My First Caterham?
Discussion
Hi,
Short Q: I'm looking at buying a Caterham. What advice would you give me?
Longer background: my much-loved 944 has (almost certainly) bitten the dust after a big spin and stuff on a circuit a month or so ago, and I need something to replace it. There is no rush; I am happy to do some thinking and planning and to take time hunting for the right car. I work from home so this won't be used as a daily, and my wife and I have a Skoda Fabia for sensible things and a Cayman for longer distances. The 944 was a summer-only car and the replacement will not need to do any more than this.
I've fancied a Caterham for a long time (decades) and I'd kinda like to buy one while still young enough to enjoy it (just turned 50). It will be a road-going toy with the (very) occasional track day, but will need to be at least a bit wife-friendly. Budget is probably about £20k, maybe a couple of grand more if something good comes up.
Definite questions: I think I am looking at an S3 chassis, without lowered floors (5ft9, <80kg) but I come unstuck on the engine options. I am gathering that the options on Caterhams are hugely more varied than on any other car. It seems that the K-series range gave way to cars with the Ford Sigma engines around 2009 and (to be honest) I think I prefer the idea of the K-series.
R-spec is harder-core than S-series, non? Where do the likes of 'Supersport' come in - I have seen both K-series and Sigma-engined cars listed as this.
Also (and it seems that everyone asks this and there is no standard answer, but I'l give it a go!) how much power will I need? I would favour light weight and handling purity over outright grunt (plus I don't want to kill myself) but it seems that quite a few people buy a 125bhp Sigma engined car and find they want more power, so need to upgrade. I'd rather find the right car first time. I fully understand the arguments about light weight meaning you don't need so much grunt but I've yet to drive a car (any car) which doesn't feel slightly underpowered some of the time.
If there was a preference then I'd choose a slightly revvier engine what would encourage wringing it out hard, rather than something which rows along on torque.
Also, gearboxes; 5sp or 6sp. I read that the 5sp makes for a better all-rounder than the 6-sp as 5th on the 5-sp is higher than 6th on the 6sp. Is this so, or does this only refer to particular models of cars?
I'm practical and would look to maintain the car myself. This doesn't worry me at all. Likewise for alterations and upgrades.
In short: where do I start? I'm just outside Gloucester - where's my nearest (recommended) place that will talk me through the options and enable me to make a choice? I have found Turn7, but they're up in York. GPSevens get excellent reviews but they're in Kent. Both are quite a trek.
FWIW, Claude says this:
Thanks!
Short Q: I'm looking at buying a Caterham. What advice would you give me?
Longer background: my much-loved 944 has (almost certainly) bitten the dust after a big spin and stuff on a circuit a month or so ago, and I need something to replace it. There is no rush; I am happy to do some thinking and planning and to take time hunting for the right car. I work from home so this won't be used as a daily, and my wife and I have a Skoda Fabia for sensible things and a Cayman for longer distances. The 944 was a summer-only car and the replacement will not need to do any more than this.
I've fancied a Caterham for a long time (decades) and I'd kinda like to buy one while still young enough to enjoy it (just turned 50). It will be a road-going toy with the (very) occasional track day, but will need to be at least a bit wife-friendly. Budget is probably about £20k, maybe a couple of grand more if something good comes up.
Definite questions: I think I am looking at an S3 chassis, without lowered floors (5ft9, <80kg) but I come unstuck on the engine options. I am gathering that the options on Caterhams are hugely more varied than on any other car. It seems that the K-series range gave way to cars with the Ford Sigma engines around 2009 and (to be honest) I think I prefer the idea of the K-series.
R-spec is harder-core than S-series, non? Where do the likes of 'Supersport' come in - I have seen both K-series and Sigma-engined cars listed as this.
Also (and it seems that everyone asks this and there is no standard answer, but I'l give it a go!) how much power will I need? I would favour light weight and handling purity over outright grunt (plus I don't want to kill myself) but it seems that quite a few people buy a 125bhp Sigma engined car and find they want more power, so need to upgrade. I'd rather find the right car first time. I fully understand the arguments about light weight meaning you don't need so much grunt but I've yet to drive a car (any car) which doesn't feel slightly underpowered some of the time.
If there was a preference then I'd choose a slightly revvier engine what would encourage wringing it out hard, rather than something which rows along on torque.
Also, gearboxes; 5sp or 6sp. I read that the 5sp makes for a better all-rounder than the 6-sp as 5th on the 5-sp is higher than 6th on the 6sp. Is this so, or does this only refer to particular models of cars?
