PHEV / EVs - Any with good brakes?
Discussion
Currently in a 2025 Merc EClass PHEV and cannot believe how crap the brakes are. On investigating this appears quite the norm for many PHEVs (and EVs?), as the regen is used to brake.
On the EClass it massively reduces the brake feel and often when the brakes go from the motors to the physical brakes it jerks and is very difficult to get good progressive braking.
Im due to change cars in the next 12 months, thank god, so Im seeking advice from the PH collective. What EVs / PHEVs have good brakes , i.e. progressive braking with good a feel.
I know the Porsche Taycan is singled out in the motoring press, anybody got experience of any others?
On the EClass it massively reduces the brake feel and often when the brakes go from the motors to the physical brakes it jerks and is very difficult to get good progressive braking.
Im due to change cars in the next 12 months, thank god, so Im seeking advice from the PH collective. What EVs / PHEVs have good brakes , i.e. progressive braking with good a feel.
I know the Porsche Taycan is singled out in the motoring press, anybody got experience of any others?
I drove many Prius hybrids up until 2008 when i resigned from car transporter work, always found them a pleasurable smooth drive, not fast obviously but very competent.
Bought a new shape Prius a month ago and yes its faster and more high tech than before but the transition from battery to engine is just as seamless and the brakes i find as smooth and progressive as they were before, i've got it on maximum regen and again you have a job to tell which system is doing the actual braking be it the motors under regen or the brakes themselves, i've read comments about there being a sharp stop as the vehicle comes to a final halt but can't say as it's bothering me so far.
Haven't used the brakes heavily because i don't drive that way so can't comment on emergency braking performance, the only time i hope to have to use the brakes heavily is to clean the discs up now and again during the salt season.
Obviously not a car to compare with an E class, but i'd certainly be test driving something you fancy from Toyota or Lexus ranges whilst looking.
Bought a new shape Prius a month ago and yes its faster and more high tech than before but the transition from battery to engine is just as seamless and the brakes i find as smooth and progressive as they were before, i've got it on maximum regen and again you have a job to tell which system is doing the actual braking be it the motors under regen or the brakes themselves, i've read comments about there being a sharp stop as the vehicle comes to a final halt but can't say as it's bothering me so far.
Haven't used the brakes heavily because i don't drive that way so can't comment on emergency braking performance, the only time i hope to have to use the brakes heavily is to clean the discs up now and again during the salt season.
Obviously not a car to compare with an E class, but i'd certainly be test driving something you fancy from Toyota or Lexus ranges whilst looking.
Edited by Smint on Sunday 24th May 17:35
I gather the McLaren Artura is pretty good, the Ferrari 296 isn't bad either ;-)
More seriously, agree the Taycan is probably the reference for good EV braking.
My Polestar 2 Dual Motor isn't bad, I'm slightly 'fishing' for the bite point when I need more than regen, but it's fairly progressive and smooth as you do get into the brakes. Tbh in normal driving I try to use the lift-off regen as much as possible, but the brakes are 'fine' for feel. The Performance Pack comes with huge brakes for circuit use, I don't actually know if they have better feel but outright capacity would be very good. To me the Polestar brakes aren't an issue.
Citroen e-C4 was poor, had all the flaws you describe in braking. I hear the MEB platform VW group cars have poor regen/friction integration also.
The Honda e has full brake by wire I think, so should at least be progressive and smooth in blending the two.
Funky Squirrel said:
Are the discs glazed? Infrequent brake use can cause a built up of rust causing the surface to glaze and reduce performance.
Nope, they’ve been like that from new and known for crap brakes. As I said in the OP, many EVs and PHEVs are reported as being similar. It’s due to the car using the motors for braking.Smint said:
I drove many Prius hybrids up until 2008 when i resigned from car transporter work, always found them a pleasurable smooth drive, not fast obviously but very competent.
Bought a new shape Prius a month ago and yes its faster and more high tech than before but the transition from battery to engine is just as seamless and the brakes i find as smooth and progressive as they were before, i've got it on maximum regen and again you have a job to tell which system is doing the actual braking be it the motors under regen or the brakes themselves, i've read comments about there being a sharp stop as the vehicle comes to a final halt but can't say as it's bothering me so far.
