I can see trouble ahead
Discussion
A family member required P.O.A recently this has been split between parties, although I haven't done anything with it myself entrusting other parties ( although now thinking I could do just to view state of accounts etc)
With state they are in its not likely they will last terribly long sadly.
Their live in partner ( no relation to me) for decades.
I believe always had separate accounts, and never married. Have always been amicable with them to date but without the family member in the picture they have started to get quite snooty.
Many purchases were done on small and possibly valuable items by my family member such as ebay that shouldn't directly involve the other half. I even went on journeys involved some of items myself, where the family member paid on card.
Some may have been gifts from this party I recognise and may want to lay claim to them, I wouldn't dispute.
However I was told today by them stating they bought "all" or most the stuff together between them, also its up to them as executor what they choose to do...and quite defensive about the matter ! This is a bit alarmist.
I was given a heads up by my "real" mother on this situation lately.
I don't have full info on will yet but told it doesn't nominate any specific party in regard to items at least.
On the law side looking into the rules I'm seeing this quite differently and anyone putting themselves have a responsibility to be "fair" and not just reward themselves or could be on quite dodgy legal ground?
I'm not looking to be a miser money chaser just think they should be totally fair and equal about it with all parties, on any assets and values? There is some items of sentimentality that I grew up with them for instance like musical instrument nothing special but means something to me. Sounds more like they are gearing towards wanting to do whatever they like.....
With state they are in its not likely they will last terribly long sadly.
Their live in partner ( no relation to me) for decades.
I believe always had separate accounts, and never married. Have always been amicable with them to date but without the family member in the picture they have started to get quite snooty.
Many purchases were done on small and possibly valuable items by my family member such as ebay that shouldn't directly involve the other half. I even went on journeys involved some of items myself, where the family member paid on card.
Some may have been gifts from this party I recognise and may want to lay claim to them, I wouldn't dispute.
However I was told today by them stating they bought "all" or most the stuff together between them, also its up to them as executor what they choose to do...and quite defensive about the matter ! This is a bit alarmist.
I was given a heads up by my "real" mother on this situation lately.
I don't have full info on will yet but told it doesn't nominate any specific party in regard to items at least.
On the law side looking into the rules I'm seeing this quite differently and anyone putting themselves have a responsibility to be "fair" and not just reward themselves or could be on quite dodgy legal ground?
I'm not looking to be a miser money chaser just think they should be totally fair and equal about it with all parties, on any assets and values? There is some items of sentimentality that I grew up with them for instance like musical instrument nothing special but means something to me. Sounds more like they are gearing towards wanting to do whatever they like.....
I'm not sure I understand all of this post. Am I right in thinking that you are named in a financial PoA as one of several Attorneys ? My understanding is that Attorneys can only operate in the interests of the grantor/principal, not in their own interests. The PoA is extinguished when the Principal dies, and it is only on death that a will comes into force and any executor(s) have a role to play - and they then are able to dispose of the estate in accordance with any will (subject of course to any taxes due).
Yep I understand that. My only interest of POA would be seeing what we are dealing with up to the point and what goes missing/ any funny business only.
I read the executor can be beneficiary to themselves but has to be seen to be fair, just what I was told seemed to be at odds with that and might need to be something to watch out for
I read the executor can be beneficiary to themselves but has to be seen to be fair, just what I was told seemed to be at odds with that and might need to be something to watch out for
you need to separate the issues at hand as they are not joined in any way.
POA Attorney - as above, needs to act in the best interests (if you are a named attorney on the POA then you should be able to request access to the accounts).
Executor - The POA ends upon death. The executor MUST carry out the instructions laid out in the will (as well as sorting out all the finances/paying IHT/distributing funds. The executor can ALSO be a beneficiary. There is no concept of the executor being “fair” as all they are doing is carrying out the administrative duties specified in the will.
Good luck! (And sorry that things have got to this stage)
Jim
POA Attorney - as above, needs to act in the best interests (if you are a named attorney on the POA then you should be able to request access to the accounts).
Executor - The POA ends upon death. The executor MUST carry out the instructions laid out in the will (as well as sorting out all the finances/paying IHT/distributing funds. The executor can ALSO be a beneficiary. There is no concept of the executor being “fair” as all they are doing is carrying out the administrative duties specified in the will.
