F1 Safety car procedure
Discussion
Ok, you've been given the call from the powers that be to resolve the safety car issues... what would you do?
My view is this:
Up to three-quarters race distance, standard safety car procedure.
If less than a quarter distance remaining, red flag and resume with a standing start once this issue is resolved.
My view is this:
Up to three-quarters race distance, standard safety car procedure.
If less than a quarter distance remaining, red flag and resume with a standing start once this issue is resolved.
I wouldn't do anything unless a situation arose which showed that the current rules are flawed which I don't think happened on Sunday. Yes it was frustrating that the race ended behind the safety car but sometimes that is just how it is.
My argument is that the race begins when the red lights go out and ends at the chequered flag, everything in between is the race. A situation requiring a safety car or VSC can occur at any point, scramble the order, mess up strategies etc, just because it happens near the end of the race doesn't make it any different to it happening at any other time. Complicating the rules and creating additional complications to solve a situation that is very infrequent and will still leave situations where a green finish is not possible doesn't seem worth it. Keep it as simple as possible.
If you really want to remove the safety car as a variable, you have to get rid of it altogether. Red flag everything that previously needed a safety car, then line everyone up on the grid. Individual drivers get a green light on their steering wheel according to the gaps that existed at the time the red flag was thrown.
I don't actually think that's the right approach. A driver gets lucky with some safety cars and unlucky with others.
I don't actually think that's the right approach. A driver gets lucky with some safety cars and unlucky with others.
I also think it's fine. Specifically addressing Silverstones last laps, their intention was to get some racing but it didn't happen in the time remaining and ignoring the graphic it never looked like Leclerc thought otherwise as he tootled around behind the safety car.
Is there an argument that lapped cars could potentially just be let through immediately? Maybe, but this poses potentially increased safety risks and probably doesn't even save that much time in most situations.
If I was to change anything, I'm still not keen on the VSC layer so it could be removed for me, but otherwise it is what it is.
Is there an argument that lapped cars could potentially just be let through immediately? Maybe, but this poses potentially increased safety risks and probably doesn't even save that much time in most situations.
If I was to change anything, I'm still not keen on the VSC layer so it could be removed for me, but otherwise it is what it is.
There were 4 laps remaining. The safety car needs a minimum of 2 laps AFTER the incident is cleared up to restart the race.
So the only options to me are to red flag it immediately if within say 5 laps from the end (circuit dependant due to differing laps lengths). Or change the procedure to move lapped cars, (running them through the pits or getting them to move to one side so everyone else can overtake), both of those options can be run while the incident is being cleared safely.
That would have given us at Silverstone either a 4 lap sprint standing start, or 2 laps after the SC came in. Both massively preferable to the current way its run. So unless teams protest the change I cant see why they wouldn't change it.
So the only options to me are to red flag it immediately if within say 5 laps from the end (circuit dependant due to differing laps lengths). Or change the procedure to move lapped cars, (running them through the pits or getting them to move to one side so everyone else can overtake), both of those options can be run while the incident is being cleared safely.
That would have given us at Silverstone either a 4 lap sprint standing start, or 2 laps after the SC came in. Both massively preferable to the current way its run. So unless teams protest the change I cant see why they wouldn't change it.
Lapped cars should peel off into the pit lane to shuffle them to the back.
It annoying that it takes so long to clear a car, even with top marshals like Silverstone has. Every corner should have escape roads with a cable winch, and cars fitted with towing eyes front and back. Car stops, marshal runs out with the winch hook and it drags the car out of the way in 30 secs under double waved yellows.
It annoying that it takes so long to clear a car, even with top marshals like Silverstone has. Every corner should have escape roads with a cable winch, and cars fitted with towing eyes front and back. Car stops, marshal runs out with the winch hook and it drags the car out of the way in 30 secs under double waved yellows.
Just posted this in the British GP post before i saw this.
I think the answer to this is quite simple.
1. deploy safety car
2. clear whatever issue needs to be cleared.
3. restart the race the next time the cars go over the start/finish line once the issue has been cleared and it is safe to resume racing.
Lapped cars do not need to be allowed to overtake/drop to the back of the field or anything else. They are in the same position they were when the SC was deployed (may be some changes due to pit stops but that's racing and the decision made by the teams to either pit or not). All cars have had the gap to the car in front reduced so have gained on them. If the SC had not been deployed they would still have had a lapped car in between so there is no difference, they would have had to overtake it anyway.
Problem with lapped cars solved.
Simples!
