Buying a house in a high flood risk area
Discussion
I'm currently in the process of selling my house and purchasing another. The searches have come back for the house we are looking to buy and all is well with the exception of the environmental report...
It has flagged up a significant risk of surface water flooding and looks quite scary at first glance. Having done a load of research and speaking with neighbours, I feel fairly confident that the risk isn't as bad as made out in the report when you factor in drainage and the permeable areas around the house. For context, it's within 150m of a large river but is deemed low risk of flooding from a watercourse. The sellers have advised via solicitors that it has never flooded and have also confirmed this when I have raised with the agent.
The red flag is insurance. When comparing to identical houses in the same 'flood zone, it is almost 3 times the cost.
Is it possible for a house to be 'black listed' by insurers? Possibly for previous claims? Having spoken with insurers on the phone, they are unable to/won't share any information.
As much as we don't want to pull out of the purchase and probably loose the buyers of our house in the process, I really don't want to be buying a headache.
It has flagged up a significant risk of surface water flooding and looks quite scary at first glance. Having done a load of research and speaking with neighbours, I feel fairly confident that the risk isn't as bad as made out in the report when you factor in drainage and the permeable areas around the house. For context, it's within 150m of a large river but is deemed low risk of flooding from a watercourse. The sellers have advised via solicitors that it has never flooded and have also confirmed this when I have raised with the agent.
The red flag is insurance. When comparing to identical houses in the same 'flood zone, it is almost 3 times the cost.
Is it possible for a house to be 'black listed' by insurers? Possibly for previous claims? Having spoken with insurers on the phone, they are unable to/won't share any information.
As much as we don't want to pull out of the purchase and probably loose the buyers of our house in the process, I really don't want to be buying a headache.
Spoonz_ said:
The sellers have advised via solicitors that it has never flooded and have also confirmed this when I have raised with the agent.
I had similar when looking for a flat during Covid.Was told the same, no flooding.
Of course the flat had never flooded, but the car park had, restricting access, I sent them a photo.
How easy wouyld it be to sue the agent/solicitors for false info?
I've spoken to a couple of residents there, and they've also not been told of the flooded car park.
Anyhow OP, surely it'd make it very difficult when the time comes to sell?
Insurance wise it’s just a case of finding an insurer who’s experienced in dealing with this stuff and for a reasonable amount. Most ‘compare the market’ type insurers will either load the quote or simply won’t insure.
Remember, with properties like these it’s who are you going to sell to when you want to move again. Flooding, like subsistence can be a ball ache even though the root cause has been long sorted out and can follow the property around like a bad smell. Unfair but that’s the way it is as not everyone does any research and are simply scared off unnecessarily.
Remember, with properties like these it’s who are you going to sell to when you want to move again. Flooding, like subsistence can be a ball ache even though the root cause has been long sorted out and can follow the property around like a bad smell. Unfair but that’s the way it is as not everyone does any research and are simply scared off unnecessarily.
OutInTheShed said:
How far vertically is it above river level?
Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
The river isn't the concern in this instance. It's the risk from surface water flooding i.e heavy sudden rainfall. From researching online, it doesn't take into account things like kerbs, drains etc. the report uses topography only so sees the road is slightly lower than the surrounding area and therefore is at risk.Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
Fair point regarding resale. The mortgage company haven't raised any concerns.
Spoonz_ said:
OutInTheShed said:
How far vertically is it above river level?
Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
The river isn't the concern in this instance. It's the risk from surface water flooding i.e heavy sudden rainfall. From researching online, it doesn't take into account things like kerbs, drains etc. the report uses topography only so sees the road is slightly lower than the surrounding area and therefore is at risk.Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
Fair point regarding resale. The mortgage company haven't raised any concerns.
Cloudburst rainfall can deliver a crazy amount of water.
Very often the question is whether the river etc can take it away.
Highways etc can be pretty useless at drainage. I used to sail at a certain club where the seafront road often flooded in heavy rain, despite being about 4m above high tide and only 20 feet from the beach. Man against the elements is one thing, man against public sector uselessness is more hopeless.
