987.2 Cayman for road and track?
Discussion
Hi all, in my search for a car that can be reasonably good at doing trackdays 6 times a year as well as being used for fun intense drives and the occasional roadtrip, I've so far narrowed it down to either an alpine a110 or a 987.2 cayman, perhaps even an s2 exige if I can find one in good condition (im in europe so harder to find)
Im coming from a 2023 mx5 nd2 2 liter, which I like a lot because of how light it is, and the performance is quite decent on track now that its modified, but the gearbox issues its had and will probably have again really put me off it and Im selling it off before it goes out of warranty. It's a shame as it's otherwise a great car.
I tried a 987.2 cayman s a few days ago, manual gearbox and pasm equipped, with 45k miles on the clock. The car looked like it was in good condition and had 2 year old pilot sport 4 tires, the suspension arms looked good and the radiators as well, but the car vibrated at speed and honestly felt very uninspiring to drive - not very responsive or direct. Are they all like that or should I put that down to age of components? Apparently nothing has been replaced chassis wise, so should I expect a potential big bill to refresh the suspension? It was a higher priced example too.
I am looking at the 2.9 models as well as Im not really fussed about power, just want something that can be at the very least as fast as the mx5, while being reliable for my use case.
What modifications would it need? I've read so far suspension, lower control arms for added camber, brake ducts, brake pads and fluids, perhaps discs...
Thanks in advance!
Im coming from a 2023 mx5 nd2 2 liter, which I like a lot because of how light it is, and the performance is quite decent on track now that its modified, but the gearbox issues its had and will probably have again really put me off it and Im selling it off before it goes out of warranty. It's a shame as it's otherwise a great car.
I tried a 987.2 cayman s a few days ago, manual gearbox and pasm equipped, with 45k miles on the clock. The car looked like it was in good condition and had 2 year old pilot sport 4 tires, the suspension arms looked good and the radiators as well, but the car vibrated at speed and honestly felt very uninspiring to drive - not very responsive or direct. Are they all like that or should I put that down to age of components? Apparently nothing has been replaced chassis wise, so should I expect a potential big bill to refresh the suspension? It was a higher priced example too.
I am looking at the 2.9 models as well as Im not really fussed about power, just want something that can be at the very least as fast as the mx5, while being reliable for my use case.
What modifications would it need? I've read so far suspension, lower control arms for added camber, brake ducts, brake pads and fluids, perhaps discs...
Thanks in advance!
Loafers92 said:
..... a car that can be reasonably good at doing trackdays 6 times a year as well as being used for fun intense drives and the occasional roadtrip
Just my personal opinion, but for the trackdays and intense drives I'd consider an Elise, for the roadtrip the Cayman would be brilliant especially for the luggage capacity which is immense. I'm lucky enough to have both a 987.2 Boxster and a high powered Caterham. From experience it's hard to defy the laws of physics when you're braking hard on track or driving twisties, don't get me wrong, the 987 is an incredibly capable car but it shows it's mass when you're trying to throw it around. Probably not a popular opinion on a Porsche forum!I have an A110S and a 987.2 Boxster Spyder. The Alpine struggles for road trips on real world roads as the suspension is a bit too firm for long successive days of driving, and luggage space is minimal. It is however excellent for solo weekend or day trips around the mountains where you don’t have to worry about your passenger throwing up. Perhaps the standard model hits a happier medium.
The 987.2 Porsche feels more ‘vintage’, noticeably heavier and less agile (despite being their lightest model at the time), but the hydraulic steering is reassuringly weighty, suspension is more compliant, luggage space is bigger and more usable, the engine howls gorgeously, and it’s arguably a much prettier car
Next month I’ll be driving on my own across to St Moritz and back (800km 2-day trip via some renowned Alpine passes) and will take the Spyder. But for a 3 hour Sunday morning blast around the Jura or a day at the Circuit de Bresse, the Alpine would be my choice.
I’m not sure that one “track day and road trip” car is easy to find; it probably depends on how many compromises you are willing to make for either role.
