Parmenion

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Anyone have their pension/SIPP with Parmenion? If so, how is it performing and how are they to deal with?

I'm with Canada Life, who have been superb, but they are throwing the towel in and Parmenion are taking over their portfolio of clients. I have an IFA who will be looking at the requirements of all his Canada Life clients to see if Parmenion are the best option, but in the meantime if anyone has any first hand experience?

[Steve H]

I found them fine to deal with, regular paperwork through showing all details, no issues at all.

But performance wasn’t what I was looking for so I ended up elsewhere.

[Mr Pointy]

This may not be too useful but I was put with them by an FA & they were ok, but no more than that. When I dropped the FA Parmenion told me I had to move away as they didn't deal direct so I ended up at IM & Vanguard. TBH I wasn't very impressed with the performance as there was more than one year when the FA made more than I did.

Are you actually getting anything from your FA that makes paying their fee worthwhile?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mr Pointy said:

Are you actually getting anything from your FA that makes paying their fee worthwhile?

I think so. I've had approx £80K out of my pension over the last 5 years since I retired, and I have £30K more in the pension than I had on day 1, after paying his fees.

[butchstewie]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think so. I've had approx £80K out of my pension over the last 5 years since I retired, and I have £30K more in the pension than I had on day 1, after paying his fees.

Worth knowing what you're invested in and actual returns and total fees paid if you're not already aware IMO.

The advisor might be doing a grand job and there's a value to having one - but - respectfully - that statement above doesn't mean much without a bit more context

[alscar]

butchstewie said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think so. I've had approx £80K out of my pension over the last 5 years since I retired, and I have £30K more in the pension than I had on day 1, after paying his fees.

Worth knowing what you're invested in and actual returns and total fees paid if you're not already aware IMO.

The advisor might be doing a grand job and there's a value to having one - but - respectfully - that statement above doesn't mean much without a bit more context

I did think that earlier except Twig can't now provide percentage return numbers
It will also turn into a willy waving thread !

[Steve H]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Mr Pointy said:

Are you actually getting anything from your FA that makes paying their fee worthwhile?

I think so. I've had approx £80K out of my pension over the last 5 years since I retired, and I have £30K more in the pension than I had on day 1, after paying his fees.

Over the last few years a lot of pensions have grown beyond their original number despite drawdown. If you were taking at the magic 4% rate that always gets suggested you would effectively drawn 20% of the fund out over five years where a lot of funds have been making 20% or more in a single year.

Not to say that your FA isn’t doing a good job, just that being ahead at this point doesn’t really confirm it.

[alscar]

Steve H said:

Over the last few years a lot of pensions have grown beyond their original number despite drawdown. If you were taking at the magic 4% rate that always gets suggested you would effectively drawn 20% of the fund out over five years where a lot of funds have been making 20% or more in a single year.

Not to say that your FA isn t doing a good job, just that being ahead at this point doesn t really confirm it.

Indeed but I think Twigs point was simply that he was happy enough with the actual “ end result “ as it gave him sufficient comfort that all was looking good.
5 years isn’t really long enough on any investment cycle to claim victory though obviously.

[Steve H]

Growing despite withdrawal does sound ok doesn’t it

But without the numbers it’s hard to know and even if he is happy with where he is he might not be as happy if it turned out he would be five figures better off if he just stuck it in a vanilla tracker at 0.2% total fees.

[alscar]

Steve H said:

Growing despite withdrawal does sound ok doesn t it

But without the numbers it s hard to know and even if he is happy with where he is he might not be as happy if it turned out he would be five figures better off if he just stuck it in a vanilla tracker at 0.2% total fees.

Difficult to value the psychological win though.
And then once the size of pot goes above a certain point I doubt many ( even here ) would have that in one “Fund “ and self administered for all of their Pension savings ?
Mind you I’m always amazed to see that the average SJP investor ( and I’m sure they aren’t totally an outlier in this ) has “ only “ around £220k or so in total investments.

[Steve H]

alscar said:

Steve H said:

Growing despite withdrawal does sound ok doesn t it

But without the numbers it s hard to know and even if he is happy with where he is he might not be as happy if it turned out he would be five figures better off if he just stuck it in a vanilla tracker at 0.2% total fees.

Difficult to value the psychological win though.
And then once the size of pot goes above a certain point I doubt many ( even here ) would have that in one Fund and self administered for all of their Pension savings ?
Mind you I m always amazed to see that the average SJP investor ( and I m sure they aren t totally an outlier in this ) has only around £220k or so in total investments.

