Has Anyone Investigated Peptides e.g. BPC-157 for Dogs?
Discussion
Hi everyone!
I don't participate in the photos of your dogs thread these days as it kind of makes me a bit sad really and I don't want to moan about Bella getting old... but I hope you and your dogs are all doing well!
The good news: Bella seems to have completely recovered from her spinal injury and vestibular events and will turn 14 this coming Sunday. This was far from certain just under a year ago... and no doubt I will be nervous the next couple of months as we pass through the anniversaries of the above (albeit the first vestibular anniversary has been and gone - yay).
The bad news: Perhaps unsurprisingly after the trauma of the above, she has got very 'old' the last few months. Limited range of movement in all 4 legs, her elbows and knees have 'gone' and whilst she doesn't necessarily struggle massively to walk, she can have bad days and getting up is a chore. After 4 hours on her feet on Friday, in the car (she never wants to sit/lay), to the vet and phsyio, she was very limpy on Saturday, though mostly over that now. We don't usually go too far, maybe a 15-20mins slow, sniffy walk (4x a day) these days.
However, she is still full of life, appears very happy, engaged, eating (fresh salmon and chicken everyday) and drinking well, going to the potty as usual/no accidents, etc. In fact, even on a bad day, walking at a snails pace, it's hell to get her turned round and back in the house because she is desperate to be out and 'playing'! She has just had her 6 monthly bloodwork back to check organs for painkiller and anti-inflammatory prescriptions and the vet described them as "beautiful". So, there is plenty of 'life' left in her and I don't want that stolen by dodgy legs (where humanely possible).
I didn't cut the long story short but let me now get to the question - Has anyone looked into, or even used, experimental peptides for their old or injured dog? "Body Protection Compound" BPC-157 seems somewhat magical from all the research I have done (I have gone pretty deep) and in combination with TB-500 (another peptide) has been showing some fantastic beneficial properties for both humans and animals, extending range of motion due to ligament, tendon, etc. 'support'. They also seem to be better studied than many other peptides and appear safe.
Whilst nervous about administering subcutaneous injections, I am more nervous about someone suggesting she be put down because of her limbs, when her mind and organs are so, so good, knowing there was something else out there that could have helped her.
Has anyone looked into it or done it? Perhaps you have and have come across some downsides? It's a shame it can't be administered orally (well, it can, and it is supposedly very good for the gut, but gets broken down and doesn't make it into the bloodstream) as the only thing really putting me off is the injections.
Interested in your thoughts - Even if they are "no way" and explained
Go on, have a pic and many thanks in advance!
I don't participate in the photos of your dogs thread these days as it kind of makes me a bit sad really and I don't want to moan about Bella getting old... but I hope you and your dogs are all doing well!
The good news: Bella seems to have completely recovered from her spinal injury and vestibular events and will turn 14 this coming Sunday. This was far from certain just under a year ago... and no doubt I will be nervous the next couple of months as we pass through the anniversaries of the above (albeit the first vestibular anniversary has been and gone - yay).
The bad news: Perhaps unsurprisingly after the trauma of the above, she has got very 'old' the last few months. Limited range of movement in all 4 legs, her elbows and knees have 'gone' and whilst she doesn't necessarily struggle massively to walk, she can have bad days and getting up is a chore. After 4 hours on her feet on Friday, in the car (she never wants to sit/lay), to the vet and phsyio, she was very limpy on Saturday, though mostly over that now. We don't usually go too far, maybe a 15-20mins slow, sniffy walk (4x a day) these days.
However, she is still full of life, appears very happy, engaged, eating (fresh salmon and chicken everyday) and drinking well, going to the potty as usual/no accidents, etc. In fact, even on a bad day, walking at a snails pace, it's hell to get her turned round and back in the house because she is desperate to be out and 'playing'! She has just had her 6 monthly bloodwork back to check organs for painkiller and anti-inflammatory prescriptions and the vet described them as "beautiful". So, there is plenty of 'life' left in her and I don't want that stolen by dodgy legs (where humanely possible).
I didn't cut the long story short but let me now get to the question - Has anyone looked into, or even used, experimental peptides for their old or injured dog? "Body Protection Compound" BPC-157 seems somewhat magical from all the research I have done (I have gone pretty deep) and in combination with TB-500 (another peptide) has been showing some fantastic beneficial properties for both humans and animals, extending range of motion due to ligament, tendon, etc. 'support'. They also seem to be better studied than many other peptides and appear safe.
Whilst nervous about administering subcutaneous injections, I am more nervous about someone suggesting she be put down because of her limbs, when her mind and organs are so, so good, knowing there was something else out there that could have helped her.
Has anyone looked into it or done it? Perhaps you have and have come across some downsides? It's a shame it can't be administered orally (well, it can, and it is supposedly very good for the gut, but gets broken down and doesn't make it into the bloodstream) as the only thing really putting me off is the injections.
Interested in your thoughts - Even if they are "no way" and explained
Go on, have a pic and many thanks in advance!
It's nice to see an update on Bella, thank you 
As for Peptides, sorry, I can't comment as I've never heard of them being used for dogs.
