Thoughts on an accounting 'amin' fee
Discussion
Just sense checking a charge form an accountant which has annoyed me.
I had issues doing my confirmation statement in October last year which resulted in me resetting the authorisation code.
It was resolved but I forgot I'd changed it and when my accountant came to submit the accounts this year a couple of weeks ago their old code obviously wasn't accepted.
They sent a total of two emails about it (one in reply to my initial response). 91 words. This was late on Friday afternoon. By midday Saturday I had emailed the new code and they confirmed it worked in an email on Monday.
They want to charge me £55 (+VAT), I'm not VAT registered, for that.
I'm a very easy client, everything accurate and on time, don't ever ask questions. Pay on time etc. Been with them 5+ years.
Does that sound fair?
Just to add although its not really that relevant - they 'bought' my account from a retiring accountant who it turned out had been making various mistakes. In my case one resulted in a letter from HMRC about the totals in two different boxes on the corp tax return not matching when they should. I let the new accountant deal with it which was just a letter (perhaps email) explaining essentially a transposition. Nothing new had to be calculated etc. They charged £200+ for that which I paid without questioning but its obvioulsy something that has not sat right with me.
I had issues doing my confirmation statement in October last year which resulted in me resetting the authorisation code.
It was resolved but I forgot I'd changed it and when my accountant came to submit the accounts this year a couple of weeks ago their old code obviously wasn't accepted.
They sent a total of two emails about it (one in reply to my initial response). 91 words. This was late on Friday afternoon. By midday Saturday I had emailed the new code and they confirmed it worked in an email on Monday.
They want to charge me £55 (+VAT), I'm not VAT registered, for that.
I'm a very easy client, everything accurate and on time, don't ever ask questions. Pay on time etc. Been with them 5+ years.
Does that sound fair?
Just to add although its not really that relevant - they 'bought' my account from a retiring accountant who it turned out had been making various mistakes. In my case one resulted in a letter from HMRC about the totals in two different boxes on the corp tax return not matching when they should. I let the new accountant deal with it which was just a letter (perhaps email) explaining essentially a transposition. Nothing new had to be calculated etc. They charged £200+ for that which I paid without questioning but its obvioulsy something that has not sat right with me.
Edited by trickywoo on Wednesday 20th May 09:42
Simpo Two said:
trickywoo said:
they 'bought' my account from a retiring accountant
Have you got any paperwork or T&Cs that mention such an admin fee? What did you sign up to?They have essentially charged me £0.60 a word for a minor oversight which a 30s phone call would have sorted out and actually how much have they been inconvenienced, £55 worth?
Many of the larger firms bill based on time cost, some also have a minimum charge of 15 minutes so that may be it.
Even though it would be a couple of minutes you might have been charged the minimum.
There are other accountants that have fixed fees based on the normal workload for the year.
Even though it would be a couple of minutes you might have been charged the minimum.
There are other accountants that have fixed fees based on the normal workload for the year.
Whataguy said:
Many of the larger firms bill based on time cost, some also have a minimum charge of 15 minutes so that may be it.
Even though it would be a couple of minutes you might have been charged the minimum.
There are other accountants that have fixed fees based on the normal workload for the year.
They are a provincial two office set up doing my accounts for £60k annual turnover. The admin fee was for a holding company where their total fee for the annuals was £765 (there is nothing to it). The admin fee in that context is 7%.Even though it would be a couple of minutes you might have been charged the minimum.
There are other accountants that have fixed fees based on the normal workload for the year.
trickywoo said:
They are a provincial two office set up doing my accounts for £60k annual turnover. The admin fee was for a holding company where their total fee for the annuals was £765 (there is nothing to it). The admin fee in that context is 7%.
I would dispute the admin fee and find a better value accountant.Send them 'f
k off' and charge them £1.20 
It's a funny thing but it's often the tiny charges that annoy customers more than the big ones.
Simpo Two said:
I would dispute the admin fee and find a better value accountant.
Send them 'fk off' and charge them £1.20
It's a funny thing but it's often the tiny charges that annoy customers more than the big ones.
Indeed. I'm paying them over £2k for what has realistically not even taken half a day.Send them 'f
k off' and charge them £1.20 It's a funny thing but it's often the tiny charges that annoy customers more than the big ones.
Eric Mc said:
As an accountant, I've had that happen to me where clients have changed their Companies House credentials without letting me know.
It's very annoying and could result in more serious consequences for a company - such as inability to file accounts etc.
Not as annoying as charging the punter £55 though. I knew something was up as after approving / signing the accounts I didn't see them on CH. I was about to check in myself around the time they said the code wasn't working.It's very annoying and could result in more serious consequences for a company - such as inability to file accounts etc.
trickywoo said:
Indeed. I'm paying them over £2k for what has realistically not even taken half a day.
It will be taking them significantly longer than half a day when you add up the annual compliance, ML, Institute regulations, working papers etc.Saying that, (IMO) charging you for the code change is not the way to keep good clients.
And charging you to fix an error created by the previous accountant when they have bought the client bank is also not good form.
Your best route is probably get some alternative quotes and go from there.
I'm thinking at this stage even if they waive the fee I'm gone.
I just recalled an incident last year where they posted something on quick books that messed up the VAT (QB has an audit trail showing who has made entries so it was 100% them). I had to send quite a few emails to get it resolved and all I had back was 'they didn't know how it happened'. Not an apology and I make a mistake with the authorisation code, mainly due to the stupid log in system, and they want £55.