The 987.2 Porsche feels more ‘vintage’, noticeably heavier and less agile (despite being their lightest model at the time), but the hydraulic steering is reassuringly weighty, suspension is more compliant, luggage space is bigger and more usable, the engine howls gorgeously, and it’s arguably a much prettier car
Next month I’ll be driving on my own across to St Moritz and back (800km 2-day trip via some renowned Alpine passes) and will take the Spyder. But for a 3 hour Sunday morning blast around the Jura or a day at the Circuit de Bresse, the Alpine would be my choice.
I’m not sure that one “track day and road trip” car is easy to find; it probably depends on how many compromises you are willing to make for either role.
V7SLR said:
Just my personal opinion, but for the trackdays and intense drives I'd consider an Elise, for the roadtrip the Cayman would be brilliant especially for the luggage capacity which is immense. I'm lucky enough to have both a 987.2 Boxster and a high powered Caterham. From experience it's hard to defy the laws of physics when you're braking hard on track or driving twisties, don't get me wrong, the 987 is an incredibly capable car but it shows it's mass when you're trying to throw it around. Probably not a popular opinion on a Porsche forum!
Yea, that's the feeling I have as well, was hoping someone would have any experience with a lightly modded one to tell me that it is in fact possible to get them to feel not as "heavy" or unreactive. Maybe I just drove a bad one, who knows. I do like the idea of an Elise/Exige/Caterham and Cayman combo though...!Michael_B said:
I have an A110S and a 987.2 Boxster Spyder. The Alpine struggles for road trips on real world roads as the suspension is a bit too firm for long successive days of driving, and luggage space is minimal. It is however excellent for solo weekend or day trips around the mountains where you don t have to worry about your passenger throwing up. Perhaps the standard model hits a happier medium.
The 987.2 Porsche feels more vintage , noticeably heavier and less agile (despite being their lightest model at the time), but the hydraulic steering is reassuringly weighty, suspension is more compliant, luggage space is bigger and more usable, the engine howls gorgeously, and it s arguably a much prettier car
Next month I ll be driving on my own across to St Moritz and back (800km 2-day trip via some renowned Alpine passes) and will take the Spyder. But for a 3 hour Sunday morning blast around the Jura or a day at the Circuit de Bresse, the Alpine would be my choice.
I m not sure that one track day and road trip car is easy to find; it probably depends on how many compromises you are willing to make for either role.
Great garage - reminds me of a friend that has a similar line up in his collection. I agree with you on how difficult it is to find a one car to do it all, I think its best to have a specific car to do one thing (if funds allow for it) and I think thats what I should aim for. The 987.2 Porsche feels more vintage , noticeably heavier and less agile (despite being their lightest model at the time), but the hydraulic steering is reassuringly weighty, suspension is more compliant, luggage space is bigger and more usable, the engine howls gorgeously, and it s arguably a much prettier car
Next month I ll be driving on my own across to St Moritz and back (800km 2-day trip via some renowned Alpine passes) and will take the Spyder. But for a 3 hour Sunday morning blast around the Jura or a day at the Circuit de Bresse, the Alpine would be my choice.
I m not sure that one track day and road trip car is easy to find; it probably depends on how many compromises you are willing to make for either role.
My mx5 is modified, quite fun to drive at the Bresse circuit and surprisingly quick (or surprisingly not that slow?) I bought it as a temporary car to be a bit sensible,but the pull to get something more focused/special is becoming too hard to resist.
987s feel awfully dull on the 18s and 19s. If you want to wake up a 987 and make it feel agile, more direct and a bit Lotus like on the road, 17s make a dramatic difference, really dramatic.
Not a popular mod because aesthetic considerations tend to dominate. But if you go down that path, you're then into tyre sizes. Personally, think going nearly square 225/50 front, 235/50 rear is best overall and maintains correct rolling radius. The factory 17-inch spec is 205/55 front, 235/50 rear. The super skinny factory fronts do elevate the steering feel even further. But the 225s retain most of that while taking out understeer and making the front end more positive and confidence inspiring. Braking is a bit dicey, even on the road, with the factory 205 fronts.
For track, you'd probably want to go wider and maybe have larger 18-inch wheels for that. Depends on exactly what experience you are after. As for other track prep, well, how much do you want to spend, how involved do you want to get. The safest affordable option is Cayman R springs, dampers and rear ARB. Not really true track spec, but an absolutely known quantity that works, fits and is certainly an upgrade over the standard springs and dampers.
