296 vs 296 Speciale vs 296 CS

[LondonCarGuy]

If Ferrari does launch a non-hybrid road car in the form of a 296 CS, then what happens to 296 Speciale prices? We don't normally get three versions of a car.

[kbf1981]

I don't think - and dealer says this too - that there will be many non hybrid ones.

I've heard that they'll be "track only" - don't know if that's true... but..... dealer says they're only getting less than half the 296 Speciale vs what they got of Pista's, and less than even the 458 Speciale.

I expect there will be 125 total 296 Speciale's in the UK - there were 188 458 Speciale's, and something like 300-400 Pista from memory. This is based on numbers I've heard dealers say they're getting and extrapolating from that.

This makes some sense as they know they over produced the 296 and got hit with covid asset price changes, so probably want to correct that or they burn their customers, and what matters most to Ferrari are repeat customers who move up the food chain in the brand (they say as much in their annual report).

Also the UK market isnt as good as other markets round the world, so why ship a load here? In the USA you have 458 Speciale's and Pista's approaching $1m, you have much higher demand and tighter supply, why bother selling too many 296 Speciale's in the UK when the UK is by far the cheapest place in the world to buy a Ferrari?

If you were Ferrari and wanted to maximise your money, you'd ship more to the USA and elsewhere and less to the UK given that prices here are the lowest in the world.

I suspect that the CS non hybrid will be very, very limited, possibly a track only XX

I suspect that this will happen:

- 296 GTB and GTS have now finished production. Whatever has been sold has been sold. UK prices will stabilise and eventually people will get used to hybrid and see that its a much better car than the 458, 488 etc... which are great as they are, wouldn't see what way a 296 went

- 296 Speciale - if they do only sell 125 total cars in UK (or even 180), then that's super rare for a non-numbered car vs Scud, Speciale and Pista. What way prices go immediately after launch depends more on the UK economy and labour than it does anything Ferrari do (e.g. if Green party looks like they're getting in, and Labour keep on stealing other people's money, then there will be no overs, and I suspect you can pick one up at list in the next year, if Reform look like they're getting in next time, and Labour finally realise their policies have caused mass unemployment masquerading as sickness, mass national debt, and an economy that sucks, and do something to fix that, or at least sound like they will, prices will go up after launch due to limited supply and more than 125 people in the UK wanting one).

- 296 CS / XX - will be so limited its bound to already have Ferrari working out who gets one centrally, and go up in value, as there are so few

Edited by kbf1981 on Sunday 8th March 20:00

Edited by kbf1981 on Sunday 8th March 20:01

[kbf1981]

Just looked online -

2008 Scud = £300k
2014 Speciale = £400k
2028 Pista = £300-330k

I recon most 296 Speciale will leave the factory at £450k, with early ones being around £500k after options

Those cars ending up around £400k on the bottom end of the market and £500k on top end feels reasonable given the above. If a Scud is worth £300k, and a Pista you can pay £350k for, when it's 7 years old, would you spend an extra £50k to get the lighest optioned 296 Speciale? 7 yr servicing, 5 yr warranty... and we know it'll be the fastest real life model they produce on a typical road as its so small and so fast, and easy to place.

[LondonCarGuy]

kbf1981 said:

I don't think - and dealer says this too - that there will be many non hybrid ones.

I've heard that they'll be "track only" - don't know if that's true... but..... dealer says they're only getting less than half the 296 Speciale vs what they got of Pista's, and less than even the 458 Speciale.

I expect there will be 125 total 296 Speciale's in the UK - there were 188 458 Speciale's, and something like 300-400 Pista from memory. This is based on numbers I've heard dealers say they're getting and extrapolating from that.

This makes some sense as they know they over produced the 296 and got hit with covid asset price changes, so probably want to correct that or they burn their customers, and what matters most to Ferrari are repeat customers who move up the food chain in the brand (they say as much in their annual report).

Also the UK market isnt as good as other markets round the world, so why ship a load here? In the USA you have 458 Speciale's and Pista's approaching $1m, you have much higher demand and tighter supply, why bother selling too many 296 Speciale's in the UK when the UK is by far the cheapest place in the world to buy a Ferrari?

If you were Ferrari and wanted to maximise your money, you'd ship more to the USA and elsewhere and less to the UK given that prices here are the lowest in the world.

I suspect that the CS non hybrid will be very, very limited, possibly a track only XX

I suspect that this will happen:

- 296 GTB and GTS have now finished production. Whatever has been sold has been sold. UK prices will stabilise and eventually people will get used to hybrid and see that its a much better car than the 458, 488 etc... which are great as they are, wouldn't see what way a 296 went

- 296 Speciale - if they do only sell 125 total cars in UK (or even 180), then that's super rare for a non-numbered car vs Scud, Speciale and Pista. What way prices go immediately after launch depends more on the UK economy and labour than it does anything Ferrari do (e.g. if Green party looks like they're getting in, and Labour keep on stealing other people's money, then there will be no overs, and I suspect you can pick one up at list in the next year, if Reform look like they're getting in next time, and Labour finally realise their policies have caused mass unemployment masquerading as sickness, mass national debt, and an economy that sucks, and do something to fix that, or at least sound like they will, prices will go up after launch due to limited supply and more than 125 people in the UK wanting one).

