eMTB for old bloke?
Discussion
All, some questions about eMTBs.
Background:
From about 1995 - 2005 I was quite keen on mountain biking and had rigid, hardtail and full-suspension bikes over the years (me being aged 25 - 35). A couple of bikes I built up myself from a frame, and I do my own maintenence.
Almost exclusively rode in the Peak District (Dark Peak area), with maximum ride lengths of about 20 miles, which often included steep rocky/rutted climbs like Jacob's Ladder, Margery Hill/Langsett, Derwent Edge etc.
Riding tailed off from 2005 due to family and other things, but did ride a bit, and also got a gravel bike which I've used, but not enough to stay fit. I'm now in a position (at nearly 56 years old) where I really want to do the old Peak District rides again, but just can't face the huge mountain (literally) of fitness I'd need to even get started. Every ride seems to start with a climb, which kills me. Talking over the past couple of years to some work colleagues about it, they say that an eMTB is the complete and obvious answer to this.
I was concerned over battery life, but they say that 20 miles in the Peak District including a couple of significant climbs will be no issue for an 800W/h battery.
They also say that the assistance modes will effectively let me do the harsh climbs while allowing some gain in fitness.
Cost is an obvious obstacle, so I guess a limit of around £4k is the most I'd want to pay.
I've got a GP appointment soon to - among other things - make sure this is a good idea in the first place from a physical fitness point of view. I believe that getting out again would benefit me both physically and mentally.
Questions:
1) Are eMTBs really that good that it I'd be able to within reason do all the stuff I did 20 years ago even being unfit at the moment?
2) I've been told that maybe one of the Trek Powerfly range would be good - any opinions?
3) Is it worth looking at factory re-furbed bikes? Could I get significantly "better" for the same money (factoring in potential costs if something did go wrong with a limited warranty)? I'd want to buy from a factory shop (like Trek) if I was going down that route.
4) I live within riding distance of Grenoside / Wharncliffe woods, but otherwise I always had to drive out to Hope or Ladybower or Edale or wherever to start a ride. In terms of getting them in and out of the car - are eMTBs significantly more difficult to get in a car - I know they're heavier and seem longer than others, but presumably without a battery they are liftable by one person?
5) I tend to keep bikes a long time, so would want decent gear, especially brakes. I've got a bit of thing about Hope or Shimano brakes since they've always been perfect for my old bikes, but I guess things could have changed.
6) Safety - I've heard scary things about scooter batteries exploding during charging or storage. Is this an issue with a decent brand of bike, or would it have to be kep in a shed rather than in a garage attached to the house?
Thanks.
Background:
From about 1995 - 2005 I was quite keen on mountain biking and had rigid, hardtail and full-suspension bikes over the years (me being aged 25 - 35). A couple of bikes I built up myself from a frame, and I do my own maintenence.
Almost exclusively rode in the Peak District (Dark Peak area), with maximum ride lengths of about 20 miles, which often included steep rocky/rutted climbs like Jacob's Ladder, Margery Hill/Langsett, Derwent Edge etc.
Riding tailed off from 2005 due to family and other things, but did ride a bit, and also got a gravel bike which I've used, but not enough to stay fit. I'm now in a position (at nearly 56 years old) where I really want to do the old Peak District rides again, but just can't face the huge mountain (literally) of fitness I'd need to even get started. Every ride seems to start with a climb, which kills me. Talking over the past couple of years to some work colleagues about it, they say that an eMTB is the complete and obvious answer to this.
I was concerned over battery life, but they say that 20 miles in the Peak District including a couple of significant climbs will be no issue for an 800W/h battery.
They also say that the assistance modes will effectively let me do the harsh climbs while allowing some gain in fitness.
Cost is an obvious obstacle, so I guess a limit of around £4k is the most I'd want to pay.
I've got a GP appointment soon to - among other things - make sure this is a good idea in the first place from a physical fitness point of view. I believe that getting out again would benefit me both physically and mentally.
Questions:
1) Are eMTBs really that good that it I'd be able to within reason do all the stuff I did 20 years ago even being unfit at the moment?
2) I've been told that maybe one of the Trek Powerfly range would be good - any opinions?
3) Is it worth looking at factory re-furbed bikes? Could I get significantly "better" for the same money (factoring in potential costs if something did go wrong with a limited warranty)? I'd want to buy from a factory shop (like Trek) if I was going down that route.