You can probably tell I haven't calmed down as the day has gone on
I just recalled an incident last year where they posted something on quick books that messed up the VAT (QB has an audit trail showing who has made entries so it was 100% them). I had to send quite a few emails to get it resolved and all I had back was 'they didn't know how it happened'. Not an apology and I make a mistake with the authorisation code, mainly due to the stupid log in system, and they want £55.
You can probably tell I haven't calmed down as the day has gone on
trickywoo said:
I had to send quite a few emails to get it resolved...
It raises the entertaining prospect of billing them £55 per e-mail... if they're disorganised they might actually pay it!Personally I think you should go to the PH resident Head of Beans, Eric Mc. 10% discount if you like Airfix models
I am an accountant, so see both sides of this, but I work on my own and wouldn't dream of levying small charges, for eactly the reason that it pisses people off.
I don't levy specific charges for phone calls, letters or emails, it makes me look like I am trying to justify myself.
I hate it when lawyers send me bills itemised like that, when their hourly rate is usually 3-4 times my rate just to rub salt in..
It should be about giving a proper service for a fair fee, and sometimes I have to take the rough with the smooth.
But the other side of the coin is that a phrase like "called HMRC and resolved your tax code problem" completely understates the sheer hassle involved. It should read "called HMRC, sat on hold for 40 minutes on the agent's dedicated phone line before speaking to someone, who had to transfer me to someone else, leaving me on hold for another 20 minutes until they answered their phone. Spent 15 minutes explaining the issue carefully to the second person and used my knowledge and skill persuading them why their estimated income figure was wrong, after I had finally managed to get them to tell me which tax year's income they had estimated. Worked out for them what the new income figure should have been, without the bonus that my client wasn't going to receive two years in succession, so that the child benefit higher earner reclaim for next tax year could be correctly calculated and applied to your code. Then notiifed you what your new code was going to be". It's sorting out the small issues that wastes so much time, particularly if the accountant has to make the phone call of doom to the tax office.
I don't levy specific charges for phone calls, letters or emails, it makes me look like I am trying to justify myself.
I hate it when lawyers send me bills itemised like that, when their hourly rate is usually 3-4 times my rate just to rub salt in..
It should be about giving a proper service for a fair fee, and sometimes I have to take the rough with the smooth.
But the other side of the coin is that a phrase like "called HMRC and resolved your tax code problem" completely understates the sheer hassle involved. It should read "called HMRC, sat on hold for 40 minutes on the agent's dedicated phone line before speaking to someone, who had to transfer me to someone else, leaving me on hold for another 20 minutes until they answered their phone. Spent 15 minutes explaining the issue carefully to the second person and used my knowledge and skill persuading them why their estimated income figure was wrong, after I had finally managed to get them to tell me which tax year's income they had estimated. Worked out for them what the new income figure should have been, without the bonus that my client wasn't going to receive two years in succession, so that the child benefit higher earner reclaim for next tax year could be correctly calculated and applied to your code. Then notiifed you what your new code was going to be". It's sorting out the small issues that wastes so much time, particularly if the accountant has to make the phone call of doom to the tax office.
QBee said:
But the other side of the coin is that a phrase like "called HMRC and resolved your tax code problem" completely understates the sheer hassle involved. It should read "called HMRC, sat on hold for 40 minutes on the agent's dedicated phone line before speaking to someone, who had to transfer me to someone else, leaving me on hold for another 20 minutes until they answered their phone. Spent 15 minutes explaining the issue carefully to the second person and used my knowledge and skill persuading them why their estimated income figure was wrong, after I had finally managed to get them to tell me which tax year's income they had estimated. Worked out for them what the new income figure should have been, without the bonus that my client wasn't going to receive two years in succession, so that the child benefit higher earner reclaim for next tax year could be correctly calculated and applied to your code. Then notiifed you what your new code was going to be". It's sorting out the small issues that wastes so much time, particularly if the accountant has to make the phone call of doom to the tax office.
Indeed. It gets harder every day to absorb the cost of HMRC's incompetence.Simpo Two said:
It raises the entertaining prospect of billing them £55 per e-mail... if they're disorganised they might actually pay it!
Personally I think you should go to the PH resident Head of Beans, Eric Mc. 10% discount if you like Airfix models
Thanks for the plug - but I'm trying to retire (unsuccessfully) at the moment Personally I think you should go to the PH resident Head of Beans, Eric Mc. 10% discount if you like Airfix models
Simpo Two said:
I would dispute the admin fee and find a better value accountant.
Send them 'fk off' and charge them £1.20
It's a funny thing but it's often the tiny charges that annoy customers more than the big ones.
My wife charges similar fees for her work. For her It’s not about the income it’s about the hassle. She charges a relatively small amount across a large volume of clients. Her work has to be streamlined and if her clients do things which reduce her efficiency then that impacts on her overall productivity. Send them 'f
k off' and charge them £1.20 It's a funny thing but it's often the tiny charges that annoy customers more than the big ones.
The fee ensures that clients do their bit to keep things moving and that means she can keep costs down for the bulk of her clients who are timely and efficient. It also means some clients who take up more time move on so she has a pool of better clients.
Could be similar here. If I was allocating my work and went into a clients portfolio then couldn’t do it for no fault of my own I’d be frustrated too.
Accountancy firms have got far more robust with their invoicing over recent years and really don’t seem to give a toss about client relationships any more. I can’t pick up the phone to my company’s tax advisors without getting a relatively large bill from them, and they add 3% for expenses too.
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff