10-80% in 3 minutes 44 seconds (not-so-plain old LFP)
Discussion
While we're all holding our breaths waiting for the solid state to arrive:
https://www.battery-energy-storage-system.com/news...
The 10-35% in one minute is also pretty impressive, in case you need a quick "spark and dash" to get to the destination. Other sources mentioned 280Wh/kg, which is in the same ballpark as quoted for advanced NMC (Cobalt-containing & more expensive) batteries.
Semi-related: the Donut Labs saga seems to be Theranosing.
https://www.battery-energy-storage-system.com/news...
The 10-35% in one minute is also pretty impressive, in case you need a quick "spark and dash" to get to the destination. Other sources mentioned 280Wh/kg, which is in the same ballpark as quoted for advanced NMC (Cobalt-containing & more expensive) batteries.
Semi-related: the Donut Labs saga seems to be Theranosing.
Edited by PetrolHeadInRecovery on Wednesday 22 April 09:37
I think we ll start seeing models being launched in UK with 600kw+ charging speeds in 2027. I imagine cars like the upcoming i3 / C class will be outgunned pretty quickly in terms of range added in 10 mins .
I see Ionity has started installation work for some HYC1000 chargers and BYD also rolling out their flash charging stations.
I expect even on a 800v / 400kw charging station these new BYD / CATL batteries will be able to top up more quickly than the new ix3 / i3, as they should be able to hold the max charge for longer.
I see Ionity has started installation work for some HYC1000 chargers and BYD also rolling out their flash charging stations.
I expect even on a 800v / 400kw charging station these new BYD / CATL batteries will be able to top up more quickly than the new ix3 / i3, as they should be able to hold the max charge for longer.
motco said:
This is all very well but it can only apply to public charging stations. Home charging is where the economy of EVs lies and that will remain limited by the power limitations of domestic supplies.
Time isn't a factor for most with regards to home charging though of course. Even with EV tariffs limiting cheap charging to 7 hours. that's still 150-200 miles a night for most EV's on a standard 7kW charger.The real limitation with home charging isn't speed, it's accessibility.
ashenfie said:
Seams majorly confusing. We start we a battery that can be charged super fast, then move onto battery swapping and then another battery that can also be charged super fast. Why do we need all these development if the Shenxing battery is so good?
What’s confusing? The made it perfectly clear the battery swapping is designed for extreme temperature situations. motco said:
This is all very well but it can only apply to public charging stations. Home charging is where the economy of EVs lies and that will remain limited by the power limitations of domestic supplies.
There's usually a difference, but charging with IONITY (with passport Power) in Finland costs less than the basic household electricity rate in Geneva. I think even with the dual rate (about 0.19€/kWh nighttime), you might just break even if you account for AC charging losses.Policies, technical developments and competition should narrow the gap between home and public charging (eventually).
SWoll said:
motco said:
This is all very well but it can only apply to public charging stations. Home charging is where the economy of EVs lies and that will remain limited by the power limitations of domestic supplies.
Time isn't a factor for most with regards to home charging though of course. Even with EV tariffs limiting cheap charging to 7 hours. that's still 150-200 miles a night for most EV's on a standard 7kW charger.The real limitation with home charging isn't speed, it's accessibility.
No one gives a toss how long it takes to charge once you're at home sipping wine or snoring. It takes exactly 10 seconds to charge at home: 5 seconds to plug in, 5 seconds to unplug in the morning.
Dave Hedgehog said:
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
While we're all holding our breaths waiting for the solid state to arrive:
I'm not, don t need it unless its cheaper and lighterThe first genuine lab sample solid state cells have barely improved on li-ion energy density anyway. The potential for solid state to massively increase energy density is real, but as with li-ion, it'll take a lot of time post initial commercial readiness to actually approach that potential. There's no chance that solid state EV's are going to arrive and instantly make existing EV's worthless.
Also... if you have an EV then it's existing range and packaging obviously works, and even when there is an improvement, it doesn't mean that everyone suddenly 'needs more'.
It's not just about private cars though.
Also if charging was that much quicker, maybe we would accept charging more often, so a smaller battery would be acceptable.
Leading to smaller, cheaper cars?
EVs as we see them today are pretty good, but lots of people (and companies etc) are still not buying them.
People are still choosing diesel vans and hybrid repmobiles for valid business reasons.
Also if charging was that much quicker, maybe we would accept charging more often, so a smaller battery would be acceptable.
Leading to smaller, cheaper cars?
EVs as we see them today are pretty good, but lots of people (and companies etc) are still not buying them.
People are still choosing diesel vans and hybrid repmobiles for valid business reasons.
OutInTheShed said:
It's not just about private cars though.
Also if charging was that much quicker, maybe we would accept charging more often, so a smaller battery would be acceptable.
Leading to smaller, cheaper cars?
Re. not just private cars: I'm wondering if BYD's plans for the 1500kW chargers (that are presumably using some kind of wildcat specification based on CCS2) will slow down the plans for the megawatt charging systems (up to 3.5MW power levels) aimed at HGVs. 1500kW would charge a typical 400-500kWh battery in about 20 minutes.Also if charging was that much quicker, maybe we would accept charging more often, so a smaller battery would be acceptable.
Leading to smaller, cheaper cars?
Re. smaller, cheaper cars: it looks like this is already happening, to a degree. For example, the Ora Good Cat weighs 1500 kg and costs 21,000€ (in Thailand). Not a great car perhaps, but decent range, funky styling and as much performance as you'd need.
But you can already have a 1500bhp car with a ~100kWh battery that weighs less than a Euro 6e performance car with half the power (Xiaomi SU7 Ultra vs G90 BMW M5). And the halo EV model will sell quite a few lower-spec versions at minimal R&D/compliance costs. Might be a better business proposition.
That 10–35% in a minute bit is the killer feature. That’s the difference between stressing about making the next charger and just grabbing a quick splash and carrying on. Feels way more relevant than chasing 0–100 bragging rights.
The awkward bit is the infrastructure. Cars might be ready for it, but most sites, whether it’s Tesla, Ionity or InstaVolt, aren’t anywhere near delivering that kind of power consistently. Yes, the UK and charger brands are trying to resolve this problem, rapid (sorry for the pun), but for now we have to make do as is. So for a while it’ll just mean shorter stops on existing kit rather than true “petrol parity”.
The ~280 Wh/kg is quietly a big deal too. That’s basically NMC territory without the usual downsides, which is why this matters more than yet another solid-state promise.
The awkward bit is the infrastructure. Cars might be ready for it, but most sites, whether it’s Tesla, Ionity or InstaVolt, aren’t anywhere near delivering that kind of power consistently. Yes, the UK and charger brands are trying to resolve this problem, rapid (sorry for the pun), but for now we have to make do as is. So for a while it’ll just mean shorter stops on existing kit rather than true “petrol parity”.
The ~280 Wh/kg is quietly a big deal too. That’s basically NMC territory without the usual downsides, which is why this matters more than yet another solid-state promise.
CactusJackEV said:
That 10 35% in a minute bit is the killer feature. That s the difference between stressing about making the next charger and just grabbing a quick splash and carrying on. Feels way more relevant than chasing 0 100 bragging rights.
The awkward bit is the infrastructure. Cars might be ready for it, but most sites, whether it s Tesla, Ionity or InstaVolt, aren t anywhere near delivering that kind of power consistently. Yes, the UK and charger brands are trying to resolve this problem, rapid (sorry for the pun), but for now we have to make do as is. So for a while it ll just mean shorter stops on existing kit rather than true petrol parity .
The ~280 Wh/kg is quietly a big deal too. That s basically NMC territory without the usual downsides, which is why this matters more than yet another solid-state promise.
On that point around shorter stops on existing infrastructure, here’s a graph of the new Denza charging on a 400A max charger. It holds the max 360kw charge until 80%. The awkward bit is the infrastructure. Cars might be ready for it, but most sites, whether it s Tesla, Ionity or InstaVolt, aren t anywhere near delivering that kind of power consistently. Yes, the UK and charger brands are trying to resolve this problem, rapid (sorry for the pun), but for now we have to make do as is. So for a while it ll just mean shorter stops on existing kit rather than true petrol parity .
The ~280 Wh/kg is quietly a big deal too. That s basically NMC territory without the usual downsides, which is why this matters more than yet another solid-state promise.
https://x.com/tphuang/status/2038966063526805853/p...
When we start getting cars that can hold max charge on one of the many 350-400kw charging stations, in an efficient car (e.g. CLA / Model 3) that’s >33 miles of WLTP range added per minute of charging (20 miles/min if we take a worst case scenario of cold weather motorway driving).
So that’s still a significant step up as we’re realistically talking sub 9 min top ups to add 2.5 hours of winter motorway driving.
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
Semi-related: the Donut Labs saga seems to be Theranosing.
Felt too good to be true. _Rodders_ said:
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
Semi-related: the Donut Labs saga seems to be Theranosing.
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