4) I live within riding distance of Grenoside / Wharncliffe woods, but otherwise I always had to drive out to Hope or Ladybower or Edale or wherever to start a ride. In terms of getting them in and out of the car - are eMTBs significantly more difficult to get in a car - I know they're heavier and seem longer than others, but presumably without a battery they are liftable by one person?
5) I tend to keep bikes a long time, so would want decent gear, especially brakes. I've got a bit of thing about Hope or Shimano brakes since they've always been perfect for my old bikes, but I guess things could have changed.
6) Safety - I've heard scary things about scooter batteries exploding during charging or storage. Is this an issue with a decent brand of bike, or would it have to be kep in a shed rather than in a garage attached to the house?
Thanks.
I would definitely recommend going for full suspension. There are really 2 types of ebikes. Full and mid power. The full power ones at around £4k tend to weigh around 24-26kg.
Mid power tend to be around half the power and have smaller batteries. So weigh less. I ve just bought a Trek Fuel exe 9.7. It is on sale for 3.2, down from over £7k. It weighs under 19kg and power wise it feels like 2 of me on full power. It should do 20 miles on a mix of the 3 settings (all configurable in the app). The motor is silent and no drag when you hit 15mph and motor stops assisting. For your budget you could add a water bottle extender to give another 50ish percent of range. It feels like a normal mountain bike whereas on a full power one you really feel the weight and feels to me like a different form of mountain biking. It is also a pain when trying to lift them into the boot or over styles.
I m 50 and was 122kg, now down to 106 and aiming to get into double digits. You do feel like you ve still had a workout.
Try a couple and see how you get on.
Oh and stick to a big brand and have no worries about batteries. The ones you see on fires are always dodgy Chinese cheap ones
Mid power tend to be around half the power and have smaller batteries. So weigh less. I ve just bought a Trek Fuel exe 9.7. It is on sale for 3.2, down from over £7k. It weighs under 19kg and power wise it feels like 2 of me on full power. It should do 20 miles on a mix of the 3 settings (all configurable in the app). The motor is silent and no drag when you hit 15mph and motor stops assisting. For your budget you could add a water bottle extender to give another 50ish percent of range. It feels like a normal mountain bike whereas on a full power one you really feel the weight and feels to me like a different form of mountain biking. It is also a pain when trying to lift them into the boot or over styles.
I m 50 and was 122kg, now down to 106 and aiming to get into double digits. You do feel like you ve still had a workout.
Try a couple and see how you get on.
Oh and stick to a big brand and have no worries about batteries. The ones you see on fires are always dodgy Chinese cheap ones
Edited by Stumpysid on Thursday 5th March 20:56
Stumpysid said:
I would definitely recommend going for full suspension. There are really 2 types of ebikes. Full and mid power. The full power ones at around £4k tend to weigh around 24-26kg.
Mid power tend to be around half the power and have smaller batteries. So weigh less. I ve just bought a Trek Fuel exe 9.7. It is on sale for 3.2, down from over £7k. It weighs under 19kg and power wise it feels like 2 of me on full power. It should do 20 miles on a mix of the 3 settings (all configurable in the app). The motor is silent and no drag when you hit 15mph and motor stops assisting. For your budget you could add a water bottle extender to give another 50ish percent of range. It feels like a normal mountain bike whereas on a full power one you really feel the weight and feels to me like a different form of mountain biking. It is also a pain when trying to lift them into the boot or over styles.
I m 50 and was 122kg, now down to 106 and aiming to get into double digits. You do feel like you ve still had a workout.
Try a couple and see how you get on.
Oh and stick to a big brand and have no worries about batteries. The ones you see on fires are always dodgy Chinese cheap ones
Thanks - I didn’t realise there were two types. I’ll have to look into that.Mid power tend to be around half the power and have smaller batteries. So weigh less. I ve just bought a Trek Fuel exe 9.7. It is on sale for 3.2, down from over £7k. It weighs under 19kg and power wise it feels like 2 of me on full power. It should do 20 miles on a mix of the 3 settings (all configurable in the app). The motor is silent and no drag when you hit 15mph and motor stops assisting. For your budget you could add a water bottle extender to give another 50ish percent of range. It feels like a normal mountain bike whereas on a full power one you really feel the weight and feels to me like a different form of mountain biking. It is also a pain when trying to lift them into the boot or over styles.
I m 50 and was 122kg, now down to 106 and aiming to get into double digits. You do feel like you ve still had a workout.
Try a couple and see how you get on.
Oh and stick to a big brand and have no worries about batteries. The ones you see on fires are always dodgy Chinese cheap ones
Edited by Stumpysid on Thursday 5th March 20:56
Yes I definitely want full-suspension (I switched from hardtail in about 1997!)