OutInTheShed said:
Spoonz_ said:
OutInTheShed said:
How far vertically is it above river level?
Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
The river isn't the concern in this instance. It's the risk from surface water flooding i.e heavy sudden rainfall. From researching online, it doesn't take into account things like kerbs, drains etc. the report uses topography only so sees the road is slightly lower than the surrounding area and therefore is at risk.Most rivers inland are messed around with with weirs and whatever, managed by inept twunts who don't care about your house.
It's only going to get worse and one day, you will want to sell it or get a mortgage on it.
Fair point regarding resale. The mortgage company haven't raised any concerns.
Cloudburst rainfall can deliver a crazy amount of water.
Very often the question is whether the river etc can take it away.
Highways etc can be pretty useless at drainage. I used to sail at a certain club where the seafront road often flooded in heavy rain, despite being about 4m above high tide and only 20 feet from the beach. Man against the elements is one thing, man against public sector uselessness is more hopeless.
I wouldn't even look at any house on a flood plain, or even low risk, seen too many horror stories.
One of my sons had a nice flat in Hebden Bridge a few years back, he sold it, and then three months later the car park where he used to park his car was five foot under water, His car would have been a complete write off.
York centre and Tewkesbury would definitely be a no no.
One of my sons had a nice flat in Hebden Bridge a few years back, he sold it, and then three months later the car park where he used to park his car was five foot under water, His car would have been a complete write off.
York centre and Tewkesbury would definitely be a no no.
Check it yourself: https://check-long-term-flood-risk.service.gov.uk
Low risk from river flooding = 0.1% - 1% annual chance of flooding.
Surface water flood risk is more based on topography and won't take account of gullies as most highway drainage networks can only cope with pretty low order rainfall events. So the gullies are assumed to be overwhelmed and overflowing in anything more than a 1 in 25 year return period storm.
Add to the fact that the surface water gullies will discharge to the nearby river and if the river level is high and the outfalls are submerged, the surface water will not discharge so will have nowhere to go, other than back out into the road.
You'll get an idea of where water might end up just by looking at the street/house. If the house is at a lower level than the road then that would be concerning.
Low risk from river flooding = 0.1% - 1% annual chance of flooding.
Surface water flood risk is more based on topography and won't take account of gullies as most highway drainage networks can only cope with pretty low order rainfall events. So the gullies are assumed to be overwhelmed and overflowing in anything more than a 1 in 25 year return period storm.
Add to the fact that the surface water gullies will discharge to the nearby river and if the river level is high and the outfalls are submerged, the surface water will not discharge so will have nowhere to go, other than back out into the road.
You'll get an idea of where water might end up just by looking at the street/house. If the house is at a lower level than the road then that would be concerning.
I know there has been significant measures put in place to mitigate the river flooding however I naively hadn't considered the effect of high river levels on surface drainage elsewhere so thank you for pointing this out.
The house is ever so slightly below the level of the road, in a relatively large and flat area which I guess is why it is showing as a significant risk on the searches and is probably the reason for the high insurance quotes. Still unsure why this isn't reflected in the price to insure neighbouring houses.
I think I may have to pull the plug on this one. (Pun absolutely intended)
The house is ever so slightly below the level of the road, in a relatively large and flat area which I guess is why it is showing as a significant risk on the searches and is probably the reason for the high insurance quotes. Still unsure why this isn't reflected in the price to insure neighbouring houses.
I think I may have to pull the plug on this one. (Pun absolutely intended)
Edited by Spoonz_ on Tuesday 19th May 10:11
Spoonz_ said:
I really don't want to be buying a headache.
I suspect anyone who have experienced flooding will not be describing it as a headache 
We have a brook at the end of the garden, it's deemed low risk, no issues with insurance.
2 years ago I woke up to water on the main road in the village, I had a packed day at work so quickly messaged to say I might have to WFH.....
Pretty soon though work was the last thing on my mind. The brook had burst it's banks after 2 weeks of none stop rain and melting snow. When I first got out of bed the water level was barley over the back fence by the time I brushed my teeth I waking up everyone else in the house, and than moving furniture from the ground floor!!