I'm practical and would look to maintain the car myself. This doesn't worry me at all. Likewise for alterations and upgrades.
In short: where do I start? I'm just outside Gloucester - where's my nearest (recommended) place that will talk me through the options and enable me to make a choice? I have found Turn7, but they're up in York. GPSevens get excellent reviews but they're in Kent. Both are quite a trek.
FWIW, Claude says this:
AI Bot said:
My recommendation
A Seven 270S or 310R (Duratec 2.0) from roughly 2014 onwards, narrow body.
270bhp/tonne (270S) or 310bhp/tonne (310R) — both genuinely fast, but manageable
Narrow body suits your frame
2014+ cars had a significant refresh and are more sorted
£16–22k is realistic depending on spec and mileage
Road-biased but perfectly capable on track
The 310R would be my personal pick if you can stretch — it's a step up in feel and composure without becoming punishing. The 270S is the sensible, slightly softer version of essentially the same car.
Is he/she right? A Seven 270S or 310R (Duratec 2.0) from roughly 2014 onwards, narrow body.
270bhp/tonne (270S) or 310bhp/tonne (310R) — both genuinely fast, but manageable
Narrow body suits your frame
2014+ cars had a significant refresh and are more sorted
£16–22k is realistic depending on spec and mileage
Road-biased but perfectly capable on track
The 310R would be my personal pick if you can stretch — it's a step up in feel and composure without becoming punishing. The 270S is the sensible, slightly softer version of essentially the same car.
Thanks!
I'm a similar size/weight to you and my S3 without a lowered floor fits me like a glove really. Mines only a 1.8 K series with a 140bhp(the Roadsport Supersport model), but it still feels alert and alive though, you just touch throttle and it just gets up and goes. If I tracked mine regularly, then I'd consider more power, but 140bhp feels nice enough on the road though I think.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm a similar size/weight to you and my S3 without a lowered floor fits me like a glove really. Mines only a 1.8 K series with a 140bhp(the Roadsport Supersport model), but it still feels alert and alive though, you just touch throttle and it just gets up and goes. If I tracked mine regularly, then I'd consider more power, but 140bhp feels nice enough on the road though I think.
Thanks cerb4.5lee. Very helpful. I think I'm looking around the 140-150bhp mark, not less. I am spending time on google and it seems that I'm not the only one finding things confusing first time out! Two more Q's:
1. Buying privately vs from a dealer. I always prefer buying cars privately as you get to meet the previous owner, which tells you a lot. Does this apply to Caterhams as well? How much is the dealer mark-up? I can see that spending a couple of hours with a dealer asking all these daft beginner questions could be time well spent but I'd feel a bit of an obligation to buy something from them at the end.
2. How seasonal are the prices? Do they strengthen in the spring/summer and dip in the autumn, or do they stay much the same year-round?
Just do it.
A £20k budget should get you a great car that fits your brief, and, with World Events it is probably still a buyers market. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the model names, at this price point many are ' 'Trigger's Brooms'.
You might want to think hard about your long-term use (especially with a Cayman in the stable), there's a well-worn path that starts with getting a 7 for the occasional track-day and waking up in a bedsit above a chip shop with Trophies on the wall.
We bought an ex-academy car (125 bhp) as a track rat and never found it under-powered away from the Hanger Straight. The engine was upgraded at a later date (see above). If you fear being under-powered then I'd look for 140-150bhp.
Most of the parts are fairly easy to switch around, so, think about engine, gearbox, cage and seats. With your brief if I could find a 310r for that money I would snap it up. The Sigma engine isn't the most soulful, but it's strong and the engine isn't the main event in any Caterham. Personally, I find Tillets comfortable and I would want a cage, but, that means you need tight harnesses.
I expect you know your wife better than anyone on this forum. Would the two of you both enjoy driving around in helmets? If not, you might need a windscreen. The standard roof is woeful, while the Half Hood seems to be brilliant (as are soft bits for sevens).
A dealer needs to make money on a car, as they are very simple and if you're happy with a spanner I doubt a warranty/ consumer rights act is very useful.
A £20k budget should get you a great car that fits your brief, and, with World Events it is probably still a buyers market. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the model names, at this price point many are ' 'Trigger's Brooms'.
You might want to think hard about your long-term use (especially with a Cayman in the stable), there's a well-worn path that starts with getting a 7 for the occasional track-day and waking up in a bedsit above a chip shop with Trophies on the wall.
