elise sc vs 220
Discussion
Hi all,
Looking for anyone that can chime in with some experience on these variants. I’ve been looking for a few cars and one of them is an na exige/111r but keep on finding them very close to price to the sc and 220 variants around where I live.
This is would be a purely for fun car, so weekend b road drives and track days. Have some Elise ownership experience in the past, k series only.
Any issues with reliability if I keep the supercharged cars stock engine wise? I want to track them often but keep on reading that they suffer with heat soak and there’s nothing that can be done to mitigate this? I figured that id be ok if I add a baffled sump and buy a car that’s already had the gearbox sorted?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for anyone that can chime in with some experience on these variants. I’ve been looking for a few cars and one of them is an na exige/111r but keep on finding them very close to price to the sc and 220 variants around where I live.
This is would be a purely for fun car, so weekend b road drives and track days. Have some Elise ownership experience in the past, k series only.
Any issues with reliability if I keep the supercharged cars stock engine wise? I want to track them often but keep on reading that they suffer with heat soak and there’s nothing that can be done to mitigate this? I figured that id be ok if I add a baffled sump and buy a car that’s already had the gearbox sorted?
Thanks in advance!
I would strongly recommend a N/A , 189 Bhp Elise R ( also called 111R)
Mine is an S3 , but most are the S2 version.
For fun driving in the UK , I find that almost nothing is better ( the exception being an Atom 4, but that is really a motorcycle).
Mainly because the gear ratios were perfectly chosen by Lotus , and because you have to work the engine and gears ( which in my case makes it better than the faster , sc cars , for fun use ,as you don’t arrive at whatever speed limit too quickly)
My current points of reference are the Atom 4, Toyota MR2 mk3, 981S, KTM XBow and a couple of V12 Lambo.
The Elise R is outstanding against them all as it is NARROW, supple , USABLE and you have to work it = FUN .
I can’t recommend it enough .
Mine is an S3 , but most are the S2 version.
For fun driving in the UK , I find that almost nothing is better ( the exception being an Atom 4, but that is really a motorcycle).
Mainly because the gear ratios were perfectly chosen by Lotus , and because you have to work the engine and gears ( which in my case makes it better than the faster , sc cars , for fun use ,as you don’t arrive at whatever speed limit too quickly)
My current points of reference are the Atom 4, Toyota MR2 mk3, 981S, KTM XBow and a couple of V12 Lambo.
The Elise R is outstanding against them all as it is NARROW, supple , USABLE and you have to work it = FUN .
I can’t recommend it enough .
I had a 111R with an itg intake and nice exhaust, I liked it but didn't love it.
Just a bit too hard-core for my tastes but did enjoy experiencing it, you do have to work it to get the performance.
I had a ride in an Exige before purchasing it and loved the extra sparkle of the supercharger.
If I were to do it again I would go straight for the supercharged engine.
It's been said many times the K series engine probably suits the car better.
Just a bit too hard-core for my tastes but did enjoy experiencing it, you do have to work it to get the performance.
I had a ride in an Exige before purchasing it and loved the extra sparkle of the supercharger.
If I were to do it again I would go straight for the supercharged engine.
It's been said many times the K series engine probably suits the car better.
Interesting Belle427 - I had a test drive at Bell and Colvill of a SC and an NA within minutes of each other and far preferred the 2 ZZ in unaspirated form
Horses for courses.
I loved and love the fact that the NA allows you to work the gears more before being held back by any given speed limit
AND,
also the 2ZZ at full scream , 8500rpm transient/ 8000+ constant, is truly addictive.
Jim Valentine ar 2bular built a backbox set at Loud for me, and it transforms the my Chrome Orange Elise such that I now call it a mini-Murcielago.
As the OP is after fun more than speed, a na 2ZZ should be considered.
OP - these cars are out there, but you have to be patient .
Horses for courses.