Much easier to measure the financial win so I’ll stick to that .

I wouldn’t expect someone with a chunky pension to necessarily have it all with one provider or in one portfolio or tracker, but it wouldn’t surprise me if lots of people self manage/monitor where the money goes to. I don’t mean picking the stocks or the trades, just the funds.

[Mr Pointy]

Steve H said:

alscar said:

Steve H said:

Growing despite withdrawal does sound ok doesn t it

But without the numbers it s hard to know and even if he is happy with where he is he might not be as happy if it turned out he would be five figures better off if he just stuck it in a vanilla tracker at 0.2% total fees.

Difficult to value the psychological win though.
And then once the size of pot goes above a certain point I doubt many ( even here ) would have that in one Fund and self administered for all of their Pension savings?
Mind you I m always amazed to see that the average SJP investor ( and I m sure they aren't totally an outlier in this ) has only around £220k or so in total investments.

Much easier to measure the financial win so I ll stick to that .

I wouldn't expect someone with a chunky pension to necessarily have it all with one provider or in one portfolio or tracker, but it wouldn't surprise me if lots of people self manage/monitor where the money goes to. I don t mean picking the stocks or the trades, just the funds.

Indeed, hence my asking what the FA was contributing. There's so much information available these days that it's perfectly feasible to run your own portfolio even if it is in seven figures. Now if the FA is giving detailed tax & inheritance planning then that might be worth paying for, but I'd suggest as a one-off payment rather than a percentage of the fund value. But we've been over than many times.

[alscar]

Steve H said:

Much easier to measure the financial win so I ll stick to that .

I wouldn t expect someone with a chunky pension to necessarily have it all with one provider or in one portfolio or tracker, but it wouldn t surprise me if lots of people self manage/monitor where the money goes to. I don t mean picking the stocks or the trades, just the funds.

Self managed indeed but not all in one individual Fund pick was my point.

[Steve H]

alscar said:

Self managed indeed but not all in one individual Fund pick was my point.

Agreed.

I only mentioned a basic tracker as an extremely cheap option that could possibly end up outperforming a FA guided combo, especially after charges. But it wouldn’t be my choice of how to go, and isn’t.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

alscar said:

butchstewie said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I think so. I've had approx £80K out of my pension over the last 5 years since I retired, and I have £30K more in the pension than I had on day 1, after paying his fees.

Worth knowing what you're invested in and actual returns and total fees paid if you're not already aware IMO.

The advisor might be doing a grand job and there's a value to having one - but - respectfully - that statement above doesn't mean much without a bit more context

I did think that earlier except Twig can't now provide percentage return numbers
It will also turn into a willy waving thread !

Exactly this. I appreciate that without knowing the amount invested you can't judge, but I'm British and don't feel comfortable giving out figures. But I'm happy with the performance and my IFA. Which probably tells you that my pension pot is not in the tens of millions

[alscar]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Exactly this. I appreciate that without knowing the amount invested you can't judge, but I'm British and don't feel comfortable giving out figures. But I'm happy with the performance and my IFA. Which probably tells you that my pension pot is not in the tens of millions

I think it was the £30k uplift number that gave that one away !
Any percentage numbers for Pensions drawdown and investment without numbers are always interesting to read but when it then comes to pure investment tales ,” meaningless” without numbers albeit as you say that’s the usual British way.

[butchstewie]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Exactly this. I appreciate that without knowing the amount invested you can't judge, but I'm British and don't feel comfortable giving out figures. But I'm happy with the performance and my IFA. Which probably tells you that my pension pot is not in the tens of millions

I'm the same on numbers.

My point was simply that if you're in a 60/40 fund you can probably form a very rough idea what "good" performance looks like.

Likewise on the IFA front with fees - if you're not comfortable doing it yourself I get that - more that fees can form a pretty hefty chunk of what you actually make so if you end up in a scenario of a underperforming investment and an advisor with chunky fees it can be the worst of both worlds.

Sounds like that isn't the case but always worth mentioning

[RalBack]

I am also a Canada Life pension holder. It is my understanding that Canada Life were happy to take instructions without an intermediary financial adviser. In contrast it appears that Parmenion will only take adviser instructions. This may leave clients exposed to future charges that they didn't anticipate. It is therefore potentially arguable that Canada Life may have received some form of financial consideration in exchange for reducing the rights of their clients and some form of compensation is due.