Haven't used the brakes heavily because i don't drive that way so can't comment on emergency braking performance, the only time i hope to have to use the brakes heavily is to clean the discs up now and again during the salt season.
Obviously not a car to compare with an E class, but i'd certainly be test driving something you fancy from Toyota or Lexus ranges whilst looking.
I’ll have to try one. Thanks.Bought a new shape Prius a month ago and yes its faster and more high tech than before but the transition from battery to engine is just as seamless and the brakes i find as smooth and progressive as they were before, i've got it on maximum regen and again you have a job to tell which system is doing the actual braking be it the motors under regen or the brakes themselves, i've read comments about there being a sharp stop as the vehicle comes to a final halt but can't say as it's bothering me so far.
Haven't used the brakes heavily because i don't drive that way so can't comment on emergency braking performance, the only time i hope to have to use the brakes heavily is to clean the discs up now and again during the salt season.
Obviously not a car to compare with an E class, but i'd certainly be test driving something you fancy from Toyota or Lexus ranges whilst looking.
Edited by Smint on Sunday 24th May 17:35
The brakes in the EClass are good when you jump on them (or the car does!), it just the feel and progression is appalling.
Also, if you put the car into regen using the paddles, the braking is very smooth. The problem is when using the pedal.
samoht said:
I gather the McLaren Artura is pretty good, the Ferrari 296 isn't bad either ;-)
More seriously, agree the Taycan is probably the reference for good EV braking.
My Polestar 2 Dual Motor isn't bad, I'm slightly 'fishing' for the bite point when I need more than regen, but it's fairly progressive and smooth as you do get into the brakes. Tbh in normal driving I try to use the lift-off regen as much as possible, but the brakes are 'fine' for feel. The Performance Pack comes with huge brakes for circuit use, I don't actually know if they have better feel but outright capacity would be very good. To me the Polestar brakes aren't an issue.
Citroen e-C4 was poor, had all the flaws you describe in braking. I hear the MEB platform VW group cars have poor regen/friction integration also.
The Honda e has full brake by wire I think, so should at least be progressive and smooth in blending the two.
Thanks for that.More seriously, agree the Taycan is probably the reference for good EV braking.
My Polestar 2 Dual Motor isn't bad, I'm slightly 'fishing' for the bite point when I need more than regen, but it's fairly progressive and smooth as you do get into the brakes. Tbh in normal driving I try to use the lift-off regen as much as possible, but the brakes are 'fine' for feel. The Performance Pack comes with huge brakes for circuit use, I don't actually know if they have better feel but outright capacity would be very good. To me the Polestar brakes aren't an issue.
Citroen e-C4 was poor, had all the flaws you describe in braking. I hear the MEB platform VW group cars have poor regen/friction integration also.
The Honda e has full brake by wire I think, so should at least be progressive and smooth in blending the two.
Citroen & VW out then.
Honda, Toyota & Porsche on the maybe list
I'm on my 2nd BMW iX, which uses blended braking, doesn't suffer from the issues you've experienced. Rarely need to actually use the friction brakes though, unless it's very last minute braking.
The upgraded MSport brakes are great when you do need to stop in a hurry though. When Mat Watson tested the M60 model, it stopped in 31m (<102 ft) from 60mph, which is not bad considering it's almost 2700kg.
The upgraded MSport brakes are great when you do need to stop in a hurry though. When Mat Watson tested the M60 model, it stopped in 31m (<102 ft) from 60mph, which is not bad considering it's almost 2700kg.
The way the OP is writing in this thread makes it sound like regen is solely used for braking, which of course it isn’t, otherwise why would the car have discs all around.
In what way are they “crap”? It’s probably a personal preference and you just don’t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you’ll just have to get used to it.
In what way are they “crap”? It’s probably a personal preference and you just don’t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you’ll just have to get used to it.
georgeyboy12345 said:
The way the OP is writing in this thread makes it sound like regen is solely used for braking, which of course it isn t, otherwise why would the car have discs all around.
In what way are they crap ? It s probably a personal preference and you just don t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you ll just have to get used to it.