The race director should be able to determine fairly quickly if a late incident will end up with a SC finish and call a Red flag to ensure a racing finish. If it looks close, do it anyway BUT, don't allow tyre changes or any repairs to be done.
Then again, what do I know.
I think the answer to this is quite simple.
1. deploy safety car
2. clear whatever issue needs to be cleared.
3. restart the race the next time the cars go over the start/finish line once the issue has been cleared and it is safe to resume racing.
Lapped cars do not need to be allowed to overtake/drop to the back of the field or anything else. They are in the same position they were when the SC was deployed (may be some changes due to pit stops but that's racing and the decision made by the teams to either pit or not). All cars have had the gap to the car in front reduced so have gained on them. If the SC had not been deployed they would still have had a lapped car in between so there is no difference, they would have had to overtake it anyway.
Problem with lapped cars solved.
Simples!
The race director should be able to determine fairly quickly if a late incident will end up with a SC finish and call a Red flag to ensure a racing finish. If it looks close, do it anyway BUT, don't allow tyre changes or any repairs to be done.
Then again, what do I know.
You’re describing pre 2012 F1.
The rationale was to remove back markers from impeding the pack at restart.
I don’t agree with it, getting past back markers is part of race craft and it certainly hasn’t reduced the risk of incident on restart. The only impact it has had is on public reaction when there’s an incident such as this and removes a lap of actual racing to every safety car period.
Disappointing end as a Hamilton fan but 2 Brits on the podium of the British GP and a win in Mexico has to be a decent weekend really.
The rationale was to remove back markers from impeding the pack at restart.
I don’t agree with it, getting past back markers is part of race craft and it certainly hasn’t reduced the risk of incident on restart. The only impact it has had is on public reaction when there’s an incident such as this and removes a lap of actual racing to every safety car period.
Disappointing end as a Hamilton fan but 2 Brits on the podium of the British GP and a win in Mexico has to be a decent weekend really.
realjv said:
I wouldn't do anything unless a situation arose which showed that the current rules are flawed which I don't think happened on Sunday. Yes it was frustrating that the race ended behind the safety car but sometimes that is just how it is.
My argument is that the race begins when the red lights go out and ends at the chequered flag, everything in between is the race. A situation requiring a safety car or VSC can occur at any point, scramble the order, mess up strategies etc, just because it happens near the end of the race doesn't make it any different to it happening at any other time. Complicating the rules and creating additional complications to solve a situation that is very infrequent and will still leave situations where a green finish is not possible doesn't seem worth it. Keep it as simple as possible.
I agree with this. Sport should be allowed to play out according to the rules and if that means you experience the odd anti climax once in a blue moon then so be it. I’d prefer this to rule makers falling over themselves trying to contrive grandstand finishes which only serves to remove sporting integrity *coughAbuDhabi21*My argument is that the race begins when the red lights go out and ends at the chequered flag, everything in between is the race. A situation requiring a safety car or VSC can occur at any point, scramble the order, mess up strategies etc, just because it happens near the end of the race doesn't make it any different to it happening at any other time. Complicating the rules and creating additional complications to solve a situation that is very infrequent and will still leave situations where a green finish is not possible doesn't seem worth it. Keep it as simple as possible.
I don’t think it’s a frequent enough occurrence to warrant a change in the rules and if a safety grounds call for a safety car, then that takes precedence over all else.
Other sports survive with no score draws, F1 should be no different
The only thing the FIA got wrong this weekend was the incorrect message that the Safety Car was coming in. Other than that it followed the rules to a T, unlike AD 2021. When Max went off, I said to my wife that isn’t restarting. The marshals did a cracking job of recovering the car, but sorting out the mess that is the lap runners always takes ~ 5 laps.
The real irony being Hamilton got, potentially, screwed again.
But that is how the rules are.
If I was going to make one change, it would be drop the lapped runners to the back. It would be a lot faster, but they do miss on the, potentially unfair, advantage of being able to unlap themselves.
The real irony being Hamilton got, potentially, screwed again.
But that is how the rules are.
If I was going to make one change, it would be drop the lapped runners to the back. It would be a lot faster, but they do miss on the, potentially unfair, advantage of being able to unlap themselves.
I thought yesterday was just part of racing. Decisions made by Ferrari could have very well worked within their favour a different day, but just not yesterday. Some fans are only annoyed because of the messaging error and the fact that Lewis lost out.
I think in every situation someone would feel aggrieved.
There's 2 benefits of having a Red flag if a safety car is required within say 5 laps to the end, 1 is higher probability of finishing under racing conditions and probably most importantly is the predictability for the strategists.