We bought an ex-academy car (125 bhp) as a track rat and never found it under-powered away from the Hanger Straight. The engine was upgraded at a later date (see above). If you fear being under-powered then I'd look for 140-150bhp.
Most of the parts are fairly easy to switch around, so, think about engine, gearbox, cage and seats. With your brief if I could find a 310r for that money I would snap it up. The Sigma engine isn't the most soulful, but it's strong and the engine isn't the main event in any Caterham. Personally, I find Tillets comfortable and I would want a cage, but, that means you need tight harnesses.
I expect you know your wife better than anyone on this forum. Would the two of you both enjoy driving around in helmets? If not, you might need a windscreen. The standard roof is woeful, while the Half Hood seems to be brilliant (as are soft bits for sevens).
A dealer needs to make money on a car, as they are very simple and if you're happy with a spanner I doubt a warranty/ consumer rights act is very useful.
It might be worth having a look at Millwood who are just down the road from you. I’ve never had any dealings with them, but they have an excellent reputation.
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/
I know you said you’d prefer to buy privately, but a trip to Millwood would probably be very informative & at the very least, you would get to try a few different cars for size, different seats etc.
https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/
I know you said you’d prefer to buy privately, but a trip to Millwood would probably be very informative & at the very least, you would get to try a few different cars for size, different seats etc.
Guys,
Thanks for the messages. Thanks Blue7 and framerateuk for the recommendation of Milwood - I'll find a time to go over there and have a chat!
WombleCate, thanks for your input. That's all very helpful. It'll need to have a windscreen as an aeroscreen wouldn't pass the wife test. A 310 (R or S) sounds nice but they are a bit out of my price range. The various hood options are a bit of a mystery at this point but I am sure a few more minutes (/hours) on Google will make many things clear!
It seems that there is a potentially huge difference between what may appear to be similar cars, and finding 'the one' is part of the fun of it. Given how little I know (and I know that I don't know!) then a trip to see some has to be the next step. I guess that a trip to Milwood is better booked sooner rather than later!
What forums are good for me to look at joining? Blatchat is mentioned a lot, and there are a few on Facebook. Some people on here seem to think that the forums are a bit spoiled by a few odious characters. Are some places better for a beginner to start in?
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for the messages. Thanks Blue7 and framerateuk for the recommendation of Milwood - I'll find a time to go over there and have a chat!
WombleCate, thanks for your input. That's all very helpful. It'll need to have a windscreen as an aeroscreen wouldn't pass the wife test. A 310 (R or S) sounds nice but they are a bit out of my price range. The various hood options are a bit of a mystery at this point but I am sure a few more minutes (/hours) on Google will make many things clear!
It seems that there is a potentially huge difference between what may appear to be similar cars, and finding 'the one' is part of the fun of it. Given how little I know (and I know that I don't know!) then a trip to see some has to be the next step. I guess that a trip to Milwood is better booked sooner rather than later!
What forums are good for me to look at joining? Blatchat is mentioned a lot, and there are a few on Facebook. Some people on here seem to think that the forums are a bit spoiled by a few odious characters. Are some places better for a beginner to start in?
Thanks for your help.
I'd suggest going along to your local Caterham & Lotus 7 Club group meeting. They'll be plenty of owners to chat to, and lots of Caterhams to look at. 
I suspect your nearest is the Wales South (Taffia) group who meet at The Crown, Pantygelli, Old Hereford Road, Pantygelli, Wales, NP7 7HR.
All groups are listed here
I suspect your nearest is the Wales South (Taffia) group who meet at The Crown, Pantygelli, Old Hereford Road, Pantygelli, Wales, NP7 7HR.
All groups are listed here
I am 5 weeks and 1300 miles into first Caterham ownership and loving every mile.
S3, lowered floors and standard leather seats and just fit in!
Mines is the K series with the VHPD engine and it's a bit of a monster!
I figured I might as well go straight into the deep end rather than upgrade later!
Advice would be to sit in different chassis, floor and seat combinations and see what fits best.
Caterham 7 and Lotus owners FB page is pretty good as well as the regional groups.
Just do it and you will have no regrets at all!
S3, lowered floors and standard leather seats and just fit in!
Mines is the K series with the VHPD engine and it's a bit of a monster!
I figured I might as well go straight into the deep end rather than upgrade later!
