Using phone wires for Ethernet?
Discussion
I’ve got a house alarm main box located in a place where it can’t get a WiFi signal. It used to use a teledialler to notify me when the alarm was triggered, but that is now redundant (no phone line). The replacement notification system requires internet access, ideally via a wired connection.
It’s going to be an absolute mission to get a new wired cable to this location. But there is the old phone cable which happens to have the other endpoint right next to the router.
I know normally Ethernet cable is twisted pair and that gigabit needs all 8 pins connected, but over a short run of ~10m, could I use 4 wires from the phone cable and get a viable 10/100Mbps link?
It’s going to be an absolute mission to get a new wired cable to this location. But there is the old phone cable which happens to have the other endpoint right next to the router.
I know normally Ethernet cable is twisted pair and that gigabit needs all 8 pins connected, but over a short run of ~10m, could I use 4 wires from the phone cable and get a viable 10/100Mbps link?
Have you tried a powerline to Ethernet adapter?
I use TP-Link ones to get ethernet up to my home office as the work laptop sucks on wifi.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4010KIT-Powerline-Co...
Faster ones are available.
I use TP-Link ones to get ethernet up to my home office as the work laptop sucks on wifi.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4010KIT-Powerline-Co...
Faster ones are available.
PhilboSE said:
I know normally Ethernet cable is twisted pair and that gigabit needs all 8 pins connected, but over a short run of ~10m, could I use 4 wires from the phone cable and get a viable 10/100Mbps link?
The only way you'll find out is by trying it. Fundamentally, the differences between the different "Cats" of cable is their ability to carry a signal without that signal being damaged by extraneous electrical noise that can get into the cable. That noise might be from mains cables, wifi devices, fluorescent lights, your fridge or anything else.As with weak wifi, you might find that sometimes the cable works better than at other times.
"If you have data equipment that supports speeds of more than a gigabit, you will not get the most out of the network by using CAT5e cabling. It would be more efficient to use CAT6 and CAT6A cabling. You should also think about how you will be using the internet. Streaming movies, video conferencing, and high-volume downloads require a high-speed internet connection."
"Older networks like 10/100 Mbps Fast Ethernet only needed 2 pairs (4 wires)—one pair to transmit data and another to receive it. Modern Gigabit Ethernet (1000 Mbps and higher) uses all 4 pairs (8 wires) simultaneously for bidirectional communication across every pair."
Might be overkill but Unifi have a PoE Over 2-Wire Retrofit Extender. I think it's primarily targetted at doorbell installations but sounds like it will do what you want.
Thanks all.
Using a power line adapter is likely to be a bit of a pain, would need to run a spur to make a socket, and the alarm is on a different ring to the router at the consumer unit, and I’ve found issues when the power line adapters are on different rings.
I have all the gear to make off a patch cable so I’ll give it a go with the phone wire, as mentioned above it’s got a chance, especially as no-one has said it’ll definitely not work!
Using a power line adapter is likely to be a bit of a pain, would need to run a spur to make a socket, and the alarm is on a different ring to the router at the consumer unit, and I’ve found issues when the power line adapters are on different rings.
I have all the gear to make off a patch cable so I’ll give it a go with the phone wire, as mentioned above it’s got a chance, especially as no-one has said it’ll definitely not work!
PhilboSE said:
Thanks all.
Using a power line adapter is likely to be a bit of a pain, would need to run a spur to make a socket, and the alarm is on a different ring to the router at the consumer unit, and I ve found issues when the power line adapters are on different rings.
I have all the gear to make off a patch cable so I ll give it a go with the phone wire, as mentioned above it s got a chance, especially as no-one has said it ll definitely not work!
The biggest difference between cw1308 (phone wire) and, say Cat 5, is the number of twists per metre in each pair. 5 vs 150-200.Using a power line adapter is likely to be a bit of a pain, would need to run a spur to make a socket, and the alarm is on a different ring to the router at the consumer unit, and I ve found issues when the power line adapters are on different rings.
I have all the gear to make off a patch cable so I ll give it a go with the phone wire, as mentioned above it s got a chance, especially as no-one has said it ll definitely not work!
To give it the best chance, make sure you use the pairs correctly, so that you get the best possible noise rejection. It's still rubbish really, but for a short run it's worth a shot.
https://www.fscables.com/other/useful_links/colour...
If it turns out to be pants, you can always try something else, this costs you nowt but a little time.
