Vietnam 787 Munich
Discussion
Its real, the aircraft had a very slow take off roll and it appears did not reach Vr till off the end of the runway. Suffered landing gear damage and returned to the airport. Its still stuck on the runway / taxiway as we speak.
There is a video on social media of the take off and it looks like they cleared the trees by literally inches.
There is a video on social media of the take off and it looks like they cleared the trees by literally inches.
Initial thoughts are that the takeoff performance calculations must have been wrong, then again Munich had some pretty long runways, you'd expect a seasoned flight crew to notice when the rate of acceleration seemed too slow.
Very odd. They were lucky to get away with it, albeit a somewhat damaged 787 stuck on the deck. As always, the Swiss cheese will line up with a multiple series of factors at play.
Very odd. They were lucky to get away with it, albeit a somewhat damaged 787 stuck on the deck. As always, the Swiss cheese will line up with a multiple series of factors at play.
Quattromaster said:
Wow, that looks like he finally pulled it off the ground with throttle through the gate, or whatever the modern parlance is.I'm sure there are rules that say if you haven't reached X speed by Y distance you abort the take-off. Or maybe they met them but the bugger was too heavy.
Simpo Two said:
Quattromaster said:
Wow, that looks like he finally pulled it off the ground with throttle through the gate, or whatever the modern parlance is.I'm sure there are rules that say if you haven't reached X speed by Y distance you abort the take-off. Or maybe they met them but the bugger was too heavy.
The A350 will detect abnormal take off rolls on a distance / speed basis.
My hunch (as a layman) is based on the slow/extended takeoff roll and the tyres blowing out on landing - so my thought is a dragging brake, a fault in the autobrake system producing the same effect or one of the pilots inadvertently applying a small amount of brake - the latter was behind the crash of a DC-8 at Anchorage in very similar circumstances.
The initial acceleration would have been largely normal (even entirely normal if the brake fault came on gradually), leading to acceleration tailing off towards V1/VR, making it harder to identify.
Boeing, afaik, do not have such a system.
The initial acceleration would have been largely normal (even entirely normal if the brake fault came on gradually), leading to acceleration tailing off towards V1/VR, making it harder to identify.
Simpo Two said:
Wow, that looks like he finally pulled it off the ground with throttle through the gate, or whatever the modern parlance is.
I'm sure there are rules that say if you haven't reached X speed by Y distance you abort the take-off. Or maybe they met them but the bugger was too heavy.
As well as the speed checks and V-speed callouts that all crews use, modern Airbuses have a system that monitors the plane's position on the runway and checks it against the expected performance and the distance remaining. If the acceleration falls outside limits, it alerts the crew.I'm sure there are rules that say if you haven't reached X speed by Y distance you abort the take-off. Or maybe they met them but the bugger was too heavy.
Boeing, afaik, do not have such a system.
Video from the cabin has been released, they rotated on the threshold markings, dragging the tail over the paved surface beyond with a big thump onto the grass which they ride over for 1-2 seconds before finally getting in the air. I suspect they took out several rows of lights!
It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
The positives of the ‘super efficient’ 787 are double de rated take offs. A mix of fixed TO1 or TO2 de rate 10-20% plus the ATM (assumed temperature method) on top. So this means the aircraft performance is planned to utilise remaining runway by reducing take off thrust levels. The problem is all take offs have the aircraft rotating in the last 1/4 of the remaining field length and so crews are used to seeing an ultra slow acceleration and speed gain. They wouldn’t have thought much was different to a correctly calculated take off until it was nearly too late to fix.
There's more information, including photos, on the avherald website: https://avherald.com/h?article=53da99f6&opt=0.
2xChevrons said:
My hunch (as a layman) is based on the slow/extended takeoff roll and the tyres blowing out on landing - so my thought is a dragging brake, a fault in the autobrake system producing the same effect or one of the pilots inadvertently applying a small amount of brake - the latter was behind the crash of a DC-8 at Anchorage in very similar circumstances.
If I were a betting man I'd be putting money on a brake issue too. The aircraft flew fine once airborne which suggests to me no throttle or engine or load problem.48k said:
If I were a betting man I'd be putting money on a brake issue too. The aircraft flew fine once airborne which suggests to me no throttle or engine or load problem.
Its looking that way. There is a photo showing tyre marks off the end of the runway which indicates the right hand mains might have been braking. gotoPzero said:
Video from the cabin has been released, they rotated on the threshold markings, dragging the tail over the paved surface beyond with a big thump onto the grass which they ride over for 1-2 seconds before finally getting in the air. I suspect they took out several rows of lights!
It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
I wondered why, as it was clearly struggling to take off and low on speed, the pilot carried on climbing so steeply. A stall would have been horrendous.It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
Simpo Two said:
gotoPzero said:
Video from the cabin has been released, they rotated on the threshold markings, dragging the tail over the paved surface beyond with a big thump onto the grass which they ride over for 1-2 seconds before finally getting in the air. I suspect they took out several rows of lights!
It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
I wondered why, as it was clearly struggling to take off and low on speed, the pilot carried on climbing so steeply. A stall would have been horrendous.It appears the anti stall systems kicked in too as you can see the slats move during that time.
Crazy how close this came to a massive disaster.
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