Good luck! (And sorry that things have got to this stage)
Jim
As has been said there are 2 different issues here.
There was a thread not so long ago about abuse of a LPA and this sounds no different.
The role of any Attorney is to only act in the best interests of the donor at all times even if that goes against what they think or would do as individuals.
Taking money to use for themselves or to suggest “ it’s what the donee would have wanted “ is diametrically opposite and constitutes abuse of said LPA agreement.
If you think this has happened then you need to contact the OPG and quite possibly the police although perhaps a word first with the “ offenders “ just in case their abuse has been in error or you have misunderstood ?
It’s a tricky balance and you might want some evidence.
Coincidentally a friend has been having similar issues recently and their brother appears to have mislaid the entirety of the mums house sale proceeds.
This is also involving possible collusion by other third parties and yes the police have been informed !
Any LPA could be used jointly but also severally unless the combined second box has been used which means no one attorney can make decisions by themselves.
Any LPA ceases automatically upon death.
The role of an Executor is to obviously settle any estate and paradoxically one of their duties is to maximise the inheritance for the beneficiaries.
There was a thread not so long ago about abuse of a LPA and this sounds no different.
The role of any Attorney is to only act in the best interests of the donor at all times even if that goes against what they think or would do as individuals.
Taking money to use for themselves or to suggest “ it’s what the donee would have wanted “ is diametrically opposite and constitutes abuse of said LPA agreement.
If you think this has happened then you need to contact the OPG and quite possibly the police although perhaps a word first with the “ offenders “ just in case their abuse has been in error or you have misunderstood ?
It’s a tricky balance and you might want some evidence.
Coincidentally a friend has been having similar issues recently and their brother appears to have mislaid the entirety of the mums house sale proceeds.
This is also involving possible collusion by other third parties and yes the police have been informed !
Any LPA could be used jointly but also severally unless the combined second box has been used which means no one attorney can make decisions by themselves.
Any LPA ceases automatically upon death.
The role of an Executor is to obviously settle any estate and paradoxically one of their duties is to maximise the inheritance for the beneficiaries.
Apologies, am not claiming necessarily at LPA stage there has been any inproprietary until its proven, unless I request access and find anything odd looking doing this later ( which I assume I need to check quick) I have the letter anyway giving me invite to get access.
However on discussion of things being thrown away etc ( is happening ) told its just broken stuff, probing further getting more sensitive about it and stating this as fact "me and your parent bought stuff together"
- Highly unlikely because they kept accounts separate and he never wanted to marry again following divorce
for a fact I went with him when he went and bought things like guitars. There is one particular one I'd like to consider having as sentimental, I first learn how to play on it and I'm pretty sure it predated her being "on the scene"
At very least as apparently will has no mention of such items they should be part of the estate and be distributed fairly. Unless their heated outburst was just a misunderstanding....but their suggestion of inherent power was indicated along the lines " I am going to be executor of will and will deal with it as I see fit"
This is what sucks about people having relationships with others you have absolutely no allegiance to ( like your family/ mother ) would be a different matter wouldn't it I imagine. The misery of divorce prolongs well belong its first beginnings.
My mother is backing us up and actually promoted/cause this actually by suggesting we better make sure we know what is going on behind the scenes or I wouldn't have probed and wanted to just leave it until later.
I don't think after this will have any dealings with the party mentioned after all is completed.
However on discussion of things being thrown away etc ( is happening ) told its just broken stuff, probing further getting more sensitive about it and stating this as fact "me and your parent bought stuff together"
- Highly unlikely because they kept accounts separate and he never wanted to marry again following divorce
for a fact I went with him when he went and bought things like guitars. There is one particular one I'd like to consider having as sentimental, I first learn how to play on it and I'm pretty sure it predated her being "on the scene"
At very least as apparently will has no mention of such items they should be part of the estate and be distributed fairly. Unless their heated outburst was just a misunderstanding....but their suggestion of inherent power was indicated along the lines " I am going to be executor of will and will deal with it as I see fit"
This is what sucks about people having relationships with others you have absolutely no allegiance to ( like your family/ mother ) would be a different matter wouldn't it I imagine. The misery of divorce prolongs well belong its first beginnings.