I loved and love the fact that the NA allows you to work the gears more before being held back by any given speed limit
AND,
also the 2ZZ at full scream , 8500rpm transient/ 8000+ constant, is truly addictive.
Jim Valentine ar 2bular built a backbox set at Loud for me, and it transforms the my Chrome Orange Elise such that I now call it a mini-Murcielago.
As the OP is after fun more than speed, a na 2ZZ should be considered.
OP - these cars are out there, but you have to be patient .
Belle427 said:
I had a 111R with an itg intake and nice exhaust, I liked it but didn't love it.
Just a bit too hard-core for my tastes but did enjoy experiencing it, you do have to work it to get the performance.
I had a ride in an Exige before purchasing it and loved the extra sparkle of the supercharger.
If I were to do it again I would go straight for the supercharged engine.
It's been said many times the K series engine probably suits the car better.
I had a regular s2 with a k series and didn’t rate the engine at all in stock form - it was torquey but I think it missed the more revvy character that I love about the 2zz engines. I did try a ptp 165 s1 ages ago and that was a lot of fun, so I wouldn’t dismiss getting a k series and modding it but I’d prefer just having something stock and changing the exhaust and spend the rest of the money on chassis mods. Just a bit too hard-core for my tastes but did enjoy experiencing it, you do have to work it to get the performance.
I had a ride in an Exige before purchasing it and loved the extra sparkle of the supercharger.
If I were to do it again I would go straight for the supercharged engine.
It's been said many times the K series engine probably suits the car better.
carspath1 said:
Interesting Belle427 - I had a test drive at Bell and Colvill of a SC and an NA within minutes of each other and far preferred the 2 ZZ in unaspirated form
Horses for courses.
I loved and love the fact that the NA allows you to work the gears more before being held back by any given speed limit
AND,
also the 2ZZ at full scream , 8500rpm transient/ 8000+ constant, is truly addictive.
Jim Valentine ar 2bular built a backbox set at Loud for me, and it transforms the my Chrome Orange Elise such that I now call it a mini-Murcielago.
As the OP is after fun more than speed, a na 2ZZ should be considered.
OP - these cars are out there, but you have to be patient .
I love both NA and SC variants, at this stage I’m just after the best example I can find in my budget. Horses for courses.
I loved and love the fact that the NA allows you to work the gears more before being held back by any given speed limit
AND,
also the 2ZZ at full scream , 8500rpm transient/ 8000+ constant, is truly addictive.
Jim Valentine ar 2bular built a backbox set at Loud for me, and it transforms the my Chrome Orange Elise such that I now call it a mini-Murcielago.
As the OP is after fun more than speed, a na 2ZZ should be considered.
OP - these cars are out there, but you have to be patient .
I found for example in the same price range, a lovely 111r, a tired na exige s2, an Elise sc and an Elise 220, so I’m considering the sc variants at this stage - just wondering if they’d be reliable on track or if they’d run into heat soak issues
Loafers92 said:
I love both NA and SC variants, at this stage I m just after the best example I can find in my budget.
I found for example in the same price range, a lovely 111r, a tired na exige s2, an Elise sc and an Elise 220, so I m considering the sc variants at this stage - just wondering if they d be reliable on track or if they d run into heat soak issues
We ran a Elise S3 SC RGB (2zz-ge with mp45 supercharger ) on track from 2019 to 2020 in standard for appx 8 TDs a year, then added a full Simpson exhaust 2021-2022 but 10 TDs a year before putting a EMU black ecu and a custom map to 260bhp in, also put KAAZ full gear set, final and Quaife , lightweight flywheel and competition clutch that ran until April 2025 10 TDs a year.I found for example in the same price range, a lovely 111r, a tired na exige s2, an Elise sc and an Elise 220, so I m considering the sc variants at this stage - just wondering if they d be reliable on track or if they d run into heat soak issues
We lost piston 1 on the Donnington straight 7th April 2025, upon stripping the engine it appears to have been a flaw in the piston. We replaced the engine as the supercharger was goosed with bits of piston and bore score so the block was done. Engine that went in was fu;;y build with darlton sleeves and very nice bits from monkey wrench racing, with a BOE REV400 supercharger kit added making 350bhp at the wheels which was very lively, but unfortunately too loud for drive by , so sold it and it now does time attack and hill climbs/sprinting
matt5964 said:
Loafers92 said:
I love both NA and SC variants, at this stage I m just after the best example I can find in my budget.