Have you driven a tesla ? We rarely use the brakes apparently the discs can last the life of the car .In what way are they crap ? It s probably a personal preference and you just don t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you ll just have to get used to it.
Volvo XC60 is no worse than any other modern car for being over assisted and a bit wooden on brake feel, but does have decent progression from regen to physical braking - seamless enough that you can’t really spot when it’s doing it without the dashboard tell tale. Perfectly easy to brake smoothly in it, and plenty of power when you need it to stop quickly.
Polestar put a lot of effort into the brakes on the performance pack cars. The P2 has 375mm Brembos while the P4 has 392mm Brembos. I can't say I've ever noticed the transition between regen and physical brakes as they are blended very well and have plenty power.
I don't think any EVs use solely regen braking as it does have it's limitations so it's more about how each model manages the transition between each type which impacts the feel.
I don't think any EVs use solely regen braking as it does have it's limitations so it's more about how each model manages the transition between each type which impacts the feel.
Our 330e had great brake feel when we bought it (80k miles on it at the time). Fast forward another 10k miles and they felt horrible but discs and pads were ready for a change.
Changed the rear discs and pads first and it transformed the car again but not to the same level as when we bought it. Not sure what pads were on it before but they looked pretty generic. Went with brembo pads and discs when I changed them.
Changed the rear discs and pads first and it transformed the car again but not to the same level as when we bought it. Not sure what pads were on it before but they looked pretty generic. Went with brembo pads and discs when I changed them.
georgeyboy12345 said:
The way the OP is writing in this thread makes it sound like regen is solely used for braking, which of course it isn t, otherwise why would the car have discs all around.
In what way are they crap ? It s probably a personal preference and you just don t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you ll just have to get used to it.
For fear of repeating myself, the brakes literally have no feel or connection to the pedal. In what way are they crap ? It s probably a personal preference and you just don t like the feel of them. I highly doubt they are crap. The way brakes feel in an EV (be it a hybrid or full EV) is different, perhaps you ll just have to get used to it.
They do very liittle braking when initially pressed or full on braking if pressed hard. Its very difficult to get them to brake progressively.
You can also feel the car swap from regen braking to friction as it lets go of the brakes between the two. Its very poorly calibrated.
They really don t inspire confidence when driving.
I ve probably owned 30 car s over as many years, and cracking on for a million driven miles. I ve never come across such poorly implemented brakes.
Having read and discussed this before, it is a common problem with EV cars. Some obviously better or worse. I just don t want another car that has this problem. For me braking and how it feels is very important.
loudlashadjuster said:
The answer is that cooking Mercedes (i.e. non-AMG) brakes are generally underspecced and pretty woeful. I don t think them adding a battery has had any impact there.
The brakes have no problem stopping when needed, its very much the calibration between the motors and the friction brakes.I have no love for this car, and will be looking to swap in the next 12 months. I just don’t want another car that has similar issues.
John87 said:
Polestar put a lot of effort into the brakes on the performance pack cars. The P2 has 375mm Brembos while the P4 has 392mm Brembos. I can't say I've ever noticed the transition between regen and physical brakes as they are blended very well and have plenty power.
I don't think any EVs use solely regen braking as it does have it's limitations so it's more about how each model manages the transition between each type which impacts the feel.
Sounds like Polestar have got it right then. Honestly I struggle to understand how Mercedes has signed off the brakes on the EClass, they are awful. I don't think any EVs use solely regen braking as it does have it's limitations so it's more about how each model manages the transition between each type which impacts the feel.
I ll have to book a test drive to compare.
Cayenne phev has excellent friction brakes, loads of power, resisant to fade when pressing on hard for miles of twisties, but let down by a crap transition from regen to friction so gentle progressive braking doesnt always go to plan, and it varies with state of charge. Zero lack in stopping ability though.
I was impressed by the rav4 phev transition from regen to friction, very seamless, but what made the regen so smooth in braking, made acceleration irritating with the cvt weird effect. Didnt like it and still hadnt warmed to it after a week and 1000 miles.
I was impressed by the rav4 phev transition from regen to friction, very seamless, but what made the regen so smooth in braking, made acceleration irritating with the cvt weird effect. Didnt like it and still hadnt warmed to it after a week and 1000 miles.
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