Want GT3 but would Turbo S be better
Discussion
I have a base 992.1 and as 992.2 GT3 is meant to be more useable on normal roads was thinking about buying one. There isn’t much premium on high spec nearly new cars maybe upto £5k but those with a lower spec seem to be at a premium of £20-£25k. Issue is I don’t want bucket seats or roll bar as only plan to use on road and perhaps odd road trip and almost all now have bucket seats. Looks like will have to focus on Touring when really wanted Wing.
Then watched a few YouTube clips and coming to the conclusion that with fidgety steering, cabin noise, limited performance below 5,000 rpm that a Turbo S is probably better especially if will do say 5000 miles a year inc. on motorway. The problem is I much prefer the idea of a naturally aspirated engine! Did think about an F8 but mindful of running costs once maintenance package expires and depreciation per mile used is much higher.
Any thoughts on likely premiums on new Turbo S? Think deliveries start in May.
Interested in others experience between Carrera / GT3 / Turbo S
Then watched a few YouTube clips and coming to the conclusion that with fidgety steering, cabin noise, limited performance below 5,000 rpm that a Turbo S is probably better especially if will do say 5000 miles a year inc. on motorway. The problem is I much prefer the idea of a naturally aspirated engine! Did think about an F8 but mindful of running costs once maintenance package expires and depreciation per mile used is much higher.
Any thoughts on likely premiums on new Turbo S? Think deliveries start in May.
Interested in others experience between Carrera / GT3 / Turbo S
I’d like a 992 or a low miles 991/.2Prices are really varied. It seems most buy from dealers. Seen a lovely, highly specced 991.2 T with ceramics and low miles but the seller wants £80k. CAP is £58k.
992 has similarly massive spread with everyone asking way beyond trade values, even in private sales. Must be tough for dealers to buy stock in.
I’m in the classifieds twice a day looking for, ideally, a low owner car with low miles. Priced a bit over trade. Unlike seemingly everyone else, I don’t want a GT car. Nor a Turbo. Nor a GTS. Just a Carrera Coupe or Cab.
The only cars I can see available are mega money, mostly at dealers.
992 has similarly massive spread with everyone asking way beyond trade values, even in private sales. Must be tough for dealers to buy stock in.
I’m in the classifieds twice a day looking for, ideally, a low owner car with low miles. Priced a bit over trade. Unlike seemingly everyone else, I don’t want a GT car. Nor a Turbo. Nor a GTS. Just a Carrera Coupe or Cab.
The only cars I can see available are mega money, mostly at dealers.
I don’t think anyone is selling a car just over trade unless there’s a need to get shot for other factors, personal or otherwise.
We’re just entering spring, prices will solidify, maybe rise a little.
The dealers have costs, there’s always going to be a strong margin there.
To the OP’s question, go drive them, that’s the only way you’ll find out. They have materially different characters.
We’re just entering spring, prices will solidify, maybe rise a little.
The dealers have costs, there’s always going to be a strong margin there.
To the OP’s question, go drive them, that’s the only way you’ll find out. They have materially different characters.
Only person that can really answer it OP is you…you’d probably know within 15 minutes of driving each car.
A lot depends on how you use it.
Some people get bored of a Turbo S (too powerful/too clinical/too capable)…some people find a GT3 too much. I’d say you have to respect a GT3 more especially if it’s cold/wet.
I wouldn’t discount a 992.1 GT3…well set up suspension can make a big difference.
A lot depends on how you use it.
Some people get bored of a Turbo S (too powerful/too clinical/too capable)…some people find a GT3 too much. I’d say you have to respect a GT3 more especially if it’s cold/wet.
I wouldn’t discount a 992.1 GT3…well set up suspension can make a big difference.
I've never driven either yet, but there was a short run of comments telling me I'd be better off with a used Turbo S than the GT3 Touring I'm expecting in May. (All from the same person, I hasten to add. But he did make some good points. They turned out not to be that relevant to me.)
Naturally aspirated can't compete with turbo for low-mid engine speed torque, but then it more than makes up for it with crisp response with a few revs on. The question for me is whether I want something a bit more track oriented, a bit bumpier, a bit more raw. Or do I want a ridiculously competent and quick "executive express" with 4WD, and ludicrous grip in almost all conditions. I'm very much a 3-pedal kind of person, and I don't mind the occasional excuse to press the clutch pedal and stir the gear lever on the motorway. It sounds like we'll be doing similar mileage, and probably not dissimilar use. I'll be daily in mine whenever I can.