I found for example in the same price range, a lovely 111r, a tired na exige s2, an Elise sc and an Elise 220, so I m considering the sc variants at this stage - just wondering if they d be reliable on track or if they d run into heat soak issues
We ran a Elise S3 SC RGB (2zz-ge with mp45 supercharger ) on track from 2019 to 2020 in standard for appx 8 TDs a year, then added a full Simpson exhaust 2021-2022 but 10 TDs a year before putting a EMU black ecu and a custom map to 260bhp in, also put KAAZ full gear set, final and Quaife , lightweight flywheel and competition clutch that ran until April 2025 10 TDs a year.I found for example in the same price range, a lovely 111r, a tired na exige s2, an Elise sc and an Elise 220, so I m considering the sc variants at this stage - just wondering if they d be reliable on track or if they d run into heat soak issues
We lost piston 1 on the Donnington straight 7th April 2025, upon stripping the engine it appears to have been a flaw in the piston. We replaced the engine as the supercharger was goosed with bits of piston and bore score so the block was done. Engine that went in was fu;;y build with darlton sleeves and very nice bits from monkey wrench racing, with a BOE REV400 supercharger kit added making 350bhp at the wheels which was very lively, but unfortunately too loud for drive by , so sold it and it now does time attack and hill climbs/sprinting
How was the performance on track before the built block went in? I imagine you were running it without an intercooler?
There are a bunch of "S2.5" cars out there, with the S3 facelift, but still the 2ZZ before the change to 2ZR.
If you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
If you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
Loafers92 said:
Seems like an awesome setup you had there, shame it was too loud in the end.
How was the performance on track before the built block went in? I imagine you were running it without an intercooler?
Yes it ran without intercooler on stock mp45 charger until the rev400 kit which had front mounted charge coolerHow was the performance on track before the built block went in? I imagine you were running it without an intercooler?
The sweet spot was the 260bhp KAAZ and quaife set up really nice balance until the piston gave up it ran all day no issues even in hot days
Just the right amount of power, road and track was always a great experience
To be honest the rev400 was massively overkill and in really ruined the balance of the car it was brutal and became a thug
We have now moved to an Alpine A110S with some choice upgrades and it’s an astonishing good bit of kit punches above its stats suggest and probably the best of road and track capabilities I have found without going to GT3 money
Jermy Claxon said:
There are a bunch of "S2.5" cars out there, with the S3 facelift, but still the 2ZZ before the change to 2ZR.
If you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
Jon seal has a non charged one just listedIf you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
https://www.jonsealsportscars.com/cars/lotus/elise...
Hi JermyClaxon - that 2.5 is a term I had never heard of until today, but it is exactly what I,ve got : a 2ZZ engine in a Chrome Orange S3 body.
I,d always considered it as a S3.1 ( vs a S3.2 for those cars with the ZR engine and an S3 body).
As you say, there weren’t many of these 2.5 / 3.1cars produced - I think that they were only produced in 2010 and maybe 2011, but the high revving 2ZZ engine is thrilling at high revs.
I haven’t found there to be the oft-complained about lack of torque - you just HAVE to be in the correct gear at all times.
I,d always considered it as a S3.1 ( vs a S3.2 for those cars with the ZR engine and an S3 body).
As you say, there weren’t many of these 2.5 / 3.1cars produced - I think that they were only produced in 2010 and maybe 2011, but the high revving 2ZZ engine is thrilling at high revs.