Otherwise, you're into Ohlins R/T or KW, unless you want to get really spendy with Tractive or whatever. Personally, I would advise again Bilstein B16 for the 987. It's the same kit they released in about 2005 for the 987, hasn't been updated and is, frankly, a bit crap.
Of course, all of this is pretty notional when you don't have access to a 987.2 to try it all out. But will say I get where you are coming from regarding you 987 impressions. They are distinctly underwhelming in factory trim. But the core car and platform is very good and they do respond extremely well to well considered changes, many of which aren't hugely expensive. The 17-inch wheels can be had almost for free. But that's a leap of faith that I could well understand someone deciding to pass on.
Not a popular mod because aesthetic considerations tend to dominate. But if you go down that path, you're then into tyre sizes. Personally, think going nearly square 225/50 front, 235/50 rear is best overall and maintains correct rolling radius. The factory 17-inch spec is 205/55 front, 235/50 rear. The super skinny factory fronts do elevate the steering feel even further. But the 225s retain most of that while taking out understeer and making the front end more positive and confidence inspiring. Braking is a bit dicey, even on the road, with the factory 205 fronts.
For track, you'd probably want to go wider and maybe have larger 18-inch wheels for that. Depends on exactly what experience you are after. As for other track prep, well, how much do you want to spend, how involved do you want to get. The safest affordable option is Cayman R springs, dampers and rear ARB. Not really true track spec, but an absolutely known quantity that works, fits and is certainly an upgrade over the standard springs and dampers.
Otherwise, you're into Ohlins R/T or KW, unless you want to get really spendy with Tractive or whatever. Personally, I would advise again Bilstein B16 for the 987. It's the same kit they released in about 2005 for the 987, hasn't been updated and is, frankly, a bit crap.
Of course, all of this is pretty notional when you don't have access to a 987.2 to try it all out. But will say I get where you are coming from regarding you 987 impressions. They are distinctly underwhelming in factory trim. But the core car and platform is very good and they do respond extremely well to well considered changes, many of which aren't hugely expensive. The 17-inch wheels can be had almost for free. But that's a leap of faith that I could well understand someone deciding to pass on.
Loafers92 said:
My mx5 is modified, quite fun to drive at the Bresse circuit
My weekend/holiday place is ~15 minutes from the Circuit de Bresse, as I take the A39/A40 from Geneva to Le Miroir each time we go. I’ll be driving there just for the day (in the Tesla due to luggage constraints 
) tomorrow, to water the garden ; it will be up to 38C most of next week!That’s quite a distance from the UK, what brought/brings you down this way in the MX-5?
housemouse said:
987s feel awfully dull on the 18s and 19s. If you want to wake up a 987 and make it feel agile, more direct and a bit Lotus like on the road, 17s make a dramatic difference, really dramatic.
Not a popular mod because aesthetic considerations tend to dominate. But if you go down that path, you're then into tyre sizes. Personally, think going nearly square 225/50 front, 235/50 rear is best overall and maintains correct rolling radius. The factory 17-inch spec is 205/55 front, 235/50 rear. The super skinny factory fronts do elevate the steering feel even further. But the 225s retain most of that while taking out understeer and making the front end more positive and confidence inspiring. Braking is a bit dicey, even on the road, with the factory 205 fronts.
For track, you'd probably want to go wider and maybe have larger 18-inch wheels for that. Depends on exactly what experience you are after. As for other track prep, well, how much do you want to spend, how involved do you want to get. The safest affordable option is Cayman R springs, dampers and rear ARB. Not really true track spec, but an absolutely known quantity that works, fits and is certainly an upgrade over the standard springs and dampers.
Otherwise, you're into Ohlins R/T or KW, unless you want to get really spendy with Tractive or whatever. Personally, I would advise again Bilstein B16 for the 987. It's the same kit they released in about 2005 for the 987, hasn't been updated and is, frankly, a bit crap.
Of course, all of this is pretty notional when you don't have access to a 987.2 to try it all out. But will say I get where you are coming from regarding you 987 impressions. They are distinctly underwhelming in factory trim. But the core car and platform is very good and they do respond extremely well to well considered changes, many of which aren't hugely expensive. The 17-inch wheels can be had almost for free. But that's a leap of faith that I could well understand someone deciding to pass on.
