DfT wants new motorcycle emissions laws, but admits it has n
Discussion
There is a thread on the General Gassing (cars) related to this, seems to be a sledge hammer response to crack a nut from the powers that be. No surprise there then. Doesn't affect me as my bike is standard, has the potential to affect anyone with a non-standard exhaust/map. Link is from Visor Down:
https://www.visordown.com/news/dft-wants-new-motor...
https://www.visordown.com/news/dft-wants-new-motor...
Can anyone explain why bikes shouldn't be included in the legislation? Other than "we don't want to be".
It's fairly obvious that if you have a rule which says bikes must meet Euro 6 when they're sold, but then you can instantly go and remove all the emissions equipment, put on an EUC map, and emit far above the level they were sold with then the emissions standard and law aren't doing their job. Cars and other motor vehicles have always had this rule however badly it is enforced. The poor enforcement is what the wider rule changes around this motorbike specific bit are trying to address.
It's fairly obvious that if you have a rule which says bikes must meet Euro 6 when they're sold, but then you can instantly go and remove all the emissions equipment, put on an EUC map, and emit far above the level they were sold with then the emissions standard and law aren't doing their job. Cars and other motor vehicles have always had this rule however badly it is enforced. The poor enforcement is what the wider rule changes around this motorbike specific bit are trying to address.
On one my bikes the cats and downpipes were combined so when the downpipes went the whole lot needed done, at a large price and little availability. A full system was a small fraction of the price, and available next day. I don't think there's many cars with only one cat that is an assembly with the manifold, and there's even fewer where the manifolds are a common failure.
hiccy18 said:
On one my bikes the cats and downpipes were combined so when the downpipes went the whole lot needed done, at a large price and little availability. A full system was a small fraction of the price, and available next day. I don't think there's many cars with only one cat that is an assembly with the manifold, and there's even fewer where the manifolds are a common failure.
A lot of cars have one piece downpipes and integral cats - quite a lot of cars have integral cats or DPF's with manifoldsI took the exhaust of a mates BMW 7 series and it was one piece from back box to the connection on the manifold!!!!
My SLK55 has 2 cats in each down pipe so 4 cats in total
My BMW K1200RS exhaust is one piece downpipes, cat and silencers
I don't think it's that different cars to motorcycles and the prices are similarly eye watering for cars when emissions equipment ages out - the difference is you can't get away with throwing a de-cat pipe and expect to pass emissions testing with a car where you can easily and relatively cheaply throw a new system on a motorcycle with no risk of failure (unless it's stupidly loud)
Not sure on this as it would likely mission creep beyond just emissions but, I can see they would say that a bike made with a catalytic converter should be required to keep it and therefore conform to the emission standards it was built to.
From a selfish point of view it's unlikely to affect me unless mission creep extends to 'anything aftermarket' as all my bikes are old and pre-cat/any emissions standards so the standards of the day (except noise levels) are likely still met even with aftermarket exhausts and I currently have no plans to buy any newer bikes anyway but, given the price of new bike aftermarket exhausts
I probably wouldn't be changing them anyway plus, modern sport bikes make such huge power even in standard catalysed trim that it almost seems pointless though, maybe I'm just getting old. 
From a selfish point of view it's unlikely to affect me unless mission creep extends to 'anything aftermarket' as all my bikes are old and pre-cat/any emissions standards so the standards of the day (except noise levels) are likely still met even with aftermarket exhausts and I currently have no plans to buy any newer bikes anyway but, given the price of new bike aftermarket exhausts
I probably wouldn't be changing them anyway plus, modern sport bikes make such huge power even in standard catalysed trim that it almost seems pointless though, maybe I'm just getting old. Annoyingly my Euro 5+ Speed twin RS comes with catalysts in the end cans for a total of 3 catalysts. This means I can't ever fit slip ons for a slightly deeper tone. That said bike MOTs are never going to be able to test emissions easily (my local place is old school and very small workshop only capable of fitting one bike at a time), would the MOT testers be required to buy testing equipment or know exactly how many and where the cats are meant to be on every bike?
What were the emissions controls in 1958 ? 😂
To be fair though , I can’t see how they can insist on controls being kept in place when bikes RFL isn’t linked to its emissions.
Cake and eating it . As an aside , most “ noisy “ exhausts wouldn’t cause an emissions fail.
Your being tested for what comes out the pipe , not what’s in it.
To be fair though , I can’t see how they can insist on controls being kept in place when bikes RFL isn’t linked to its emissions.
Cake and eating it . As an aside , most “ noisy “ exhausts wouldn’t cause an emissions fail.
Your being tested for what comes out the pipe , not what’s in it.
hondajack85 said:
Whould be nice to shut the f
ker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)ker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
I have no problem with it - If applied to newly registered vehicles.
Why should someone - who in good faith - bought an older bike which now fails on it's MOT because a previous owner ripped the PAIR valve out?
The simple fact is, not only are the oem exhausts extremely expensive to buy but they are also extremely difficult to source for certain bikes - remember all those old Hondas with mild steel that rotted like an old Lawnmower?
I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....
Why should someone - who in good faith - bought an older bike which now fails on it's MOT because a previous owner ripped the PAIR valve out?
The simple fact is, not only are the oem exhausts extremely expensive to buy but they are also extremely difficult to source for certain bikes - remember all those old Hondas with mild steel that rotted like an old Lawnmower?
I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....
STe_rsv4 said:
hondajack85 said:
Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)ker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
Biker9090 said:
The simple fact is, not only are the oem exhausts extremely expensive to buy but they are also extremely difficult to source for certain bikes - remember all those old Hondas with mild steel that rotted like an old Lawnmower?
I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....
For older bikes it's not likely to be an issue because there was less strict limits and no emissions control, other than keeping the carbs original and clean, air filter changed etc. Its only when EFI came in that remaps easily allowed people to increase the fuelling, and then later vehicles with cats which could be removed that emissions could be increased in the pursuit of more power.I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....
trickywoo said:
STe_rsv4 said:
hondajack85 said:
Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)ker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
hondajack85 said:
trickywoo said:
STe_rsv4 said:
hondajack85 said:
Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)ker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.
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