I just can't imagine a Turbo S in my workshop or parking spot at work. So I'm very firmly set on a GT3 Touring, as I don't want another car with a wing. It will likely be a lot less noisy on the motorway than my GT4 RS at least. I'll be changing it over to more road oriented tyres, and possibly softer springs, so I get a better daily driving experience in general road and weather conditions. I might track it occasionally, but that's not going to be its main purpose.
I just want a car that will put a smile on my face going to work on a sunny morning. Best for that so far was my old 981 GT4. I think it could also be a 992.2 GT3 Touring. My gut feel is that if you're asking the question, it might be wing and PDK for you, but you may well come to the same conclusion.
Liam
Naturally aspirated can't compete with turbo for low-mid engine speed torque, but then it more than makes up for it with crisp response with a few revs on. The question for me is whether I want something a bit more track oriented, a bit bumpier, a bit more raw. Or do I want a ridiculously competent and quick "executive express" with 4WD, and ludicrous grip in almost all conditions. I'm very much a 3-pedal kind of person, and I don't mind the occasional excuse to press the clutch pedal and stir the gear lever on the motorway. It sounds like we'll be doing similar mileage, and probably not dissimilar use. I'll be daily in mine whenever I can.
I just can't imagine a Turbo S in my workshop or parking spot at work. So I'm very firmly set on a GT3 Touring, as I don't want another car with a wing. It will likely be a lot less noisy on the motorway than my GT4 RS at least. I'll be changing it over to more road oriented tyres, and possibly softer springs, so I get a better daily driving experience in general road and weather conditions. I might track it occasionally, but that's not going to be its main purpose.
I just want a car that will put a smile on my face going to work on a sunny morning. Best for that so far was my old 981 GT4. I think it could also be a 992.2 GT3 Touring. My gut feel is that if you're asking the question, it might be wing and PDK for you, but you may well come to the same conclusion.
Liam
BlueFog said:
Interested in others experience between Carrera / GT3 / Turbo S
Not quite what you re looking at, but I had a 981 GT4 clubsport (buckets, harnesses, half cage) and then a 991.1 turbo S. The GT4 was fun. For a while. It s a track car adapted for the road. Long term: the road noise, engine noise, gearbox and suspension, all of which make it seem epic on first acquaintance, become quite wearing. No one in the family liked being a passenger in it and it was very much a car for me to drive on fast A and B roads and not much else.
I ve had a 996 turbo and expected the 991 turbo S to be a bit dull. I ended up concluding it s the most complete car I ve ever owned. It s grown up, composed, refined, and blistering quick. I ran it alongside a V12VS, and whilst they are both very quick cars, the turbo S is noticeably quicker and A to B is just unfeasibly fast. I struggle to conceive of how a 992 could be materially better but I m sure it is.
If you need to scratch the GT itch, then that s just something you have to deal with one way or another. But my experience left me not remotely hankering to find out what a GT3 would be like.
(I only sold the turbo S because I wasn t using both it and the V12VS enough to justify keeping both, and the Porsche was easier to shift).
Edited by BlackTails on Sunday 1st March 23:01
I just traded in a 992.1 Turbo S after a year for a 992.2 GT3 Touring.
I knew within minutes it was the right choice for me. It’s loud - sounds like everything is broken(!), I love the heavier steering; it’s all just far more intense. I’m genuinely excited thinking about the next drive.
Turbo S was incredible and I liked it a lot but it felt like a very fast Tesla in comparison to the GT3. This sounds negative - it’s not, it was brilliant at what it does but in comparison to the GT3 (for me anyway) it wasn’t as exciting and I never once really wanted to go out just for a drive.
I got the Turbo thinking I’d use it frequently. But for me it turned out that I didn’t want to take it out in bad weather or when I needed to use car parks as it was so expensive and I feared dings etc. I’m not worried about the depreciation per se, I just didn’t think it was a sensible daily. Since it wasn’t exciting (the fast Tesla analogy) I didn’t really use it as much as I’d hoped and therefore I changed to GT3.
So far, the GT3 is so different and so much more of an event. I think you could daily it if you were so inclined but I wouldn’t (I’ve gone old and wouldn’t fancy cold dark mornings on greasy roads and I think the noise would grate on hour long commutes) but I do think I’ll take out for early morning blasts.
If you try both, I’d recommend you drive the Turbo first.
