900 BHP for £120k
Discussion
The speed 12 is an awesome machine and shatteringly fast. It also sounds fantastic. I think it (like F40s) are overpriced for what they are, but that's because I don't like paying more for rarity (tell me why I should care). Tempting though- I mean no-one's going to accuse you of being a hairdresser are they?
For 140K you could buy a proper racing car, like a group-c sportscar. I know that the TVR looks pretty cool but I doubt it really has 900bhp. I wouldn't even think of trying to use it on a regular basis cos TVR will charge the earth for spares, and reliability would be less than sh*te with that funny one-off v12 in it.
Sounds cool to me. It's as strong as you like, engineered like no other TVR (and I mean that, it really is rather nicely screwed together - ever seen the shut lines on an F40...? 
) and features perhaps not a 900bhp motor, but it's certainly the exciting side of 800bhp. This is the same motor that burned out a very expensive McLaren F1 carbon clutch within minutes of going on the dyno and the same motor that's basically two speed sixes welded together, so parts aren't an issue unless you crack the block or snap the crank. It's a nice piece and trust me, they aren't making any money at £120k...
) and features perhaps not a 900bhp motor, but it's certainly the exciting side of 800bhp. This is the same motor that burned out a very expensive McLaren F1 carbon clutch within minutes of going on the dyno and the same motor that's basically two speed sixes welded together, so parts aren't an issue unless you crack the block or snap the crank. It's a nice piece and trust me, they aren't making any money at £120k...Very interesting and very unlike TVR ( Wheeler ). My understanding was that TVR had dropped the roadgoing Cerbera Speed 12 so if they are selling one of the only road going cars in existence tends to suggest to me that cash is in short supply. The orginal price target for these cars was £150K so at £120 + VAT its more expensive than originally intended. Personally, being a TVR and a Ferrari owner, I wouldn't touch it, especially in comparison with an F40. TVR's are nice cars but engineering wise they are leagues behind Ferrari and a one off would undoubtedly be nothing but trouble.
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Monday 11th November 20:29
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Monday 11th November 20:29
For cache value, you're realistically gonna take the F40, either to run or collect, but for those that'll dare stick their neck out to be different, the TVR will be great. When I said it was nicely built, I really meant it. The cars not a load of welded tubes, it's honeycomb aluminium sandwich and beautifully machined and anodised aluminium parts. Seen the carbon fibre on the F40...? - some of the most apalling I've ever seen. I've done better layup myself on kayaks...! Take a look at the Speed 12's carbon. Okay, it's not structural like the F40 (but then TVR can't afford a 'kin great autoclave or the time in one) but the layup is beautiful. It really is nothing like the roadcars and nothing like the bodge that the original Speed Twelve was.
I don't expect it will lose a lot of value, neither will the Ferrari, and as a safe bet, you'd still take the F40, but it you want something that's very different, and a rather nice piece of engineering then you'd take the TVR. Because it's virtually a one off, they've not had to productionise it like with the F40. So many of the parts are beatufully CNC'd that would probably be a plastic mold on the Ferarri.
Show me a reliable 800bhp Ferrari and I'll agree they're better engineered. The F40's in GT running about 600bhp under the old BPR rules used to go bang quite regularly. Don't the current GT Ferraris keep breaking down...? Those 355's and 360's either weren't fast or blew up or both, don't think I remember one ever finishing a race. The latest 550 is quite nice and seems to be reliable though. The TVR V12 had it's problems in the early days, but they are effectively completely resolved and the motor is good for big reliable power. I wouldn't fancy having to get a spare crank or block, because there won't be one, but the rest is just about all Speed Six. As for running costs, really we're comparing a road car with a race car. A chap I know had his racing McLaren F1 engine rebuilt while he visited family abroad as it had a slight oil pressure problem. When he got back, the bill was almost £125,000 - the price of the TVR alone. If that's what full on GT race cars cost, then the TVR is seriously cheap. Okay, it's not a McLaren, but the McLaren engine's only a couple of 3 litre M3 motors welded up just like the TVR's is a couple of 4 litre Sixes...
Comparing like with like, it's a nice package for the money. You wouldn't want to drive it on the road mind, it's probably absolutely dreadful...!
Been in an F40 round Brands and it was good fun, but given the choice between a road car with a fantastic chassis and a blown 3 litre V8 and a race car with an 8 litre V12. Well, I'm a sucker for cubic inches...!
I don't expect it will lose a lot of value, neither will the Ferrari, and as a safe bet, you'd still take the F40, but it you want something that's very different, and a rather nice piece of engineering then you'd take the TVR. Because it's virtually a one off, they've not had to productionise it like with the F40. So many of the parts are beatufully CNC'd that would probably be a plastic mold on the Ferarri.
Show me a reliable 800bhp Ferrari and I'll agree they're better engineered. The F40's in GT running about 600bhp under the old BPR rules used to go bang quite regularly. Don't the current GT Ferraris keep breaking down...? Those 355's and 360's either weren't fast or blew up or both, don't think I remember one ever finishing a race. The latest 550 is quite nice and seems to be reliable though. The TVR V12 had it's problems in the early days, but they are effectively completely resolved and the motor is good for big reliable power. I wouldn't fancy having to get a spare crank or block, because there won't be one, but the rest is just about all Speed Six. As for running costs, really we're comparing a road car with a race car. A chap I know had his racing McLaren F1 engine rebuilt while he visited family abroad as it had a slight oil pressure problem. When he got back, the bill was almost £125,000 - the price of the TVR alone. If that's what full on GT race cars cost, then the TVR is seriously cheap. Okay, it's not a McLaren, but the McLaren engine's only a couple of 3 litre M3 motors welded up just like the TVR's is a couple of 4 litre Sixes...