What I would say, though, is - if the injections are similar to those required for diabetic dogs - you would get used to doing them. One of my first dogs was diagnosed with diabetes and I gave her insulin injections for several years. I was shown how to do it by a vet nurse.
As for Peptides, sorry, I can't comment as I've never heard of them being used for dogs.
What I would say, though, is - if the injections are similar to those required for diabetic dogs - you would get used to doing them. One of my first dogs was diagnosed with diabetes and I gave her insulin injections for several years. I was shown how to do it by a vet nurse.
Thanks guys and hi Moorx - yes, very similar to insulin injections, same syringes and needles, so very 'doable' but... dunno... first time nerves and all that! They'd be given every day for a month, so it's not worth trying to get a VN in.
We have NOT had push back from the medical professionals (I call them that because, vets included, she sees quite a lot incl. competition equine/canine physio, etc.), which quite surprised me as they're usually "we wouldn't recommend that" or "we don't know about that". One example where we have come up against resistance: her specialist hospital wouldn't give antibiotics and steroids when she had her second vestibular event and that took aaaaaaaaaaages to recover from. They said there was no research/papers proving it helped. Her first, seen by a vet in Norfolk on holiday, she was given them and was on the mend the same day. Placebo? Luck? More minor incident? Who knows but neither would have likely 'hurt' her (she's known to be tolerant to both). That frustrated me. However, they are 'drugs', with known side effects, and I guess peptides aren't.
I think, since the peptides are considered 'safe' (and 'reliable' sources of pure peptides are readily available) they are basically "why not, it won't hurt her".... but using her for pin cushion practice probably would (not that the vet did a better job on Friday, trying to draw blood with a much thicker needle). Whilst vet consultations are free for us (as long as we don't take the pee), no one showed interest in doing the injections (guess being "experimental" there are license/insurance issues).
These Peptides are basically just amino acids, so there is no real reason there should be any reaction and of course disposable diabetic needles/syringes are readily available, individually packaged and sterilised. I guess the chances of hitting a vein/artery in the scruff of the neck is low, if there are any (never much thought about it)!
Honestly, there is a tiny part of me hoping someone might say "no chance" and give me a reason not to, so I wouldn't feel too guilty for not trying but... think I will need to give it a go. If there is a world where we could reduce her meds and give her organs/liver an easier time, I think that would be good. I don't need her running around and coming upstairs again but I do want her to have the best quality of life possible.
Will see if we get some more replies, but I don't think it is a 'big thing' here (UK) but it seems 'not unusual' at least in the US!
We have NOT had push back from the medical professionals (I call them that because, vets included, she sees quite a lot incl. competition equine/canine physio, etc.), which quite surprised me as they're usually "we wouldn't recommend that" or "we don't know about that". One example where we have come up against resistance: her specialist hospital wouldn't give antibiotics and steroids when she had her second vestibular event and that took aaaaaaaaaaages to recover from. They said there was no research/papers proving it helped. Her first, seen by a vet in Norfolk on holiday, she was given them and was on the mend the same day. Placebo? Luck? More minor incident? Who knows but neither would have likely 'hurt' her (she's known to be tolerant to both). That frustrated me. However, they are 'drugs', with known side effects, and I guess peptides aren't.
I think, since the peptides are considered 'safe' (and 'reliable' sources of pure peptides are readily available) they are basically "why not, it won't hurt her".... but using her for pin cushion practice probably would (not that the vet did a better job on Friday, trying to draw blood with a much thicker needle). Whilst vet consultations are free for us (as long as we don't take the pee), no one showed interest in doing the injections (guess being "experimental" there are license/insurance issues).
These Peptides are basically just amino acids, so there is no real reason there should be any reaction and of course disposable diabetic needles/syringes are readily available, individually packaged and sterilised. I guess the chances of hitting a vein/artery in the scruff of the neck is low, if there are any (never much thought about it)!
Honestly, there is a tiny part of me hoping someone might say "no chance" and give me a reason not to, so I wouldn't feel too guilty for not trying but... think I will need to give it a go. If there is a world where we could reduce her meds and give her organs/liver an easier time, I think that would be good. I don't need her running around and coming upstairs again but I do want her to have the best quality of life possible.
Will see if we get some more replies, but I don't think it is a 'big thing' here (UK) but it seems 'not unusual' at least in the US!
Honestly... I just got after it. The bad limping returned and she was very poor on her fronts. We had to try something. I am very scared the vet already treats her medications as palliative (verbatim).
After a couple of days, errrrr, making sure the peptides were safe, I started her.
Slightly annoyingly for tracking progress, she was already back on the up from the front limping, by the time I was happy with the peptides, so it's a bit difficult to be fully clear on what is peptides and what is 'on the up'.
She was initially quite lethargic the first 3 or so days, in the mornings, after injection, through lunch. Giving injections was (and continues to be) a bit scary (she doesn't have the most scruff) but she only appears to have 'felt it' once. 1 out of 7, and hardly a 'big' reaction, is building my confidence.
