etc.
It makes your cloths stink, residue of cigeretts is smoke, reside of drinking is p**s, I dont go around p***ing on smokers, why should I have to inhale their smoke.
The other posts on this was long enough, but at the end of the day, it will be banned in public places. Pubs that do not sell food may be exempt, as will be private clubs, I doubt that it will put a stop to the BT&P piss up, you may even enjoy it more. Anyway what on earth posesses folk to buy things with messages on the side like THIS WILL KILL YOU.
Buses are non smoking, planes have been for some time, doesnt seem to have curbed air travel does it,
How many of this web site members fly on holiday, and are smokers, so it cant be that bad can it?????
Question, a lot of members seem to be TVR owners, DO YOU ALL SMOKE IN YOUR CARS? if not, why not?
Any each day, is a day nearer. All they have to is segregate in pubs, and both sides will be happy.
But I would be interested in how many members here dont fly coz they cant smoke, and how many DO smoke in their beloved TVR's or any other cars for that matter?
Muncher said:
[quote=BBC News]
Ministers 'deal on sports cars ban'
Ministers are heading towards agreement over plans for a sports car ban on public roads in England.
Under the terms of the deal, sports cars will be banned on public roads from 2007.
Private race tracks will be exempt from the ban and separate scrap yards will be set up to receive the influx of banned vehicles.
The Air Improvement Bill will be published tomorrow. A spokesman said "one or two" ministers dealing with the proposals still needed to be consulted.
'Practical issues'
The breakthrough comes after days of wrangling between ministers.
A Downing Street spokesman said: "Sports cars are a genuinely difficult issue ... which people come to from different perspectives."
Details on how the scrap yards will work, will be decided after a three month consultation process, and set down in regulations.
The decision to exclude private race tracks from the ban will be seen as a victory for Dr Jonathon Palmer and Bernie Ecclestone.
Everyone still happy?
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