£100k+ Trackday Insurance
Discussion
Hi everyone,
Sort of an old topic, but it’s becoming a bit more relevant this year.
My 992.2 GT3 insurance is up for renewal next month.
Towards the end of last year ClassicLine informed me that there was no longer any cover available for EU Trackdays. Luckily this was just after two days at Spa and Zandvoort in October, which were covered, with an additional £260-ish premium per day, with max £100k cover, which I was happy with.
Last years underwriter was Ageas.
My renewal quote just came through, which was similar to last year, and after a call to confirm, UK Trackdays are covered in a similar way to last year. Max 6 days. If run by a club that I’m a member of, such as PCGB, then there is no additional premium. Non-club days are an addition £134 per day, max £100k coverage. Again, I’m happy with that.
On the proposed new policy the underwriter has changed from Ageon to ERS.
But importantly for me, there is still no option for EU trackday cover.
Basically it seems that no current GT3/RS/£100k+ products are being covered for EU trackdays with my current UK insurer.
So the question is, does anyone else have access to insurance cover for EU and UK trackdays for the current range of GT cars that are valued over £100k?
Any help or guidance would be appreciated.
Cheers
Jack
Sort of an old topic, but it’s becoming a bit more relevant this year.
My 992.2 GT3 insurance is up for renewal next month.
Towards the end of last year ClassicLine informed me that there was no longer any cover available for EU Trackdays. Luckily this was just after two days at Spa and Zandvoort in October, which were covered, with an additional £260-ish premium per day, with max £100k cover, which I was happy with.
Last years underwriter was Ageas.
My renewal quote just came through, which was similar to last year, and after a call to confirm, UK Trackdays are covered in a similar way to last year. Max 6 days. If run by a club that I’m a member of, such as PCGB, then there is no additional premium. Non-club days are an addition £134 per day, max £100k coverage. Again, I’m happy with that.
On the proposed new policy the underwriter has changed from Ageon to ERS.
But importantly for me, there is still no option for EU trackday cover.
Basically it seems that no current GT3/RS/£100k+ products are being covered for EU trackdays with my current UK insurer.
So the question is, does anyone else have access to insurance cover for EU and UK trackdays for the current range of GT cars that are valued over £100k?
Any help or guidance would be appreciated.
Cheers
Jack
Best mate is in the insurance business, high enough up that he knows people who own the insurance companies (not brokers) and we looked into it.
The standard insurance saying is "The many pay for the few".
Now, while that works in the normal world where it's law that you have insurance, in the track day world there simply isn't enough people to pay for the few folk who'll have a big accident or one worth claiming on.
Take your (circa) £150k GT3. It wouldn't take much of a prang at Spa or the 'ring to write it off. So let's say your excess is 20%, so they pay out £120k and attempt to get back perhaps £60k salvage by the time other costs are taken into account.
So they're out £60k on one single car on one single track day.
To finance that risk, how many cars paying how much each would they need to have to be the "many" covering the "few"?
I can't see track day insurance ever taking off until it's mandatory that every car has at least third party insurance and even then it may make it so expensive that track days would be financially impossible to run.
Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but it's likely that escalating car and parts pricing on fancy track day cars mean that those insurers who thought it a nice carrot to dangle customers have likely look at the numbers and realised it isn't worth the financial exposure.
The standard insurance saying is "The many pay for the few".
Now, while that works in the normal world where it's law that you have insurance, in the track day world there simply isn't enough people to pay for the few folk who'll have a big accident or one worth claiming on.
Take your (circa) £150k GT3. It wouldn't take much of a prang at Spa or the 'ring to write it off. So let's say your excess is 20%, so they pay out £120k and attempt to get back perhaps £60k salvage by the time other costs are taken into account.
So they're out £60k on one single car on one single track day.
To finance that risk, how many cars paying how much each would they need to have to be the "many" covering the "few"?
I can't see track day insurance ever taking off until it's mandatory that every car has at least third party insurance and even then it may make it so expensive that track days would be financially impossible to run.
Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but it's likely that escalating car and parts pricing on fancy track day cars mean that those insurers who thought it a nice carrot to dangle customers have likely look at the numbers and realised it isn't worth the financial exposure.
To be fair, using one organisation as an example, PCGB have 18 track days left this year. Let's say the average is 40 cars.