Comparing like with like, it's a nice package for the money. You wouldn't want to drive it on the road mind, it's probably absolutely dreadful...!
Been in an F40 round Brands and it was good fun, but given the choice between a road car with a fantastic chassis and a blown 3 litre V8 and a race car with an 8 litre V12. Well, I'm a sucker for cubic inches...!
frostie said: Very interesting and very unlike TVR ( Wheeler ). My understanding was that TVR had dropped the roadgoing Cerbera Speed 12 so if they are selling one of the only road going cars in existence tends to suggest to me that cash is in short supply. The orginal price target for these cars was £150K so at £120 + VAT its more expensive than originally intended. Personally, being a TVR and a Ferrari owner, I wouldn't touch it, especially in comparison with an F40. TVR's are nice cars but engineering wise they are leagues behind Ferrari and a one off would undoubtedly be nothing but trouble.
Frostie
>> Edited by frostie on Monday 11th November 20:29
TVR arent selling the car, its a private owner (who I think orginally worked on the design of the car).
Hmmm, glad to see you prancing ponies are as passionate about your cars as tvr owners are
But the F40 is a pony in comparison to the beast.....me thinks you lot are scared of 800BHP!! (he he he he he)
and whats this about parts...... it would be cheaper to have whole new components fabricated than it would be to buy the equivalent part for an F40, especially as alot of them are standard.
I could harp on all day, but Ive got work to do, unlike most pony drivers......sorry couldnt resist that one.
Hmmm, glad to see you prancing ponies are as passionate about your cars as tvr owners are
But the F40 is a pony in comparison to the beast.....me thinks you lot are scared of 800BHP!! (he he he he he)
and whats this about parts...... it would be cheaper to have whole new components fabricated than it would be to buy the equivalent part for an F40, especially as alot of them are standard.
I could harp on all day, but Ive got work to do, unlike most pony drivers......sorry couldnt resist that one.
Call me crazy, but somehow I have doubts about this TVRs reliability. Parts for an F40 or parts for a 288GTO are not as expensive as you think-and these are from Ferrari UK directly. Yes TVR parts may be cheaper but if this car is going to spend most of its life being repaired then the bills are going to start adding up. The F40s build quality is pretty good and rememember we are talking about a 15 year old car-it is also surprisingly easy to work on-most peole expect it to be a very difficult car to repair/maintain.
Im not knocking this TVR it is probably a great car but TVRs reliability is a big issue especially when paying £140k.
Im not knocking this TVR it is probably a great car but TVRs reliability is a big issue especially when paying £140k.
I agree with the Ajaym and a lot of the other opinions expressed about TVR's reliabilty. As a former TVR Tuscan owner (now converted to the 550M), the reliability of the car is a really big problem. There is no way I would shell out that kind of money on the beast because it would be in the garage every single week guaranteed (and thats no exaggeration). I bought mine new, only drove it hard at weekends and I had: drivers seat unable to stay loacted in one position (same day I bought it), reverse lights coming on at 80mph, break lights refusing to disengage, speedos refusing to work (never fixed), snapped throttle, EFI fuel pump problems, faulty 18inch wheels (which causes the tyre pressure of fall), snapped rear axle, doors not opening properly, aircon unit fall out on its wires (twice).
All this on a car I brought from new and owned for a year. Great sounding car, goes like stink but the lack of quality contol makes you scared to drive it to its limits. I don't think I would want to drive the Speed 12 hard either. Would anyone else???
>> Edited by itecsol on Tuesday 12th November 12:10
>> Edited by itecsol on Tuesday 12th November 12:11
All this on a car I brought from new and owned for a year. Great sounding car, goes like stink but the lack of quality contol makes you scared to drive it to its limits. I don't think I would want to drive the Speed 12 hard either. Would anyone else???
>> Edited by itecsol on Tuesday 12th November 12:10
>> Edited by itecsol on Tuesday 12th November 12:11
No - NOT for CACHE value would I take the F40....
I would take it because it's the purest expression of pure driving as interpreted by Enzo Ferrari himself - it's HIS last car- what am I saying? It's one of the greatest drivers cars of all time...
The V8 twin-turbo is mechanically VERY straight forward and endlessly reliable actually. The extreme turbo-rush power delivery of the F40 is the stuff of legend and one of the biggest thrills in motoring... Moreover it's one of the most seminal and beautifully brutal car designs on earth.. (who cares about shutlines...)
If the last 10th of a second on a road car is THAT important then you can reliably have it running at around 600hp with some VERY straightforward tweaks.. Add a few Michelloto parts and it's getting very close to weighing under a tonne... for £200K - the 520hp Michelloto F40 that www.talacrest.com have, could probably outrun Enzo with a flick of a boost pressure dial...
£120k may buy 900hp
But £165K on a Ferrari F40 buys you a legend.
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 12th November 12:21
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 12th November 12:22
I would take it because it's the purest expression of pure driving as interpreted by Enzo Ferrari himself - it's HIS last car- what am I saying? It's one of the greatest drivers cars of all time...
The V8 twin-turbo is mechanically VERY straight forward and endlessly reliable actually. The extreme turbo-rush power delivery of the F40 is the stuff of legend and one of the biggest thrills in motoring... Moreover it's one of the most seminal and beautifully brutal car designs on earth.. (who cares about shutlines...)
If the last 10th of a second on a road car is THAT important then you can reliably have it running at around 600hp with some VERY straightforward tweaks.. Add a few Michelloto parts and it's getting very close to weighing under a tonne... for £200K - the 520hp Michelloto F40 that www.talacrest.com have, could probably outrun Enzo with a flick of a boost pressure dial...
£120k may buy 900hp
But £165K on a Ferrari F40 buys you a legend.
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 12th November 12:21
>> Edited by manu on Tuesday 12th November 12:22
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