I knew within minutes it was the right choice for me. It’s loud - sounds like everything is broken(!), I love the heavier steering; it’s all just far more intense. I’m genuinely excited thinking about the next drive.
Turbo S was incredible and I liked it a lot but it felt like a very fast Tesla in comparison to the GT3. This sounds negative - it’s not, it was brilliant at what it does but in comparison to the GT3 (for me anyway) it wasn’t as exciting and I never once really wanted to go out just for a drive.
I got the Turbo thinking I’d use it frequently. But for me it turned out that I didn’t want to take it out in bad weather or when I needed to use car parks as it was so expensive and I feared dings etc. I’m not worried about the depreciation per se, I just didn’t think it was a sensible daily. Since it wasn’t exciting (the fast Tesla analogy) I didn’t really use it as much as I’d hoped and therefore I changed to GT3.
So far, the GT3 is so different and so much more of an event. I think you could daily it if you were so inclined but I wouldn’t (I’ve gone old and wouldn’t fancy cold dark mornings on greasy roads and I think the noise would grate on hour long commutes) but I do think I’ll take out for early morning blasts.
If you try both, I’d recommend you drive the Turbo first.
Edited by Abtj on Sunday 1st March 23:59
I have a 992.1 Turbos. I have never driven a gt3
Personally I would not really want a 992.2 turbo s. Hybrid has gone down badly with Ferrari and Lamborghini as people just don't want them. The 911 is a mild hybrid but ...
Electric turbos on rennlist have given issues.
You have a load of Nannie's that are staggeringly irritating ( any hire car I have spends it life beeping ).
The 992.1 performance is so staggering I think we we now beyond more power having any noticeable difference. I have had the turbo and turbo s on track and you really can't tell the apart. Another few bhp when you have 650 of them in the first place is not really any practical use.
The gt3 seem to be being dummed down in th 992.2 world which is a shame but it is basically a track car. The turbo s is comfortable for long euro trips and now mine has been soundproofed and new tyres pretty quiet as well
.
Personally I would not really want a 992.2 turbo s. Hybrid has gone down badly with Ferrari and Lamborghini as people just don't want them. The 911 is a mild hybrid but ...
Electric turbos on rennlist have given issues.
You have a load of Nannie's that are staggeringly irritating ( any hire car I have spends it life beeping ).
The 992.1 performance is so staggering I think we we now beyond more power having any noticeable difference. I have had the turbo and turbo s on track and you really can't tell the apart. Another few bhp when you have 650 of them in the first place is not really any practical use.
The gt3 seem to be being dummed down in th 992.2 world which is a shame but it is basically a track car. The turbo s is comfortable for long euro trips and now mine has been soundproofed and new tyres pretty quiet as well
.
LRDefender said:
If you get a Turbo you ll always longingly look at a GT and think maybe
Car buying has a lot to do with how we feel, a decision made with emotion if you like.
Get the GT, wait for the right one and you ll be happy. Choose the Turbo and you ll still hanker after a GT.
that is my view as well. Also, if the GT car does not work you can probably sell it with a less painful loss than a Turbo S and switch .Car buying has a lot to do with how we feel, a decision made with emotion if you like.
Get the GT, wait for the right one and you ll be happy. Choose the Turbo and you ll still hanker after a GT.
Edit to add: And I do think an F8 would likely feel more special than either of those cars, esp. if the GT is not a manual
Edited by MDL111 on Monday 2nd March 07:46
The timing of JayEmm's video on the 992 GT3 was timely the other day, where he talks about the pros and cons (link below). I'm in the position where I currently own a 992.1 GTS, one which I specced from new and have owned now for 3 years. It has a very sporty spec, almost GT3 like spec: Aerokit, Lightweight package, Rear Axle Steering, Front Axle lift, lots of carbon, and so on... Last week I was randomly contacted by my Porsche dealer asking me if I'd like to sell my car to them as there is demand, and to potentially part exchange for a 992 GT3, they have a 5 months old 992.2 GT3 and a 2 year old 992.1 GT3, both with decent specs.
I love my 992 GTS, it's PDK 2WD and very very fast indeed, max torque comes in at circa 1800 rpm and revs out like a N/A car. It just seems perfect. Porsche quote 480bhp, but most cars tested on dynos have shown it is circa 500bhp plus. So in the real world, point to point it is faster than a GT3, apart from on track where the GT3 would shine. My dilemma is, if I swapped to a GT3, would I regret it for a few reasons, namely:
1) Would I miss the low down torque and acceleration of the GTS which is a 3.0 Twin Turbo? The GT3 as Jay said needs properly revving out to get it going.