If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
rob.kellock said:
To be fair, using one organisation as an example, PCGB have 18 track days left this year. Let's say the average is 40 cars.
If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
And if 2 cars crash that year? 3? It wouldn't take anything too wildly extraordinary for the financial losses to mount for the insurer. Using your example even if they counted on 5 cars per year you're suddenly at £417 per car, on top of the trackday, fuel, consumables and travel.If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
And that's with a 20% excess where if you have a little off that only damaged something relatively minor-you'er not covered. I can't see it flying.
rob.kellock said:
To be fair, using one organisation as an example, PCGB have 18 track days left this year. Let's say the average is 40 cars.
If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
PCGB trackdays are in the UK though, which many insurers cover.If there was one serious collision, it would be a bad outcome for the Club. Historically, a year without major incident would not be unusual.
Using your maths, if that collision cost £60k net of salvage and excess, then that's a risk shared by 720 drivers - £83.33 per head.
My last quote for standalone trackday cover was many, many multiples of that...
European is a lot more complicated. Add to that the costs or replacing armco, circuit fees for any clean ups and also recovery back to the UK.... it all adds up
Hi Jack
Hope your enjoying the 992?
In a similar position as you classic line customer and before that Mannings Uk.
My renewal is December and at the time spoke to most high end insures that TDT mentioned and still ended up with classic line. All othered where 2 to 3 times as much and had more restrictions on number of days or additional cost per Uk day.
Also spoke to a few insure my Trackdays companies like Morris and they basically insure per day at 0.8% uk and upto 1.2% for Europe days all based on car value.
You can also pick how much value you want to insure. This can be improved on by doing a multi track day cover i.e buying a policy for 3 plus days etc.
This is what I’m considering for my TD at Spa.
The good old days were Mannings covered everything for an annual premium are sadly gone.
Jon
Hope your enjoying the 992?
In a similar position as you classic line customer and before that Mannings Uk.
My renewal is December and at the time spoke to most high end insures that TDT mentioned and still ended up with classic line. All othered where 2 to 3 times as much and had more restrictions on number of days or additional cost per Uk day.
Also spoke to a few insure my Trackdays companies like Morris and they basically insure per day at 0.8% uk and upto 1.2% for Europe days all based on car value.
You can also pick how much value you want to insure. This can be improved on by doing a multi track day cover i.e buying a policy for 3 plus days etc.
This is what I’m considering for my TD at Spa.
The good old days were Mannings covered everything for an annual premium are sadly gone.
Jon
Starting to see co-insurance for Nurburgring quotes now. So you have an excess amount, but then you also pay a percentage of any claim.
Thing is, the newer cars, especially because of all the lovely carbon fibre, are very, very expensive to rebuild. A mate had a shunt in his then new 991.2 GT3 RS when he first got it, early 2019. Aquaplaned on motorway when everyone braked suddenly and he glanced off barrier. Headlight, wing and repair to small crack in tub by frunk; £45k. Back then. Look at the video of Matt Armstrong rebuilding Mr JWW's 992 RS and the numbers they talk about are frightening.
Thing is, the newer cars, especially because of all the lovely carbon fibre, are very, very expensive to rebuild. A mate had a shunt in his then new 991.2 GT3 RS when he first got it, early 2019. Aquaplaned on motorway when everyone braked suddenly and he glanced off barrier. Headlight, wing and repair to small crack in tub by frunk; £45k. Back then. Look at the video of Matt Armstrong rebuilding Mr JWW's 992 RS and the numbers they talk about are frightening.
Terry, the market and situation does seem to be changing all the while, but as of last year, I could insure my previous car, 997.1 GT3 at Nurburgring for under £800 a day with reasonable excess.
Seems the underwriters are constantly reviewing and changing opinions, but Moris, Manings etc. were offering cover.
Seems the underwriters are constantly reviewing and changing opinions, but Moris, Manings etc. were offering cover.
terryb said:
Is it possible to get euro cover for sub £100k cars like the GT4 or older GT3s? Like others here, I used to have cover with Mannings and £500 a day for cover at the Ring on a GT3RS, but the lack of cover means I need to consider a different model in future for euro trackdays.
Yes. Taylor Henderson insured a friends 996.2 GT3 earlier this year, approx £900, and that included UK and EU trackday cover for 5-6 events. So yes, looks like older and sub£100k cars can still get the “old” type of cover that Mannings used to provide.
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