- 296 CS / XX - will be so limited its bound to already have Ferrari working out who gets one centrally, and go up in value, as there are so few

Edited by kbf1981 on Sunday 8th March 20:00

Edited by kbf1981 on Sunday 8th March 20:01

There already is the non-hybrid track-only 296 Challenge.

[WCZ]

the 296 cs is happening and will be a road car, not sure of numbers but because it's going to a proper lightweight focused car I think it's going to be a proper limited edition and will sell for a huge premium

could affect the prices of the 296 spec as that'll be the car that everyone wants

[LondonCarGuy]

WCZ said:

the 296 cs is happening and will be a road car, not sure of numbers but because it's going to a proper lightweight focused car I think it's going to be a proper limited edition and will sell for a huge premium

could affect the prices of the 296 spec as that'll be the car that everyone wants

That makes sense. If it's truly limited numbers, then you are probably correct, the CS will be the ultimate desired road 296.

Maybe I get a shot at a 296 Speciale at a reasonable price in a couple of years :-)

[maura]

Kbf1981, sorry but there will be way more than 125 UK 296 Speciales you don t understand the Ferrari board now. The non hybrid car has been in the pipeline for awhile but not sure on numbers, but will be some car. Almost double your assumptions, 330 UK 458 Speciales and about 440 UK Pista Coupes and 160 UK Pista Spiders, but jtremlett will know, not the dealer talk.

Edited by maura on Monday 9th March 23:02

[jtremlett]

maura said:

Kbf1981, sorry but there will be way more than 125 UK 296 Speciales you don t understand the Ferrari board now. The non hybrid car has been in the pipeline for awhile but not sure on numbers, but will be some car. Almost double your assumptions, 330 UK 458 Speciales and about 440 UK Pista Coupes and 160 UK Pista Spiders, but jtremlett will know, not the dealer talk.

Edited by maura on Monday 9th March 23:02

I have:
333 UK 458 Speciales
70 UK 458 Speciale Apertas
457 UK 488 Pistas (including Pista Piloti)
144 UK 488 Pista Spiders

Note that only the first is confirmed by Ferrari

[LondonCarGuy]

jtremlett said:

have:
333 UK 458 Speciales
70 UK 458 Speciale Apertas
457 UK 488 Pistas (including Pista Piloti)
144 UK 488 Pista Spiders

Note that only the first is confirmed by Ferrari

Thanks, Jonathan. The DVLA data I was looking at suggested about 650 total 488 Pista coupes and spyders. Of which 51 were SORN. All as of Q3-25. But I think 600-650 in total feels right for the Pistas. Thanks for sharing.

[jtremlett]

Some years back I queried with the DVLA why the numbers they published (i.e. the raw data that is used by HowManyLeft etc.) did not match the numbers I had. I picked I think, from memory, 2015 458 Speciales because there were only a small number (something like two dozen) and I had, again from memory, seven more than the DVLA numbers said were registered. A very helpful person at the DVLA replied. Basically, six of the seven were recorded as the wrong model and one was recorded as a Laverda motorbike!! Of course, the other thing is that the DVLA summary data does not distinguish between imports, LHD/RHD etc. So, for example, there were 333 Speciales officially imported but there are more than that registered currently and 60+ that have previously been registered at one time or another but aren't now (exported or written off).

[LondonCarGuy]

jtremlett said:

Some years back I queried with the DVLA why the numbers they published (i.e. the raw data that is used by HowManyLeft etc.) did not match the numbers I had. I picked I think, from memory, 2015 458 Speciales because there were only a small number (something like two dozen) and I had, again from memory, seven more than the DVLA numbers said were registered. A very helpful person at the DVLA replied. Basically, six of the seven were recorded as the wrong model and one was recorded as a Laverda motorbike!! Of course, the other thing is that the DVLA summary data does not distinguish between imports, LHD/RHD etc. So, for example, there were 333 Speciales officially imported but there are more than that registered currently and 60+ that have previously been registered at one time or another but aren't now (exported or written off).

That's good to know, thanks for sharing. I definitely trust your figures over DVLA. I always thought of DVLA figures as directionally accurate, not absolute.

[LondonCarGuy]

Just thinking about power and weight figures for the upcoming 296 CS. They can take the hybrid system out of the Speciale, which will save weight, but then there's some items that will be installed in the CS like a starter, alternator, etc. The CS will need approximately 774 bhp to match the 750S power-to-weight ratio.

[XMA Simon]

kbf1981 said:

... and we know it'll be the fastest real life model they produce on a typical road as its so small and so fast, and easy to place.