Thanks for that, appreciate the input. Your last paragraph sums it up pretty well, I was expecting something a lot more fun, but good to know that it's possible to wake them up a bit with a few changes. I'd probably go down the ohlins/KW route, but as you say it's a bit of a leap of faith to take, but I do like the idea of the 987.2. Not a popular mod because aesthetic considerations tend to dominate. But if you go down that path, you're then into tyre sizes. Personally, think going nearly square 225/50 front, 235/50 rear is best overall and maintains correct rolling radius. The factory 17-inch spec is 205/55 front, 235/50 rear. The super skinny factory fronts do elevate the steering feel even further. But the 225s retain most of that while taking out understeer and making the front end more positive and confidence inspiring. Braking is a bit dicey, even on the road, with the factory 205 fronts.
For track, you'd probably want to go wider and maybe have larger 18-inch wheels for that. Depends on exactly what experience you are after. As for other track prep, well, how much do you want to spend, how involved do you want to get. The safest affordable option is Cayman R springs, dampers and rear ARB. Not really true track spec, but an absolutely known quantity that works, fits and is certainly an upgrade over the standard springs and dampers.
Otherwise, you're into Ohlins R/T or KW, unless you want to get really spendy with Tractive or whatever. Personally, I would advise again Bilstein B16 for the 987. It's the same kit they released in about 2005 for the 987, hasn't been updated and is, frankly, a bit crap.
Of course, all of this is pretty notional when you don't have access to a 987.2 to try it all out. But will say I get where you are coming from regarding you 987 impressions. They are distinctly underwhelming in factory trim. But the core car and platform is very good and they do respond extremely well to well considered changes, many of which aren't hugely expensive. The 17-inch wheels can be had almost for free. But that's a leap of faith that I could well understand someone deciding to pass on.
Wondering if 2.9 with some key chassis modifications would be good enough to enjoy on road and track?
Or maybe I should just bite the bullet and get a 987 for the road and an Elise for the track, as having something that does both does seem a bit hard to get at this level of budget
Michael_B said:
My weekend/holiday place is ~15 minutes from the Circuit de Bresse, as I take the A39/A40 from Geneva to Le Miroir each time we go. I ll be driving there just for the day (in the Tesla due to luggage constraints ) tomorrow, to water the garden ; it will be up to 38C most of next week!
That s quite a distance from the UK, what brought/brings you down this way in the MX-5?
Great place to choose a holiday home ) tomorrow, to water the garden ; it will be up to 38C most of next week!That s quite a distance from the UK, what brought/brings you down this way in the MX-5?
I live in Lyon so usually drive either on Bresse or Charade as they are the two closest tracks near me! Hi OP, not the exact cars you're asking about but I've had 4 MX5s and 2 Boxster S' (986). Before buying my ND2 2.0 I was considering a Cayman. Ultimately though I felt that the Porsches felt like tanks and not as fun to drive as the MX5s, plus I had an engine failure in one (probably not an issue in a .2 car though), and also I like having the roof down in the MX5 v's a Cayman.
I wont lie that I'm a little concerned about the gearbox in my ND but I will just fix it if it goes, I like it that much, plus, to me it's unlikely the MX5 will prove to be more expensive to run overall.
My first S had 17s and my second S had 18s and I agree with the poster above that it drove best on the smaller wheels. Generally many cars are I seem to find.
I wont lie that I'm a little concerned about the gearbox in my ND but I will just fix it if it goes, I like it that much, plus, to me it's unlikely the MX5 will prove to be more expensive to run overall.
My first S had 17s and my second S had 18s and I agree with the poster above that it drove best on the smaller wheels. Generally many cars are I seem to find.
TameRacingDriver said:
Hi OP, not the exact cars you're asking about but I've had 4 MX5s and 2 Boxster S' (986). Before buying my ND2 2.0 I was considering a Cayman. Ultimately though I felt that the Porsches felt like tanks and not as fun to drive as the MX5s, plus I had an engine failure in one (probably not an issue in a .2 car though), and also I like having the roof down in the MX5 v's a Cayman.