So... what do I think? I kept the dose low <200mcg of a Wolverine stack (BPC-157 & TB-500), supposedly 99% pure, 10mg dissolved in 2.5ml Bac Water such that she only has a tiny volume in a syringe. She has been 'better'. Absolutely, definitively 'improved'. As I say, difficult to know whether some or all can be attributed to the peptides but she had 5 days continuous progress and maybe a little 'drop' the last couple of days (after a REALLY good one, so maybe overdid it) but still what we would consider the new normal 'good'.
On day 5 she jogged and was jumping about (not high)! A dog who could barely walk last weekend now jumps up on pavements and jogs about when she sees people/other dogs.
I have become very superstitious during the last year as every time I say she is doing well, something goes wrong but... She probably hasn't had more than a continuous 10 good days the last couple (or more) of months, so we're already heading for a record after 7 days/doses. Slightly annoyingly, we have physio tomorrow, which means ~2.5hrs on her feet and we're about 50/50 on whether physio improves things or the day takes it out of her and knocks her back, so that will be a bit of a test.
She gets herself up now without help, she gets up more regularly, including in the mornings, when she was quite sedantry (pre-morning pills, stiff after a long sleep), and I am already starting to think about reducing pain killers (drop one or both paracetamol) to give her liver a break, but it's too early to take decisions. I also won't have to take those decisions alone as we can see the vet for an assessment and advice.
She is also more 'annoying' and I do mean ANNOYING of an evening now! She has a 'mad hour' at 7:30pm, comes over to bother me, beg for treats and generally 'wolf' (i.e. snap her teeth if you're not throwing treats down her) and has no interest in sitting down and resting.
Is it 'magical'? Too early too say. Have we had any concerning side effects? No, albeit I kept a very careful eye on her through the first few days of lethargy. However, if she strings say 3 good weeks together, or even a month, especially now it is colder and wetter... I think we have to say we're really onto something.
Bear in mind we were helping her get up off the floor at many points last month... she has just got up and wandered over to me whilst typing this, looking for attention. If she improves week-on-week (perhaps unlikely) at the same rate, she'll be back out hunting deer by mid-October!
I am cautiously extremely optimistic and it is 'only' £50 a month for absolutely everything she needs! Right she is back up again-again, so I will take her out! [edited to add; she got up and down 3 x in 10mins there, 3x more than she might do a whole day, unassisted, recently]
After a couple of days, errrrr, making sure the peptides were safe, I started her.
Slightly annoyingly for tracking progress, she was already back on the up from the front limping, by the time I was happy with the peptides, so it's a bit difficult to be fully clear on what is peptides and what is 'on the up'.
She was initially quite lethargic the first 3 or so days, in the mornings, after injection, through lunch. Giving injections was (and continues to be) a bit scary (she doesn't have the most scruff) but she only appears to have 'felt it' once. 1 out of 7, and hardly a 'big' reaction, is building my confidence.
So... what do I think? I kept the dose low <200mcg of a Wolverine stack (BPC-157 & TB-500), supposedly 99% pure, 10mg dissolved in 2.5ml Bac Water such that she only has a tiny volume in a syringe. She has been 'better'. Absolutely, definitively 'improved'. As I say, difficult to know whether some or all can be attributed to the peptides but she had 5 days continuous progress and maybe a little 'drop' the last couple of days (after a REALLY good one, so maybe overdid it) but still what we would consider the new normal 'good'.
On day 5 she jogged and was jumping about (not high)! A dog who could barely walk last weekend now jumps up on pavements and jogs about when she sees people/other dogs.
I have become very superstitious during the last year as every time I say she is doing well, something goes wrong but... She probably hasn't had more than a continuous 10 good days the last couple (or more) of months, so we're already heading for a record after 7 days/doses. Slightly annoyingly, we have physio tomorrow, which means ~2.5hrs on her feet and we're about 50/50 on whether physio improves things or the day takes it out of her and knocks her back, so that will be a bit of a test.
She gets herself up now without help, she gets up more regularly, including in the mornings, when she was quite sedantry (pre-morning pills, stiff after a long sleep), and I am already starting to think about reducing pain killers (drop one or both paracetamol) to give her liver a break, but it's too early to take decisions. I also won't have to take those decisions alone as we can see the vet for an assessment and advice.
She is also more 'annoying' and I do mean ANNOYING of an evening now! She has a 'mad hour' at 7:30pm, comes over to bother me, beg for treats and generally 'wolf' (i.e. snap her teeth if you're not throwing treats down her) and has no interest in sitting down and resting.
Is it 'magical'? Too early too say. Have we had any concerning side effects? No, albeit I kept a very careful eye on her through the first few days of lethargy. However, if she strings say 3 good weeks together, or even a month, especially now it is colder and wetter... I think we have to say we're really onto something.
Bear in mind we were helping her get up off the floor at many points last month... she has just got up and wandered over to me whilst typing this, looking for attention. If she improves week-on-week (perhaps unlikely) at the same rate, she'll be back out hunting deer by mid-October!
I am cautiously extremely optimistic and it is 'only' £50 a month for absolutely everything she needs! Right she is back up again-again, so I will take her out! [edited to add; she got up and down 3 x in 10mins there, 3x more than she might do a whole day, unassisted, recently]
Edited by dom9 on Sunday 13th September 18:42
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