I am a big fan of the 296. However road space is not one of its strengths. While the styling of the car makes it look compact, in actual fact the 296 really isn't that small: the wheelbase is shortened relative to its mid-V8 predecessors but the overall physical length is actually longer than F8 or 488. It sticks out of parking spaces even when you use the full length of the parking space. And the 296 is wide. The width is very much a constraint to using the car on some country routes but is also becoming an increasing problem using the car in some urban settings too.

I've noticed the big brains in local government spending the precious road budget on widening pavements by narrowing roads on heavily used routes used by lorries and with almost no pedestrians. For example this has happened on the industrial park - hence all the lorries - in which my gym is located. But these narrower road, wider pavements for non existent pedestrians have been poping up everywhere near where I live. Clearly the intention is to slow down motorists but they assume that two compact vehicles are approaching each other from opposite directions. Not one lorry and one large car in opposite directions. Meanwhile potholes go unrepaired for months and when they do get patched the patch fails within weeks.

Anyways back on the subject of 296 base vs Speciale vs CS. My 2c is the sometimes the base model is the best. Everyone chases the low production special and if your intention is a garage queen used for a few track adventures and keep mileage low for resale, then I can see why if you are able to snag one. But as a road car I'd prefer the base car, to use it and be damned on resale. As my comments on road presence admit that it is not the most practical car but it is a hell of a fun way to travel.

[LondonCarGuy]

XMA Simon said:

I am a big fan of the 296. However road space is not one of its strengths. While the styling of the car makes it look compact, in actual fact the 296 really isn't that small: the wheelbase is shortened relative to its mid-V8 predecessors but the overall physical length is actually longer than F8 or 488. It sticks out of parking spaces even when you use the full length of the parking space. And the 296 is wide. The width is very much a constraint to using the car on some country routes but is also becoming an increasing problem using the car in some urban settings too.

I've noticed the big brains in local government spending the precious road budget on widening pavements by narrowing roads on heavily used routes used by lorries and with almost no pedestrians. For example this has happened on the industrial park - hence all the lorries - in which my gym is located. But these narrower road, wider pavements for non existent pedestrians have been poping up everywhere near where I live. Clearly the intention is to slow down motorists but they assume that two compact vehicles are approaching each other from opposite directions. Not one lorry and one large car in opposite directions. Meanwhile potholes go unrepaired for months and when they do get patched the patch fails within weeks.

Anyways back on the subject of 296 base vs Speciale vs CS. My 2c is the sometimes the base model is the best. Everyone chases the low production special and if your intention is a garage queen used for a few track adventures and keep mileage low for resale, then I can see why if you are able to snag one. But as a road car I'd prefer the base car, to use it and be damned on resale. As my comments on road presence admit that it is not the most practical car but it is a hell of a fun way to travel.

I just checked the dimensions. None of them are tiny for sure.

[MingtheMerciless]

The 296 is also lower than the 458 which, together with the width, causes genuine difficulties on narrow and undulating roads. It also has a good bit less space inside and is more awkward to get in and out of. If anyone is especially tall or bulky, they may have difficulties.

To put it in context, imagine driving a car which is 4 cm narrower than a Defender and less than half its height.

This sounds like a moan but I still think it is a great car, these inconveniences aside.

[LondonCarGuy]

MingtheMerciless said:

The 296 is also lower than the 458 which, together with the width, causes genuine difficulties on narrow and undulating roads. It also has a good bit less space inside and is more awkward to get in and out of. If anyone is especially tall or bulky, they may have difficulties.

To put it in context, imagine driving a car which is 4 cm narrower than a Defender and less than half its height.

This sounds like a moan but I still think it is a great car, these inconveniences aside.

I'm 5'6" tall, and when I get out of the car, I reach down and back my seat up all the way (manual racing seats). But agree, I love my car.

[XMA Simon]

MingtheMerciless said:

...The 296 is also lower than the 458 which...

I did actually find the approach angle listed on a technical appendix at the back of the owners manual: 9° without lift. This matches the approximate field measurement my dealer and I made with an old fashioned tape measure and a bit of schoolboy algebra. To put this into perspective this is about the same as on a 992 Carrera GTS (9.2° approach with sports suspension, without lift). So it is low, but not crazy low.

Of note is that with lift activated the approach angle is 12°, but you are limited to 20 mph with lift activated.

However as Ming points out there are issues on some roads. You do have to watch out for abrupt road troughs because in "sport" or "bumpy road" the dampers will compress quite a lot relative to something much more harshly sprung and dampened like the 992 GTS.

I doubt if prospective Speciale or CS owners care so much about such practicalities however.

[MingtheMerciless]

I did not express myself very well - I meant to say that the roofline is lower than the 458's. Getting in and out with the roof down is much more awkward than in the 458.

[MDL111]

is the car they are going to introduce at the Finali Mondiali the new 296 version or a different car?

[LondonCarGuy]

MDL111 said:

is the car they are going to introduce at the Finali Mondiali the new 296 version or a different car?

this Sunday, 13th September, I think the car Ferrari is going to reveal is the new 296-based track-only car, most likely called the Ferrari 296 GT Modificata.