I think in every situation someone would feel aggrieved.
There's 2 benefits of having a Red flag if a safety car is required within say 5 laps to the end, 1 is higher probability of finishing under racing conditions and probably most importantly is the predictability for the strategists.
gmaz said:
Lapped cars should peel off into the pit lane to shuffle them to the back.
It annoying that it takes so long to clear a car, even with top marshals like Silverstone has. Every corner should have escape roads with a cable winch, and cars fitted with towing eyes front and back. Car stops, marshal runs out with the winch hook and it drags the car out of the way in 30 secs under double waved yellows.
I have seen someone dragging a car across the road on a normal trolly jack. Meanwhile retrieving a car in f1 is like planning the apollo 13 recovery at mission control lol. It annoying that it takes so long to clear a car, even with top marshals like Silverstone has. Every corner should have escape roads with a cable winch, and cars fitted with towing eyes front and back. Car stops, marshal runs out with the winch hook and it drags the car out of the way in 30 secs under double waved yellows.
Zetec-S said:
Add the number of laps completed under the safety car to the end of the race, and then bring back refuelling 
This ^^^^^^^But simply make the teams aware that any safety car laps will be added to the end of the race.
It's then up to the teams to make sure they allow for safety car laps when fuelling at the start.
It shouldn't make a huge difference, as they must be using far more fuel at race pace than at safety car pace.
I know it's a different category, but they do something like this in BTCC races.
I haven't thought this through so may be a reason why it might not work but.....
Hazard is cleared by which time you have all cars line astern behind the safety car. At a point the safety car driver deems safe, he instructs all cars to move to the left go the track with lapped cars moving to the right. The lapped cars hang back allowing the lead cars to move ahead and when they all do, the lapped cars then fall into line behind them.
This would complete a sequence that currently takes two laps in half a lap.
Hazard is cleared by which time you have all cars line astern behind the safety car. At a point the safety car driver deems safe, he instructs all cars to move to the left go the track with lapped cars moving to the right. The lapped cars hang back allowing the lead cars to move ahead and when they all do, the lapped cars then fall into line behind them.
This would complete a sequence that currently takes two laps in half a lap.
StevieBee said:
I haven't thought this through so may be a reason why it might not work but.....
Hazard is cleared by which time you have all cars line astern behind the safety car. At a point the safety car driver deems safe, he instructs all cars to move to the left go the track with lapped cars moving to the right. The lapped cars hang back allowing the lead cars to move ahead and when they all do, the lapped cars then fall into line behind them.
This would complete a sequence that currently takes two laps in half a lap.
Was going to type pretty much the same thing.Hazard is cleared by which time you have all cars line astern behind the safety car. At a point the safety car driver deems safe, he instructs all cars to move to the left go the track with lapped cars moving to the right. The lapped cars hang back allowing the lead cars to move ahead and when they all do, the lapped cars then fall into line behind them.
This would complete a sequence that currently takes two laps in half a lap.
SC declares it is coming in before end of current lap. Crossing the start finish line, lapped cars pull over to designated side and slow. Lead cars move through, lapped cars drop to back.
Then they have one full lap to prep battery, tyres, brakes etc.
Next time over the line it is green.
Could also have a rule that any SC within the last ten laps but minimum of 3 laps left the race can be red flagged and a restart takes place.
Or. You just accept the order the cars are in they are given one full lap notice of restart. They just run in the order they were in and deal with it.
We all want to see racing to the chequered flag and there would still be times this wouldn't work, but it might help races with 5 or 6 laps left to run:
- Safety car collects all the cars behind it as it currently does
- lapped cars shuffle back to the back of the pack on the clear bits of track
This takes maybe 2 laps maximum
- safety car pulls into the pits once the cars are in the right order
- everyone stops in the fast lane of the pits - no tyre changes/other work allowed (they would need to cool the cars when stopped still so can't really say no mechanics touch the cars)
- when the incident is cleared - one out lap behind the safety car to give everyone chance to warm tyres back up a bit
- safety car restart the same way it currently runs
Process complete in 3 laps
- Safety car collects all the cars behind it as it currently does
- lapped cars shuffle back to the back of the pack on the clear bits of track
This takes maybe 2 laps maximum
- safety car pulls into the pits once the cars are in the right order
- everyone stops in the fast lane of the pits - no tyre changes/other work allowed (they would need to cool the cars when stopped still so can't really say no mechanics touch the cars)
- when the incident is cleared - one out lap behind the safety car to give everyone chance to warm tyres back up a bit
- safety car restart the same way it currently runs
Process complete in 3 laps
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