I’m currently around 77-79kg, probably about 5kg heavier than when I last seriously did MTBing.
I found this video have a good comparison. It’s personal preference, I can see why some would want full power. I wanted some help but s wanted to feel like I’d had a good workout.
https://youtu.be/OH_zpKxuK2Y?si=87zQ4BkPOzX_5Mtm
https://youtu.be/OH_zpKxuK2Y?si=87zQ4BkPOzX_5Mtm
I got back into mountain biking in my 40s and when I hit 50 I’ve got an ebike . It’s been superb. The way I look at it if you could cover more distance and more miles in the same time out riding so I don’t ride any less but I ride further. Sure the heavy climbs are a lot easier but it’s also a lot of fun to ride faster up hills and me and my pals have a great time.
If you like riding distance, I’d go for a full mountain bike bike with a 750 W battery and a Bosch motor. They seem to be the safest with the least issues and mine will do 70 miles in the summer and about 50 in the winter which is all you never need.
It’s not easy to ride new ones and you could waste a lot of time, I would just buy a mainstream bike and potentially go buy one used, go to your local bike shops this weekend and you’ll be surprised how much you’re learn in half an hour with them and maybe they’ll sell a bargain. I paid four grand for a cube stereo with a Bosch 750 battery and my friend just bought a Mondraker similar bike for 3.5k both brand-new so it’s doable but 2.5k will get you a decent used one as they do depreciate fairly quickly because new technology is coming all the time. Just crack on and get one and get out on the trails, you’ll love it.
If you like riding distance, I’d go for a full mountain bike bike with a 750 W battery and a Bosch motor. They seem to be the safest with the least issues and mine will do 70 miles in the summer and about 50 in the winter which is all you never need.
It’s not easy to ride new ones and you could waste a lot of time, I would just buy a mainstream bike and potentially go buy one used, go to your local bike shops this weekend and you’ll be surprised how much you’re learn in half an hour with them and maybe they’ll sell a bargain. I paid four grand for a cube stereo with a Bosch 750 battery and my friend just bought a Mondraker similar bike for 3.5k both brand-new so it’s doable but 2.5k will get you a decent used one as they do depreciate fairly quickly because new technology is coming all the time. Just crack on and get one and get out on the trails, you’ll love it.
interstellar said:
If you like riding distance, I d go for a full mountain bike bike with a 750 W battery and a Bosch motor. They seem to be the safest with the least issues and mine will do 70 miles in the summer and about 50 in the winter which is all you never need.
That's really interesting you see a difference in range between winter and summer. I got my first ebike in Nov and can manage ~1250m of climbing over approx 30km with my 600watt battery, I'm hoping I'll get a little more distance when the weather warms up. scz4 said:
interstellar said:
If you like riding distance, I d go for a full mountain bike bike with a 750 W battery and a Bosch motor. They seem to be the safest with the least issues and mine will do 70 miles in the summer and about 50 in the winter which is all you never need.
That's really interesting you see a difference in range between winter and summer. I got my first ebike in Nov and can manage ~1250m of climbing over approx 30km with my 600watt battery, I'm hoping I'll get a little more distance when the weather warms up. I started riding MTB quite late, but really got into it. Where I live now is stupid hilly, I used to live near Rivington and that was flat compared to what I have to deal with now. E-bikes changed everything. You still get a good workout, but you’ve always got something to help you out of it gets too much so you ride further and more frequently IME.
The bikes are heavy. I can get mine in my car with the front wheel removed, but it’s much, much harder than my non e-bike Stumpy. I’ve never had any issues with range. I’ve got a 750kw battery in a substantial Mondraker Level RR and can squeeze 100km on a 2000m elevation ride, but that’s hard work and does involve a lot of use of Eco. The multiple modes like Auto, eMTB and especially Turbo will kill your range.
I don’t see an issue with a refurbished bike, other than the tech is moving on at pace and what seemed cutting edge 5 years ago is very much old school now when it comes to battery weight and range.
My view is do it. You won’t regret it and being out is better than sitting at home. All the noise around cheat bikes etc is bravado and nonsense, you’ll get a work out, just it will definitely be enjoyable rather than put you off.
The bikes are heavy. I can get mine in my car with the front wheel removed, but it’s much, much harder than my non e-bike Stumpy. I’ve never had any issues with range. I’ve got a 750kw battery in a substantial Mondraker Level RR and can squeeze 100km on a 2000m elevation ride, but that’s hard work and does involve a lot of use of Eco. The multiple modes like Auto, eMTB and especially Turbo will kill your range.