I haven’t found there to be the oft-complained about lack of torque - you just HAVE to be in the correct gear at all times.
Jermy Claxon said:
There are a bunch of "S2.5" cars out there, with the S3 facelift, but still the 2ZZ before the change to 2ZR.
If you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
You would have thought thease guys would know the model there selling is pritty much unicorn status…must be the awful AT platform as there website says it…If you can find one of those beauties, then you should grab it!
The RGB edition falls into this category, but there are also other non-RGB cars which also have the S3 + 2ZZ combo.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202605282...
https://www.woodcoteandcopse.co.uk/used-car-detail...
carspath1 said:
Hi JermyClaxon - that 2.5 is a term I had never heard of until today, but it is exactly what I,ve got : a 2ZZ engine in a Chrome Orange S3 body.
I,d always considered it as a S3.1 ( vs a S3.2 for those cars with the ZR engine and an S3 body).
As you say, there weren t many of these 2.5 / 3.1cars produced - I think that they were only produced in 2010 and maybe 2011, but the high revving 2ZZ engine is thrilling at high revs.
I haven t found there to be the oft-complained about lack of torque - you just HAVE to be in the correct gear at all times.
I just made up the S2.5 term, so S3.1 makes just as much sense. Congrats on your unicorn! I believe there are only 3 in orange, and I know where another one is. Rarest of the rare! Best Elise derivative I have ever driven! I,d always considered it as a S3.1 ( vs a S3.2 for those cars with the ZR engine and an S3 body).
As you say, there weren t many of these 2.5 / 3.1cars produced - I think that they were only produced in 2010 and maybe 2011, but the high revving 2ZZ engine is thrilling at high revs.
I haven t found there to be the oft-complained about lack of torque - you just HAVE to be in the correct gear at all times.
Jermy Claxon said:
I just made up the S2.5 term, so S3.1 makes just as much sense. Congrats on your unicorn! I believe there are only 3 in orange, and I know where another one is. Rarest of the rare! Best Elise derivative I have ever driven!
The S2.5 term is a well known one for the cross over platform, for the S3 body’s with 2zz running gear were describedAs they bridge the transition from one series to another
Hi again Jermy Claxon,
Thats really interesting to me :
1) regarding the number of naturally-aspirated Series 3 R
2) the number of Chrome Orange ones of the same
Is the one you know of in Scotland?
I havent come across one here in South-West England.
Thank you
PS : Where did you get these numbers/approximations from please?
Thats really interesting to me :
1) regarding the number of naturally-aspirated Series 3 R
2) the number of Chrome Orange ones of the same
Is the one you know of in Scotland?
I havent come across one here in South-West England.
Thank you
PS : Where did you get these numbers/approximations from please?
Thanks everyone for the replies, much appreciated as I try to figure out what to get at this stage!
As usual, budget creep has appeared so now also looking at a few v6 exiges at the bottom of the market and a couple of 220 cups….lord please help me.
I found a cup 220 that’s been remapped to 260 hp, no idea who’s tuned it - are these engines that can go pop if modified? Perhaps better to keep them stock or only modify them via komotec?
Anyone have any experience with the first v6 exiges - running costs if tracked, what to expect reliability wise, etc? I’m only looking at LHD cars so only eu market
Still seriously tempted by an early sc as the engine sounds fabulous though.
As usual, budget creep has appeared so now also looking at a few v6 exiges at the bottom of the market and a couple of 220 cups….lord please help me.
I found a cup 220 that’s been remapped to 260 hp, no idea who’s tuned it - are these engines that can go pop if modified? Perhaps better to keep them stock or only modify them via komotec?
Anyone have any experience with the first v6 exiges - running costs if tracked, what to expect reliability wise, etc? I’m only looking at LHD cars so only eu market
Still seriously tempted by an early sc as the engine sounds fabulous though.
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