Officers sacked over care home incident
Discussion
Pepper spray, taser and baton used on a 92 year old leg-amputee dementia patient who was sitting in a wheelchair his own room... What was the urgent and serious risk that he posed, just because he refused to surrender his dinner knife?
In a setting like that, unlikely they were giving sharp knives to the residents anyway - it certainly looks from the video like one of the chunky handle jobbies for people with arhtiris / poor grip so probably wasn't even much danger had he actually tried to use it on them.
Article goes on to say he then needed hospital treatment, where he contracted COVID and died 3 weeks later. And one of the officers said that he'd done nothing wrong and would have acted the same way if facing the situation again.
In a setting like that, unlikely they were giving sharp knives to the residents anyway - it certainly looks from the video like one of the chunky handle jobbies for people with arhtiris / poor grip so probably wasn't even much danger had he actually tried to use it on them.
Article goes on to say he then needed hospital treatment, where he contracted COVID and died 3 weeks later. And one of the officers said that he'd done nothing wrong and would have acted the same way if facing the situation again.
ED209 said:
A no win situation that they should never have been put in. Do nothing and the fella slices his jugular and bleeds out and they get sacked as well.
Nah. They could have walked in and taken it off him by hand or done literally nothing. There was no part of that which was no win.
Drawing your pepper spray within 10 seconds of entering the room is unlikely to de-escalate the situation.
These two were used to issuing orders to members of the public and being complied with, and didn't take the time to understand that an elderly person with dementia can very easily be confused and stubborn - and not inclined to do as they're told by anyone just because an order has been issued. Even less so once you spray an already confused and bewildered old person in the eyes with pepper spray.
His failure to immediately comply doesn't give them free reign to move in rapid order to tasing, macing and clobbering him.
These two were used to issuing orders to members of the public and being complied with, and didn't take the time to understand that an elderly person with dementia can very easily be confused and stubborn - and not inclined to do as they're told by anyone just because an order has been issued. Even less so once you spray an already confused and bewildered old person in the eyes with pepper spray.
His failure to immediately comply doesn't give them free reign to move in rapid order to tasing, macing and clobbering him.
Apart from the officers behavior once they arrived has there been any consideration of the actions of the care home? Why did they call police? What guidance do the staff have for taking such action? If the knife was dangerous why did the home provide it to someone suffering from dementia?
I would have been been very angry to hear that a vulnerable relative in a care home was being threatened with police attendance without a good reason.
I would have been been very angry to hear that a vulnerable relative in a care home was being threatened with police attendance without a good reason.
ED209 said:
A no win situation that they should never have been put in. Do nothing and the fella slices his jugular and bleeds out and they get sacked as well.
Give over.Bloke was so pathetic he couldn't knock a knife out of an arthritic pensioners hand, who was sitting in a wheelchair, who he'd already pepper sprayed, with a fully extended baton.
And then he doubled down and said he'd do it again!
You'd want him as your back up in an actual dangerous situation, would you?
He was liability to his colleagues and the public.
BikeBikeBIke said:
If the knife wasn't sharp why were the Police called at all?
It's a fair question. The article says it was his dinner knife, and it appears to be one of the ones with a chunky handle that's designed for people with arthritis or poor grip - i.e. knives intended for people who can't hold a knife well and are likely to slip whilst using it. Do you think those sort of knives would usually be razor sharp? Is a care home likely to give a sharp knife to an elderly dementia patient to eat his dinner with?
I'm thinking probably not. The care home were probably just at a loss as to what to do when the guy refused to hand it over.
But the disciplinary hearing also seems to suggest that the officers took very little time to talk to the care home staff when they arrived or consider what other action they could have taken (like leaving the guy on his own to calm down for a bit) before engaging in confrontation with him.
BikeBikeBIke said:
-Lummox- said:
Slices his jugular with what appears to be essentially a butter knife?
If the knife wasn't sharp why were the Police called at all?ED209 said:
A no win situation that they should never have been put in. Do nothing and the fella slices his jugular and bleeds out and they get sacked as well.
Didn't even give him 20 seconds to comply. Your namesake would have handled that situation with more empathy and compassion.Two despicable individuals that should really see some jail time.
-Lummox- said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
If the knife wasn't sharp why were the Police called at all?
It's a fair question. The article says it was his dinner knife, and it appears to be one of the ones with a chunky handle that's designed for people with arthritis or poor grip - i.e. knives intended for people who can't hold a knife well and are likely to slip whilst using it. Do you think those sort of knives would usually be razor sharp? Is a care home likely to give a sharp knife to an elderly dementia patient to eat his dinner with?
I'm thinking probably not. The care home were probably just at a loss as to what to do when the guy refused to hand it over.
But the disciplinary hearing also seems to suggest that the officers took very little time to talk to the care home staff when they arrived or consider what other action they could have taken (like leaving the guy on his own to calm down for a bit) before engaging in confrontation with him.
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