I don’t see an issue with a refurbished bike, other than the tech is moving on at pace and what seemed cutting edge 5 years ago is very much old school now when it comes to battery weight and range.
My view is do it. You won’t regret it and being out is better than sitting at home. All the noise around cheat bikes etc is bravado and nonsense, you’ll get a work out, just it will definitely be enjoyable rather than put you off.
interstellar said:
It s not easy to ride new ones and you could waste a lot of time, I would just buy a mainstream bike and potentially go buy one used, go to your local bike shops this weekend and you ll be surprised how much you re learn in half an hour with them
Thanks - what do you mean when you say it’s not easy to ride new ones?Thanks all.
As suggested the idea was to buy a used one, but I’d like to select a couple of candidates so that if I call at a shop and they happen to have one, I can buy without thinking too much about it - hence the questions.
I believe that the longer (for me) routes of 20 miles or so would be just fine for what I want to do. At least that’s a benchmark distance for an average Dark Peak ride to judge battery requirements. If further is possible that’s great, but if I’m honest after a few hours in the saddle, that was enough and I’d be wanting to do something else. Maybe the reduced effort would change that.
I always thought that e-bikes were cheating a bit in terms of trying to get fitter, but As people have said - for me - it’s now got the stage where it’s that or realistically not going out at all on an MTB. I can’t accept that yet! There are folks at work far younger and much fitter who swear by eMTBs, so I’ve no issue with them from that viewpoint.
I think also what’s been said about pace of development also fits in with my idea of getting a used one at a sensible price, then in a few years time it’s not such a big hit if things move on significantly.
Thanks again for the useful comments.
As suggested the idea was to buy a used one, but I’d like to select a couple of candidates so that if I call at a shop and they happen to have one, I can buy without thinking too much about it - hence the questions.
I believe that the longer (for me) routes of 20 miles or so would be just fine for what I want to do. At least that’s a benchmark distance for an average Dark Peak ride to judge battery requirements. If further is possible that’s great, but if I’m honest after a few hours in the saddle, that was enough and I’d be wanting to do something else. Maybe the reduced effort would change that.
I always thought that e-bikes were cheating a bit in terms of trying to get fitter, but As people have said - for me - it’s now got the stage where it’s that or realistically not going out at all on an MTB. I can’t accept that yet! There are folks at work far younger and much fitter who swear by eMTBs, so I’ve no issue with them from that viewpoint.
I think also what’s been said about pace of development also fits in with my idea of getting a used one at a sensible price, then in a few years time it’s not such a big hit if things move on significantly.
Thanks again for the useful comments.
E-bikes are a game changer, but - they are heavy, if you were a bunnyhopping/manual rolling /jibbing type of rider then the weight dulls playability. They are more sit and plough through stuff.
The extra weight of them does make suspension work better (sprung vs unsprung mass).
Geometry has changed massively in 20years. All bikes are a lot longer with far slacker head angles and steep seat tubes. I own a HelloDave and it’s mental how long and slack it is. The extra length of bikes nowadays gives you stability and room to move around the bike but you do need to adjust riding style to suit.
Components. Dropper seat posts are the biggest change and a necessity. Shimano have been overtaken by Sram and are fitted to more bikes. Front derailleurs no longer exist thankfully!
Avoid Shimano motors - they can’t be repaired outside of warranty unlike Bosch/Brose etc
Wheel sizes have changed - 26” doesn’t exist, 27.5” came and went, 29” is now the standard with some mullets 29”f / 27.5”r
Find a shop with a test fleet and have a ride on as many as you can.
The extra weight of them does make suspension work better (sprung vs unsprung mass).
Geometry has changed massively in 20years. All bikes are a lot longer with far slacker head angles and steep seat tubes. I own a HelloDave and it’s mental how long and slack it is. The extra length of bikes nowadays gives you stability and room to move around the bike but you do need to adjust riding style to suit.
Components. Dropper seat posts are the biggest change and a necessity. Shimano have been overtaken by Sram and are fitted to more bikes. Front derailleurs no longer exist thankfully!