2) Would I find the GT3 too stiff for our roads? My GTS is already stiff enough as it has the same suspension setup as a 992.1 Turbo S with the helper springs at the rear.
3) Interior is exactly the same, I have the GTS Interior Carbon Pack, so lots of Alcantara/Race-Tex, so would it even feel like an upgrade?
4) For the extra out-lay, I'm talking at least an extra £60k, would it be worth to change the car?
I think I know the answers deep down if I think about it sensibly, and Jay's review here seems very honest and what I've always kind of felt in my mind already. In my GTS, I do at least one Euro trip a year including the Ring, and one or two UK track days per year, and the car always performs well, it does everything so brilliantly. It is my special car and not my daily (981 Cayman is my daily), mainly used for nice drive outs on the weekend and road trips wherever possible, Wales, Peaks District, Scotland etc..
Like the OP, thoughts and feedback will be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNe-1l0T_A4&t=...
I love my 992 GTS, it's PDK 2WD and very very fast indeed, max torque comes in at circa 1800 rpm and revs out like a N/A car. It just seems perfect. Porsche quote 480bhp, but most cars tested on dynos have shown it is circa 500bhp plus. So in the real world, point to point it is faster than a GT3, apart from on track where the GT3 would shine. My dilemma is, if I swapped to a GT3, would I regret it for a few reasons, namely:
1) Would I miss the low down torque and acceleration of the GTS which is a 3.0 Twin Turbo? The GT3 as Jay said needs properly revving out to get it going.
2) Would I find the GT3 too stiff for our roads? My GTS is already stiff enough as it has the same suspension setup as a 992.1 Turbo S with the helper springs at the rear.
3) Interior is exactly the same, I have the GTS Interior Carbon Pack, so lots of Alcantara/Race-Tex, so would it even feel like an upgrade?
4) For the extra out-lay, I'm talking at least an extra £60k, would it be worth to change the car?
I think I know the answers deep down if I think about it sensibly, and Jay's review here seems very honest and what I've always kind of felt in my mind already. In my GTS, I do at least one Euro trip a year including the Ring, and one or two UK track days per year, and the car always performs well, it does everything so brilliantly. It is my special car and not my daily (981 Cayman is my daily), mainly used for nice drive outs on the weekend and road trips wherever possible, Wales, Peaks District, Scotland etc..
Like the OP, thoughts and feedback will be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNe-1l0T_A4&t=...
Edited by Schuey_911 on Monday 2nd March 09:44
I think only you know if you prefer torque vs needing to rev the engine.
I only have experience of 997 generation C2S vs RS and to me it made a huge difference in terms of how the car feels [but a lot of that is probably the bucket seats and cage plus the much better sound, pure performance less relevant on the road].
60k is clearly a lot, but I'd more look at total ownership cost - I am not sure the GT3 will lose more money in absolute terms than the GTS in terms of depreciation from today forward (obviously depends a bit on how good the deal to trade is)
I only have experience of 997 generation C2S vs RS and to me it made a huge difference in terms of how the car feels [but a lot of that is probably the bucket seats and cage plus the much better sound, pure performance less relevant on the road].
60k is clearly a lot, but I'd more look at total ownership cost - I am not sure the GT3 will lose more money in absolute terms than the GTS in terms of depreciation from today forward (obviously depends a bit on how good the deal to trade is)
Schuey_911 said:
Like the OP, thoughts and feedback will be appreciated.
In your shoes, I would 1. Assume cynically that they have a buyer lined up already for your GTS, and know that their two GT3s may take some time to shift off their forecourt - ie they are acting in their interests and not primarily doing you a favour.
2. Assume that they would not do you a good deal on the trade in of your GTS.
3. If you're OK with points 1 and 2 though ask them to lend you whichever of the GT3s you prefer for an extended weekend test drive, and work out for yourself whether the change is to your taste. And if they won't oblige, that would make me pass on their overture.
From what you've said though, your GTS is "just so" and it strikes me as unusual to swap a just so car for an unknown aspirational car at a cost of >£60k.
BlackTails said:
In your shoes, I would
1. Assume cynically that they have a buyer lined up already for your GTS, and know that their two GT3s may take some time to shift off their forecourt - ie they are acting in their interests and not primarily doing you a favour.