Advice would be to sit in different chassis, floor and seat combinations and see what fits best.
Caterham 7 and Lotus owners FB page is pretty good as well as the regional groups.
Just do it and you will have no regrets at all!
Edited by nessiemac on Thursday 21st May 19:51
Edited by nessiemac on Friday 22 May 10:49
One thing to understand is that the model designations changed over time. If you go back to the k-series era, I think that the 1600 or 1800 supersports have loads of power to have fun.135-140 ish bhp. If you are keen on a little more then the k-series R300 (either in original TB or later VVC form) is a great place to be - feels perfect power levels to me. If you go back a little further then that power level was about at the peak of the range with the HPC model. So powerful there was a driving course to go with it!
But I've gone back even further to live axles and crossflows and they are fantastic. It's a tough place to choose what you want, but it's hard to make a bad choice. There are a few models that have a poorer reputation - the 2.0L 16V vauxhall injection is a bit lacklustre (described by Jez Coates in Low Flying as the least inspiring 7 of all time). The other vauxhall power plants 1600 and 1800 (have I got that right) are perhaps a bit dull. But I bet the owners of them have a blast as well.
I think for your quest you need to have a plump at which era you fancy. K-series or sigma/duratech.
But I've gone back even further to live axles and crossflows and they are fantastic. It's a tough place to choose what you want, but it's hard to make a bad choice. There are a few models that have a poorer reputation - the 2.0L 16V vauxhall injection is a bit lacklustre (described by Jez Coates in Low Flying as the least inspiring 7 of all time). The other vauxhall power plants 1600 and 1800 (have I got that right) are perhaps a bit dull. But I bet the owners of them have a blast as well.
I think for your quest you need to have a plump at which era you fancy. K-series or sigma/duratech.
Everyone will have an opinion on a Caterham and everyone's use-case will differ.
My advice is to go to Millwood, sit in a variety of chassis types (S3 vs SV, Tillets vs Leather seats, Lowered floor vs non). Once you've got that sorted, see what you can test drive. All Caterhams differ in their spec and, more importantly, in their setup. This, of course, can (and should!) be changed to suit the driver. This is the best VFM modification BTW.
I've had 2x Caterhams over 8 years.
The first was a 2012 Sigma Supersport (140bhp) with 5 speed.
The second was a 2015 420R (220bhp) with 6 speed.
Absolutely loved both. There were times when I wanted more power from the Supersport and there were times where I wanted more power from the 420R. If I'm completely honest with myself, the Supersport with the Sigma engine was the sweeter car.
My advice is to go to Millwood, sit in a variety of chassis types (S3 vs SV, Tillets vs Leather seats, Lowered floor vs non). Once you've got that sorted, see what you can test drive. All Caterhams differ in their spec and, more importantly, in their setup. This, of course, can (and should!) be changed to suit the driver. This is the best VFM modification BTW.
I've had 2x Caterhams over 8 years.
The first was a 2012 Sigma Supersport (140bhp) with 5 speed.
The second was a 2015 420R (220bhp) with 6 speed.
Absolutely loved both. There were times when I wanted more power from the Supersport and there were times where I wanted more power from the 420R. If I'm completely honest with myself, the Supersport with the Sigma engine was the sweeter car.
Oi Bertbert!
I loved my 1800 Vauxhall. I’m not sure any engine breathing through a pair of twin choke Webers could be described as ‘a bit dull’.
But I appreciate that you qualified your statement, I certainly had a blast!
There are pros & cons to all of them. I totally get why potential owners agonise over spec, power outputs etc etc. But ultimately, they’re all great. Power is so subjective & how you experience a particular power output is dependent on what you’re used to.
I loved my 1800VX with 120bhp & I love my current 420R with 220bhp. My 420R cost getting on for three times what I paid for the 1800VX, but it’s not three times the fun. The law of diminishing returns definitely applies.
I loved my 1800 Vauxhall. I’m not sure any engine breathing through a pair of twin choke Webers could be described as ‘a bit dull’.
But I appreciate that you qualified your statement, I certainly had a blast!
There are pros & cons to all of them. I totally get why potential owners agonise over spec, power outputs etc etc. But ultimately, they’re all great. Power is so subjective & how you experience a particular power output is dependent on what you’re used to.
I loved my 1800VX with 120bhp & I love my current 420R with 220bhp. My 420R cost getting on for three times what I paid for the 1800VX, but it’s not three times the fun. The law of diminishing returns definitely applies.
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