My mother is backing us up and actually promoted/cause this actually by suggesting we better make sure we know what is going on behind the scenes or I wouldn't have probed and wanted to just leave it until later.
I don't think after this will have any dealings with the party mentioned after all is completed.
daytonavrs said:
Apologies, am not claiming necessarily at LPA stage there has been any inproprietary until its proven, unless I request access and find anything odd looking doing this later ( which I assume I need to check quick) I have the letter anyway giving me invite to get access.
Apologies for format but quicker this way -are you actually named as one of the Attorneys ?
However on discussion of things being thrown away etc ( is happening ) told its just broken stuff, probing further getting more sensitive about it and stating this as fact "me and your parent bought stuff together"
- Highly unlikely because they kept accounts separate and he never wanted to marry again following divorce
for a fact I went with him when he went and bought things like guitars. There is one particular one I'd like to consider having as sentimental, I first learn how to play on it and I'm pretty sure it predated her being "on the scene"
This seems to be the others behaving as though the individual has already passed and they are acting pre whatever the will might say ?
At very least as apparently will has no mention of such items they should be part of the estate and be distributed fairly. Unless their heated outburst was just a misunderstanding....but their suggestion of inherent power was indicated along the lines " I am going to be executor of will and will deal with it as I see fit"
Usually a will includes such lines as "all property " is left to etc - they can only be the Executor is they' re named though.
This is what sucks about people having relationships with others you have absolutely no allegiance to ( like your family/ mother ) would be a different matter wouldn't it I imagine. The misery of divorce prolongs well belong its first beginnings.
My mother is backing us up and actually promoted/cause this actually by suggesting we better make sure we know what is going on behind the scenes or I wouldn't have probed and wanted to just leave it until later.
I don't think after this will have any dealings with the party mentioned after all is completed.
Apologies for format but quicker this way -are you actually named as one of the Attorneys ?
However on discussion of things being thrown away etc ( is happening ) told its just broken stuff, probing further getting more sensitive about it and stating this as fact "me and your parent bought stuff together"
- Highly unlikely because they kept accounts separate and he never wanted to marry again following divorce
for a fact I went with him when he went and bought things like guitars. There is one particular one I'd like to consider having as sentimental, I first learn how to play on it and I'm pretty sure it predated her being "on the scene"
This seems to be the others behaving as though the individual has already passed and they are acting pre whatever the will might say ?
At very least as apparently will has no mention of such items they should be part of the estate and be distributed fairly. Unless their heated outburst was just a misunderstanding....but their suggestion of inherent power was indicated along the lines " I am going to be executor of will and will deal with it as I see fit"
Usually a will includes such lines as "all property " is left to etc - they can only be the Executor is they' re named though.
This is what sucks about people having relationships with others you have absolutely no allegiance to ( like your family/ mother ) would be a different matter wouldn't it I imagine. The misery of divorce prolongs well belong its first beginnings.
My mother is backing us up and actually promoted/cause this actually by suggesting we better make sure we know what is going on behind the scenes or I wouldn't have probed and wanted to just leave it until later.
I don't think after this will have any dealings with the party mentioned after all is completed.
As such you can obviously view whatever accounts the other attorneys have gained control over.
I say that with a touch of a health warning - it could be that they have only registered themselves individually to have activated ie you would have to make the same approach separately.
It depends on how the Financial institution or whomever has registered it. For instance for my Mother just now both my wife and I are the attorneys but it s only me that is technically registered and has online accessibility other than on her water bill where they were happy to register us both.
If you have the more recent versions than you can get online access codes for the various companies which makes it much easier !
However if you have the slightest doubt that “ abuse “ of the LPA has or is happening then don’t delay.
I say that with a touch of a health warning - it could be that they have only registered themselves individually to have activated ie you would have to make the same approach separately.
It depends on how the Financial institution or whomever has registered it. For instance for my Mother just now both my wife and I are the attorneys but it s only me that is technically registered and has online accessibility other than on her water bill where they were happy to register us both.
If you have the more recent versions than you can get online access codes for the various companies which makes it much easier !
However if you have the slightest doubt that “ abuse “ of the LPA has or is happening then don’t delay.
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