No reason it absolutely won't work given original ethernet and phone unshield twisted pair cables were basically the same thing, but we're talking in the 10Mbps days and some phone cable is utter crap but on a short run you might get lucky.
It might work, it might not, not losing out too much by trying.
Only question in my mind is how much fallback modern kit has with really bad cable! Is dropping to a 10Mbps link even supported??
It might work, it might not, not losing out too much by trying.
Only question in my mind is how much fallback modern kit has with really bad cable! Is dropping to a 10Mbps link even supported??
Did this in our house. Had a spare phone wire already running from near the router to a bedroom which didn't have an Ethernet connection. Bought some of the special wire crimpers and clips etc from Ebay and job done. It runs 500GB over about 25 metres and emerges out at about 480GB so happy with that. Putting the little plugs on the wires is a fiddly job involving much swearing.
I've run ethernet OK over rubbishy phone cable. Ethernet only needs 4 wires for 10/100mbps (so you can actually get two independent ethernet connections in a normal cat 5 wire, which is sometimes helpful).
40m was pushing it for 100mbps, but dropping to 10mbps (with a managed switch) made it pretty reliable. I think you'll be absolutely fine with 10m, Ethernet is pretty resilient.
40m was pushing it for 100mbps, but dropping to 10mbps (with a managed switch) made it pretty reliable. I think you'll be absolutely fine with 10m, Ethernet is pretty resilient.
1690cc said:
Did this in our house. Had a spare phone wire already running from near the router to a bedroom which didn't have an Ethernet connection. Bought some of the special wire crimpers and clips etc from Ebay and job done. It runs 500GB over about 25 metres and emerges out at about 480GB so happy with that. Putting the little plugs on the wires is a fiddly job involving much swearing.
Cheers, that’s positive that it’s been known to work. My phone cable is relatively new and the run should be short, so hopefully I’ve got a chance. I’ve made off hundreds of gigabit and Cat 6 connections so that shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve even made off 10-Base T, but I don’t think I’ll go there… PhilboSE said:
I ve got a house alarm main box located in a place where it can t get a WiFi signal. It used to use a teledialler to notify me when the alarm was triggered, but that is now redundant (no phone line). The replacement notification system requires internet access, ideally via a wired connection.
It s going to be an absolute mission to get a new wired cable to this location. But there is the old phone cable which happens to have the other endpoint right next to the router.
I know normally Ethernet cable is twisted pair and that gigabit needs all 8 pins connected, but over a short run of ~10m, could I use 4 wires from the phone cable and get a viable 10/100Mbps link?
How much bandwidth do you actually need?It s going to be an absolute mission to get a new wired cable to this location. But there is the old phone cable which happens to have the other endpoint right next to the router.
I know normally Ethernet cable is twisted pair and that gigabit needs all 8 pins connected, but over a short run of ~10m, could I use 4 wires from the phone cable and get a viable 10/100Mbps link?
Back in the day, you could run wifi through a dodgy length of twisted pair and get hundreds of kbaud through tens of metres of cable without trying very hard. If you actually know what you're doing it will go a long way!
What you are describing is Giga Copper, it’s not cheap, but it does work.
https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
Greedydog said:
What you are describing is Giga Copper, it s not cheap, but it does work.
https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
Interesting stuff. You and I might say it’s not cheap, they say it’s inexpensive!https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
Might be an ultimate fallback option. I can’t use a mobile phone based solution as someone suggested above, as there’s no signal where this alarm box is.
Slap a big enough high gain antenna on WiFi or a 4g box (especially a directional one) and you'd be surprised where you can get a signal and from what. Especially if you've put the big antennas on both ends of the WiFi and got the transmit power set to the max supported.
And that's before you get to all the fun places you can stick an IP rated POE access point.
But squirting it down a phone cable should do something so give it a try.
And that's before you get to all the fun places you can stick an IP rated POE access point.
But squirting it down a phone cable should do something so give it a try.
PhilboSE said:
Greedydog said:
What you are describing is Giga Copper, it s not cheap, but it does work.
https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
Interesting stuff. You and I might say it s not cheap, they say it s inexpensive!https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/
Might be an ultimate fallback option. I can t use a mobile phone based solution as someone suggested above, as there s no signal where this alarm box is.
If their telephone cable equivalent works to the same specs as claimed it will be the best thing for the job.
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