The water came up so fast it was mad, looking back it would have needed to rise by another 2 meters before it got any where near the house, but I can tell you it was more of the one of the most sickening feelings I've ever had when the potential realisation hit we might get flooded.
Speaking to our neighbours who have lived in the village for 30 years it's never happened before, but that really means nothing. When the water level stopped raising I've never felt more relieved, noise of the water in the book was absolutely terrifying at the water edge, F1 level loud, but totally out of control, if you stepped in it, your are gone. A family sadly lost a child that day in the city due to the same flood, nature really does remind us how insignificant we all are
.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7v0p73d6qeo
It was the first winter we spent in the house after 18 months of renovating works, honestly watching the water level come up, and knowing there was absolutely nothing I could was the most helpless I've felt in my adult life ever......Why would you pay money to live somewhere that you know is almost certainly going to flood???!!!? It really isn't an experience anyone should willingly expose themselves too!!!
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 19th May 06:15
When I was at our UK office couple of times a week used to walk into the town centre at lunchtime. Part of it went through a housing estate through which ran a small quiet brook deep down in it's watercourse. Plus I really mean deep down.
Away overseas for a couple of weeks, get back and hear that had missed a flood event. Hadn't affected work itself other than closure of the main A road which prevented access to the front gate. Photos showed road closed through a dip with water level such that the central reserve Armco barriers disappeared below the water surface for some distance.
It was a sudden rainstorm with severe flash flooding affecting an area not to be thought at risk, and the flood maps at the time showed no risk. However due to a lack of maintenance, debris had built up at the entrance to a culvert (tunnel?) where this brook passed beneath one of the estate roads, water backed up and flooded. Apparently all happened so quickly people had little time to rescue much property.
Taking my walk up to town the damage was evident, every single house had stuff out on the front that had been written off. Even some in positions where frankly had difficulty imagining how the water level could rise that far. In time the fronts were cleared replaced by skips for the builders who were working to get the houses back to habitable. Some places, especially bungalows were empty and suppose some places people were trying to stay just in the upstairs.
A full year later they were still working at it in the worst affected houses.
Living nearish to the River Severn I'd already done my homework on that one, in terms of practical risk, basically none. Though it didn't stop an interesting discussion one year at insurance renewal time when Environment Agency appeared to have changed its flood modelling programme, which was soon kicked into touch as not accurate.
In short for the OP it sounds like it would be a hard pass from me having seen the ongoing devastation and long term disruption from an unexpected event due to extreme weather and some organisation not doing its job properly.
Away overseas for a couple of weeks, get back and hear that had missed a flood event. Hadn't affected work itself other than closure of the main A road which prevented access to the front gate. Photos showed road closed through a dip with water level such that the central reserve Armco barriers disappeared below the water surface for some distance.
It was a sudden rainstorm with severe flash flooding affecting an area not to be thought at risk, and the flood maps at the time showed no risk. However due to a lack of maintenance, debris had built up at the entrance to a culvert (tunnel?) where this brook passed beneath one of the estate roads, water backed up and flooded. Apparently all happened so quickly people had little time to rescue much property.
Taking my walk up to town the damage was evident, every single house had stuff out on the front that had been written off. Even some in positions where frankly had difficulty imagining how the water level could rise that far. In time the fronts were cleared replaced by skips for the builders who were working to get the houses back to habitable. Some places, especially bungalows were empty and suppose some places people were trying to stay just in the upstairs.
A full year later they were still working at it in the worst affected houses.
Living nearish to the River Severn I'd already done my homework on that one, in terms of practical risk, basically none. Though it didn't stop an interesting discussion one year at insurance renewal time when Environment Agency appeared to have changed its flood modelling programme, which was soon kicked into touch as not accurate.
In short for the OP it sounds like it would be a hard pass from me having seen the ongoing devastation and long term disruption from an unexpected event due to extreme weather and some organisation not doing its job properly.
Spoonz_ said:
I'm currently in the process of selling my house and purchasing another. The searches have come back for the house we are looking to buy and all is well with the exception of the environmental report...