Avoid Shimano motors - they can’t be repaired outside of warranty unlike Bosch/Brose etc
Wheel sizes have changed - 26” doesn’t exist, 27.5” came and went, 29” is now the standard with some mullets 29”f / 27.5”r
Find a shop with a test fleet and have a ride on as many as you can.
dr_gn said:
interstellar said:
It s not easy to ride new ones and you could waste a lot of time, I would just buy a mainstream bike and potentially go buy one used, go to your local bike shops this weekend and you ll be surprised how much you re learn in half an hour with them
Thanks - what do you mean when you say it s not easy to ride new ones?interstellar said:
dr_gn said:
interstellar said:
It s not easy to ride new ones and you could waste a lot of time, I would just buy a mainstream bike and potentially go buy one used, go to your local bike shops this weekend and you ll be surprised how much you re learn in half an hour with them
Thanks - what do you mean when you say it s not easy to ride new ones?RustyNissanPrairie said:
E-bikes are a game changer, but - they are heavy, if you were a bunnyhopping/manual rolling /jibbing type of rider then the weight dulls playability. They are more sit and plough through stuff.
The extra weight of them does make suspension work better (sprung vs unsprung mass).
Geometry has changed massively in 20years. All bikes are a lot longer with far slacker head angles and steep seat tubes. I own a HelloDave and it s mental how long and slack it is. The extra length of bikes nowadays gives you stability and room to move around the bike but you do need to adjust riding style to suit.
Components. Dropper seat posts are the biggest change and a necessity. Shimano have been overtaken by Sram and are fitted to more bikes. Front derailleurs no longer exist thankfully!
Avoid Shimano motors - they can t be repaired outside of warranty unlike Bosch/Brose etc
Wheel sizes have changed - 26 doesn t exist, 27.5 came and went, 29 is now the standard with some mullets 29 f / 27.5 r
Find a shop with a test fleet and have a ride on as many as you can.
Thanks. I d describe the riding I d be doing as cross-country. Having said that, many of my favourite rides have - for me - some significant rocky downhill bits. I suppose I was fairly light, and I often found that with an acceptable spring rate for the less rocky flatter bits of the ride, I got thrown about a lot on the rocky downhills. Maybe the extra weight of the bike might help a bit there. Also, with the same rocky downhills I often found my fingers and forearms tended to go numb due to hanging on so tight.The extra weight of them does make suspension work better (sprung vs unsprung mass).
Geometry has changed massively in 20years. All bikes are a lot longer with far slacker head angles and steep seat tubes. I own a HelloDave and it s mental how long and slack it is. The extra length of bikes nowadays gives you stability and room to move around the bike but you do need to adjust riding style to suit.
Components. Dropper seat posts are the biggest change and a necessity. Shimano have been overtaken by Sram and are fitted to more bikes. Front derailleurs no longer exist thankfully!
Avoid Shimano motors - they can t be repaired outside of warranty unlike Bosch/Brose etc
Wheel sizes have changed - 26 doesn t exist, 27.5 came and went, 29 is now the standard with some mullets 29 f / 27.5 r
Find a shop with a test fleet and have a ride on as many as you can.
Edited by dr_gn on Thursday 5th March 23:09
Thanks all.
It's sounding like I'll be getting one, since there appears to be few downsides. Seems like the "full" ones would be better overall for me. I think I'll try and do some demos (as suggested).
It would be ideal if I could test one on the longest route. I'll call in at Trek and ask them. Maybe start with a Powerfly since someone suggested it at work.
It's sounding like I'll be getting one, since there appears to be few downsides. Seems like the "full" ones would be better overall for me. I think I'll try and do some demos (as suggested).
It would be ideal if I could test one on the longest route. I'll call in at Trek and ask them. Maybe start with a Powerfly since someone suggested it at work.
Mybe too late to the conversation but my advice would be research the motors. Watch GMBN, etc to get an idea of which motor you like the sound of best. You can then pick from bikes that have that. IMO, Bosch is the one to go for, but your decision might be different.
Check for features like power delivery, etc but also consider warranty, how hard are repairs, what does the userbase think of them and so on.
Check for features like power delivery, etc but also consider warranty, how hard are repairs, what does the userbase think of them and so on.
You might want to have a look at what these people have
https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/
Nowhere near you? Perhaps they have a stockist nearer. I have 2 Oxygen electric bikes, one is a folder. They are good quality.
Edit.
Oxygen are in South Yorkshire - is that near you?
https://www.oxygenbicycles.com/
https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/
Nowhere near you? Perhaps they have a stockist nearer. I have 2 Oxygen electric bikes, one is a folder. They are good quality.
Edit.
Oxygen are in South Yorkshire - is that near you?
https://www.oxygenbicycles.com/
Edited by The Mad Monk on Friday 6th March 12:19
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