I wont lie that I'm a little concerned about the gearbox in my ND but I will just fix it if it goes, I like it that much, plus, to me it's unlikely the MX5 will prove to be more expensive to run overall.
My first S had 17s and my second S had 18s and I agree with the poster above that it drove best on the smaller wheels. Generally many cars are I seem to find.
Hi TRD, that's a shame about the engine failure on your 986 S. Would like to have an early 2.5 or a facelift 986, they look great! I wont lie that I'm a little concerned about the gearbox in my ND but I will just fix it if it goes, I like it that much, plus, to me it's unlikely the MX5 will prove to be more expensive to run overall.
My first S had 17s and my second S had 18s and I agree with the poster above that it drove best on the smaller wheels. Generally many cars are I seem to find.
About the gearbox on the ND - its really the only weakness on the car, but one that can be fixed if you send it off to Walter motorsports in the usa or put in an nc2 gearbox with an adapter plate - something I'd consider doing if I were to keep the car! That and a bbr220 conversion would be great...
Loafers92 said:
Thanks for that, appreciate the input. Your last paragraph sums it up pretty well, I was expecting something a lot more fun, but good to know that it's possible to wake them up a bit with a few changes. I'd probably go down the ohlins/KW route, but as you say it's a bit of a leap of faith to take, but I do like the idea of the 987.2.
Wondering if 2.9 with some key chassis modifications would be good enough to enjoy on road and track?
Or maybe I should just bite the bullet and get a 987 for the road and an Elise for the track, as having something that does both does seem a bit hard to get at this level of budget
Seems like budget isn't a major constraint, in which case given your remit I'd say if you do go 987.2, get a 3.4. You do get talk of the longevity advantages of the indirect injection 2.9. I doubt anyone who makes that case has paid for the DFI engine to be cleaned. I did a few years ago on a 987.2 3.4 I owned at the time (I was chasing what turned out to be an unrelated fault, it didn't actually need cleaning). It cost £400 to have it walnut blasted. Even at double that and given you'd be doing it, what, every 80k miles or something at most, it's hardly onerous.Wondering if 2.9 with some key chassis modifications would be good enough to enjoy on road and track?
Or maybe I should just bite the bullet and get a 987 for the road and an Elise for the track, as having something that does both does seem a bit hard to get at this level of budget
No 987 is properly quick, but there are no downsides to the 3.4, it just has a bit more thrust. If you were in the UK I'd say drop by and come out in another 987.2CS I have that's pretty dialled for road driving in at this point / possibly have a drive if you're not a lunatic.
If you can afford both the 987 and the Elise, honestly, I'd do that. There will be a point at which making the 987 better on track will detract from its road manners.
I have owned 3 987s; I find it hard to resist the combination of balance, practical use-ability and a slightly-reduced risk of losing my licence.
However, I am not sure that 17 inch wheels are an option for everyone? From memory, a 17 inch wheel won’t clear the larger brakes on the S version.
Happy to be corrected on this.
However, I am not sure that 17 inch wheels are an option for everyone? From memory, a 17 inch wheel won’t clear the larger brakes on the S version.
Happy to be corrected on this.
Silver47 said:
By the time you've fettled an S for track focus will you be into R money anyway?
No, not by quite a long shot. R has relatively few hardware changes. Brakes are the same, all the suspension arms are the same. It's springs, dampers and the rear ARB. You can buy the lot and fit it for I would think about £3k. Price gap is currently in the region of about £15-20K.The only other hardware item of note in this context is the LSD. Standard on the R, optional on a .2 S. Definitely nice to have for track, I'd say less relevant for road driving. But there are .2 S with the factory LSD out there. I used to own one.
The reality is that if you were really wanting to make a 987 work on track, whether you bought an R or an S you will be doing all the same prep work to both cars because you wouldn't be keeping the R springs and dampers any more than the S items.
The R makes most sense as a turn-key solution that's a bit more focussed than the S, offers an aesthetic package and the chance to own a "special" model, perhaps with just a few changes like a bigger bore brake MC. If you want to put real focus into a 987, the R makes no sense. Significant up front premium, very little benefit in that context and you've then got the problem of resale. Think there's potential to lose a fair bit more money on a track prepped R than on a tack prepped S.
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