It has flagged up a significant risk of surface water flooding and looks quite scary at first glance. Having done a load of research and speaking with neighbours, I feel fairly confident that the risk isn't as bad as made out in the report when you factor in drainage and the permeable areas around the house. For context, it's within 150m of a large river but is deemed low risk of flooding from a watercourse. The sellers have advised via solicitors that it has never flooded and have also confirmed this when I have raised with the agent.
The red flag is insurance. When comparing to identical houses in the same 'flood zone, it is almost 3 times the cost.
Is it possible for a house to be 'black listed' by insurers? Possibly for previous claims? Having spoken with insurers on the phone, they are unable to/won't share any information.
As much as we don't want to pull out of the purchase and probably loose the buyers of our house in the process, I really don't want to be buying a headache.
Does the price you're paying take into account the much higher cost of living there? And account for the reality that it is a cost that will almost certainly get higher and higher and make selling in the future an issue?It has flagged up a significant risk of surface water flooding and looks quite scary at first glance. Having done a load of research and speaking with neighbours, I feel fairly confident that the risk isn't as bad as made out in the report when you factor in drainage and the permeable areas around the house. For context, it's within 150m of a large river but is deemed low risk of flooding from a watercourse. The sellers have advised via solicitors that it has never flooded and have also confirmed this when I have raised with the agent.
The red flag is insurance. When comparing to identical houses in the same 'flood zone, it is almost 3 times the cost.
Is it possible for a house to be 'black listed' by insurers? Possibly for previous claims? Having spoken with insurers on the phone, they are unable to/won't share any information.
As much as we don't want to pull out of the purchase and probably loose the buyers of our house in the process, I really don't want to be buying a headache.
Millions of people live in such homes, ultimately it boils down to whether the price paid reflects the situation.
OP have you actually seen the report from the environment agency? Or are you going on something the solicitor has said?
I had a property that was showing 'at risk' by insurance companies, we got a proper flood risk report from the environment agency and it showed a low risk, 1 in 100 years.
I had a property that was showing 'at risk' by insurance companies, we got a proper flood risk report from the environment agency and it showed a low risk, 1 in 100 years.
There's no substitute for walking the ground with eyes wide open. Daughter looked at one place, no risk of anything from a watercourse.
However what about in extremely heavy rain? VOn one side of the road houses were situated above. Other side, below and drives had a significant slope down to the front door. If the road drains got overwhelmed then rainwater would run down the drive straight to the front door. EA saying not an issue but then they're acting for the seller and looking for their commission.
Road drains looked as if there hadn't been a gully sucker in ages, sure enough some doors down someone had a few sandbags left near the dropped kerb. Said it all.
However what about in extremely heavy rain? VOn one side of the road houses were situated above. Other side, below and drives had a significant slope down to the front door. If the road drains got overwhelmed then rainwater would run down the drive straight to the front door. EA saying not an issue but then they're acting for the seller and looking for their commission.
Road drains looked as if there hadn't been a gully sucker in ages, sure enough some doors down someone had a few sandbags left near the dropped kerb. Said it all.
Thanks all for the useful replies. For context, the house is in Windsor which one would think has good infrastructure given the flooding that took place in the 40s but you never know.
Yes, I've seen the report. Risk of surface water flooding is classed as 'significant' which is the second highest classification. Flood water risk is 'very low' despite being within 200m of the Thames although as another poster usefully pointed out, the two are linked.
The house does sit below the height of the road by around 400mm (estimate) which I guess is the issue.
The house is otherwise ideal although no idea if the price reflects the risk. Probably not. Hard to put a price on it.
Agreed with the poster above about the ongoing increased cost of insurance. It's only going one way too.
Yes, I've seen the report. Risk of surface water flooding is classed as 'significant' which is the second highest classification. Flood water risk is 'very low' despite being within 200m of the Thames although as another poster usefully pointed out, the two are linked.
The house does sit below the height of the road by around 400mm (estimate) which I guess is the issue.
The house is otherwise ideal although no idea if the price reflects the risk. Probably not. Hard to put a price on it.
Agreed with the poster above about the ongoing increased cost of insurance. It's only going one way too.
Edited by Spoonz_ on Friday 22 May 21:35
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