2. Assume that they would not do you a good deal on the trade in of your GTS.
3. If you're OK with points 1 and 2 though ask them to lend you whichever of the GT3s you prefer for an extended weekend test drive, and work out for yourself whether the change is to your taste. And if they won't oblige, that would make me pass on their overture.
From what you've said though, your GTS is "just so" and it strikes me as unusual to swap a just so car for an unknown aspirational car at a cost of >£60k.
This is very helpful and something to factor into consideration. I think you have helped answer my questions and I'm better off keeping what I have. I'll wait till they get back to me with what they have to offer, as I certainly won't be chasing them. Thanks.1. Assume cynically that they have a buyer lined up already for your GTS, and know that their two GT3s may take some time to shift off their forecourt - ie they are acting in their interests and not primarily doing you a favour.
2. Assume that they would not do you a good deal on the trade in of your GTS.
3. If you're OK with points 1 and 2 though ask them to lend you whichever of the GT3s you prefer for an extended weekend test drive, and work out for yourself whether the change is to your taste. And if they won't oblige, that would make me pass on their overture.
From what you've said though, your GTS is "just so" and it strikes me as unusual to swap a just so car for an unknown aspirational car at a cost of >£60k.
MDL111 said:
I think only you know if you prefer torque vs needing to rev the engine.
I only have experience of 997 generation C2S vs RS and to me it made a huge difference in terms of how the car feels [but a lot of that is probably the bucket seats and cage plus the much better sound, pure performance less relevant on the road].
60k is clearly a lot, but I'd more look at total ownership cost - I am not sure the GT3 will lose more money in absolute terms than the GTS in terms of depreciation from today forward (obviously depends a bit on how good the deal to trade is)
Thanks, again some valid points.I only have experience of 997 generation C2S vs RS and to me it made a huge difference in terms of how the car feels [but a lot of that is probably the bucket seats and cage plus the much better sound, pure performance less relevant on the road].
60k is clearly a lot, but I'd more look at total ownership cost - I am not sure the GT3 will lose more money in absolute terms than the GTS in terms of depreciation from today forward (obviously depends a bit on how good the deal to trade is)
I have ran a few 911 Turbo s and GT3s as daily's over the years.They both go about things in different ways no one is the wrong one, it depends on its use case. With this new 992GT3 Tour and 992.2 ttts its a bit different, in so much as the new Turbo S is Hybrid and based on the past 15k miles i have done in a GTS Hybrids it puts right a few of the things i was not so keen on with the 992.1s one, the lack of lagg for one and sharper steering along with more the damping having a bigger range in comfort and sport. Not driven the new 992.2 tts but told its very good and a good step up over GTS Hybrid. This new 992.2 GT3 Tour is really very good, the steering and suspension as far as road 911s go is the best i have ever driven. If i had to pick one it would be the 992.2 GT3 but it have to have Bucket seats you feel so much more, and would have another set of wheels with Winters on..
I think your particular use cases and other vehicles you have access to are critical factors.
I have a 992.1 Turbo S Cab, and a SRS. I like my NA engines, and also have an R8 v10+. The SRS with its GT3 engine is by far the most visceral and exciting of the three. Conditions permitting, if wanting to go for a spirited drive there is no competition, SRS all the way. The "drive a GT3 and you will know within 15 minutes" comment is true, but only as an answer to this use case. The engine thrives on revs, its noisy and compared to the other cars tiring on long journeys; driving London to Scotland and it would be last choice (until I got to the highlands to find the weather was glorious!)
Perhaps there are 2 cars that would fit the bill better than one? I have an M3 Comp Touring as my daily, and if I had to distill the fleet down to just 2 vehicles, it is this and the SRS which would stay.
I have a 992.1 Turbo S Cab, and a SRS. I like my NA engines, and also have an R8 v10+. The SRS with its GT3 engine is by far the most visceral and exciting of the three. Conditions permitting, if wanting to go for a spirited drive there is no competition, SRS all the way. The "drive a GT3 and you will know within 15 minutes" comment is true, but only as an answer to this use case. The engine thrives on revs, its noisy and compared to the other cars tiring on long journeys; driving London to Scotland and it would be last choice (until I got to the highlands to find the weather was glorious!)
Perhaps there are 2 cars that would fit the bill better than one? I have an M3 Comp Touring as my daily, and if I had to distill the fleet down to just 2 vehicles, it is this and the SRS which would stay.
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