Daniel Thomas - jurisdiction
Discussion
I couldn't find a thread on this, and this particular point doesn't seem to have been discussed.
We have all seen the news about how a chap called Daniel Thomas is in court due to allegedly slashing at a RIB in the English channel.
The part that has me scratching my head is that the passengers and "crew" of the RIB had already been transferred to a British border force boat, but the French coastguard decided to jump aboard the abandoned RIB.
Doesn't the halfway line demark the "it's your problem now" point? I realise that we have precise GNSS so it would be possible to navigate a boat to within a few metres of entering British waters, only for it to drift back into French waters, but it's rather implausible that a boat wasn't in trouble on the French side then immediately got into difficulty after crossing the imaginary line.
So how has this situation arisen? Surely it should be either:
1) they were in French waters and the French Coast Guard should have sorted it all out OR
2) they were in British waters and the French Coast Guard shouldn't have been there.
We have all seen the news about how a chap called Daniel Thomas is in court due to allegedly slashing at a RIB in the English channel.
The part that has me scratching my head is that the passengers and "crew" of the RIB had already been transferred to a British border force boat, but the French coastguard decided to jump aboard the abandoned RIB.
Doesn't the halfway line demark the "it's your problem now" point? I realise that we have precise GNSS so it would be possible to navigate a boat to within a few metres of entering British waters, only for it to drift back into French waters, but it's rather implausible that a boat wasn't in trouble on the French side then immediately got into difficulty after crossing the imaginary line.
So how has this situation arisen? Surely it should be either:
1) they were in French waters and the French Coast Guard should have sorted it all out OR
2) they were in British waters and the French Coast Guard shouldn't have been there.
Don't think it matters. They are making for UK waters and when they get over the line they generally get picked up by us.
I believe the French usually tow the boats back and "dispose" of them, I would imagine this happens in UK waters.
The UK and French coast guards / BF etal do have some sort of agreement IIRC that covers the middle bit of water - and I believe they both operate in each others waters in certain situations - but generally speaking its only for rescue situations and generally moving from A to B.
I am sure an expert will be along shortly to tell use the exact regulations.
I believe the French usually tow the boats back and "dispose" of them, I would imagine this happens in UK waters.
The UK and French coast guards / BF etal do have some sort of agreement IIRC that covers the middle bit of water - and I believe they both operate in each others waters in certain situations - but generally speaking its only for rescue situations and generally moving from A to B.
I am sure an expert will be along shortly to tell use the exact regulations.
cirian75 said:
He endangered the French coastguards life.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
He's on trial for criminal damage...
Not endangering lives, silly.
The bloke is a whopper no doubt, but use your eyes.
Hes remanded until at least November 2027....for criminal damage and not giving his phone pin....
It's lawfare.
GMT13 said:
He's on trial for criminal damage...
Not endangering lives, silly.
The bloke is a whopper no doubt, but use your eyes.
Hes remanded until at least November 2027....for criminal damage and not giving his phone pin....
It's lawfare.
Chicken Chaser said:
If he is remanded for simply damage then it seems a very heavy penalty however, does anyone know his bail history or his antecedence?
Didn’t he claim his address as ‘no fixed abode’?Would that have a bearing on any bail conditions?
Not my wheelhouse so I’ve no real idea on these things.
S100HP said:
GMT13 said:
He's on trial for criminal damage...
Not endangering lives, silly.
The bloke is a whopper no doubt, but use your eyes.
Hes remanded until at least November 2027....for criminal damage and not giving his phone pin....
It's lawfare.
I don't see why popping a dinghy would necessitate that, and if they'd already had him under investigation for crimes that would justify that then they'd have requested the PIN earlier.
I don't know the guy, I'd have never heard of him if it weren't for this incident but it does feel heavy handed. The French guy jumps into the abandoned, presumably ownerless boat while it's already being slashed, and barring some cartoon-style "boat flies around like a deflating balloon" situation no-one was in danger.
If he's in English waters it's pretty straight forward.
Extra-territorial reach for offences at sea:
Territorial Waters Act 1878 and Merchant Shipping Act 1995
Reading them briefly I think they may struggle if he wasn't in British territorial waters (I could be missing something).
I'd assume the CPS at Crown Court level would have considered this point of law.
He's on trial for criminal damage...
Not endangering lives, silly.
The bloke is a whopper no doubt, but use your eyes.
Hes remanded until at least November 2027....for criminal damage and not giving his phone pin....
It's lawfare.Where have you got November 2027 from?
Are you confusing it with his next court appearance in November this year with his trial in March next year?
Extra-territorial reach for offences at sea:
Territorial Waters Act 1878 and Merchant Shipping Act 1995
Reading them briefly I think they may struggle if he wasn't in British territorial waters (I could be missing something).
I'd assume the CPS at Crown Court level would have considered this point of law.
GMT13 said:
cirian75 said:
He endangered the French coastguards life.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
He's on trial for criminal damage...
Not endangering lives, silly.
The bloke is a whopper no doubt, but use your eyes.
Hes remanded until at least November 2027....for criminal damage and not giving his phone pin....
It's lawfare.
Are you confusing it with his next court appearance in November this year with his trial in March next year?
PurplePenguin said:
cirian75 said:
The passengers where off the boat
The French coastguard jumped on the boat
Thomas slashed the boat
He endangered the French coastguards life.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
Oh! The humanity The French coastguard jumped on the boat
Thomas slashed the boat
He endangered the French coastguards life.
Either side of the channel, he'd still be in court.
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